Premier (vanishing) Windscreen PCN - Parked in Disabled Bay Without Displaying a Valid Disabled Badge

[Guest]

I’m sure you guys have heard of them..

 

My mother is 75 and having increasingly painful mobility issues, mainly with her knees which are starting to develop arthritis. I drive her around a lot when I am here and when we visit shops IF she feels like coming in we use the disabled parking spaces.

 

She doesn’t have a disabled badge (something we are going to look in to now) because it’s only recently she has started having these problems as she is getting old.

 

I park there because I get told where to park and I always assumed that unless there is a sign specifically stating Blue Badge Holders only there is nothing that legally prevents me from using them for the sake of my mum - and also no legal right to enforce any fines.

 

I assumed they were for anyone to use who may need them, which they should be. As a customer I shouldn’t think my mum should need a certificate to allow her to park close to the entrance so she doesn’t have to walk far? But perhaps I am wrong there..

 

letter demanding £100 within 28 days and they were nice to reduce it to only £60 if paid within 14 days. 

 

I’m guessing I can write to them on behalf of my mum and say she doesn’t recognise the fine and no further correspondence etc. and get on with life but having checked some threads I am inclined to think ultimately the fight might have to end up dragged out and maybe go to court?

 

I expect my mum will just pay it rather than fight it - unless you amazing people here know any neat legal tricks?

 

I don’t remember seeing any signs stating Blue Badge Holders Only but that’s not say there weren’t any. 

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

As you're talking about Premier Park, I've moved you to the private parking forum.

 

Please don't contact anyone until the guys have had a look at what's happened.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

1st it is not a fine

2nd there is no such thing as disabled parking on private land , merely tarmac graffiti

3rd a BB means nothing on private land.

 

do not appeal tp them

 

please complete this:

 

 

dx

 

 

 

[Guest]

Thanks dx100uk and honeybee I was hoping someone would respond saying things like this

 

I’ll go through that questionnaire and post it here (I assume) when I have more time probably tomorrow

 

It’s a PCN and it’s in accord with the BPA

 

I also noticed at the bottom it says something along the lines of ignore and worry not going forward because this happened in SCOTLAND - something that seems to make a difference to the advice you are generously volunteering? 

 

I keep forgetting to mention this and that Scotland’s laws are different to England or the rest of the UK or both. So yeah anyway it happened in Scotland so does that mean just ignore?

 

Thing is with that - if my mum ends up receiving a string of increasingly threatening letters from them (which I have no doubt she will) then she will maybe get worried and cave. I’ll have to figure out how to deal with that going forward but if that’s the case I’ll make her aware that it’s likely to happen from the start - I would anticipate threats of increasing fines and court action etc..

Edited September 15, 2022 by Guest

[dx100uk]

oh god yes totally ignore if the car park is in scotland

 

there is no tort of trespass

nor pofa2012.

 

doubly do not appeal!!!

 

dx

 

[dx100uk]

in a normal situation you could dob yourself in as the driver, but as this is in scotland if you do that its hte one thing that might enable attempted prosecution, not that it would work but not worth the gamble

 

tell her its a scam . 

 

dx

 

[Guest]

Brilliant. You guy’s are super awesome.

 

I don’t quite understand the middley legalese paragraph there but I don’t think I need to and can probably decipher with the help of google

 

Something about no legal definition of civil misdemeanour in the context of trespass or something, and how the pofa2012 affects that - which was UK legislation?

 

You had me at “BB means nothing on private land” which is what more or less I assumed.

 

Anyway cheers. No appeals - copy that 

Edited September 16, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Guest]

 

Unless it was an AI algorithm sending out this letter I would have thought whoever processed this would have no trouble figuring out that the driver on this occasion (me) is the not registered owner of the car who the letter was sent to.

 

That going to be a problem?

 

I just go where she tells me - it’s her car and she nags me constantly, especially when parking at Tesco. I park in the disabled bays because she needs it, but also with the assumption that if a fine is issued she’s paying it - or not

Edited September 15, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary post quote removed

[dx100uk]

anpr are not cctv cameras.

 

it is not  FINE  its a speculative invoice!!

 

dx

 

[Guest]

OK then - it was my mum driving 

 

I take it no need to fill out that questionnaire and upload a redacted pdf of the letter then? 

 

Can do if you think I need to and it will help

 

I think my mum might not qualify for the BB actually she thinks - which is stupid because she has a genuine need to park close to shops now just not maybe as serious as other BB holders but there are usually plenty spaces spare - also probably means she will have to desist from using them from now on which is nothing short of a disgrace but that’s the world we live in these days I suppose 

[dx100uk]

doesnt matter even if she had a bb they mean nothing on private land.

 

tarmac markings on private land are purely tarmac graffiti..

 

please read what we take the time to post up,

 

dx

 

[Guest]

What makes you think I’m not?

Edited September 15, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[FTMDave]

This is the not the same company but the thread will give you an idea of what's likely to happen  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/427570-vcs-pcn-ntk-nicol-street-kirkcaldy-scotland-ky11-1ny/

 

The fleecers will threaten this and threaten that but ultimately do nothing.

 

Being in Scotland gives you a massive advantage.

 

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, whiteadder said:

she will have to desist from using them from now on which is nothing short of a disgrace but that’s the world we live in these days I suppose

 

[Guest]

Why

 

OK so no quoting posts (even if I trim it down to highlight what comments specifically I am responding to for clarity) but just quoting posts without adding anything is OK? I mean I really do try to follow the forum rules here and show my appreciation for the time you guys take to offer advice but what is that all about

 

Sounds like I got this in the bag - but if someone could indicate whether I should still post the questionnaire and sort out a redacted PDF of the the letter? (Now that it has been established it happened in Scotland)

[honeybee13]

Quoting the previous post makes threads much longer, especially for people using mobile phones, etc.

 

If you want to quote a specific sentence, you can copy and paste it onto your reply and either use inverted commas or make it italics.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

she will not have to stop using blue badge spaces on private land esp in SCOTLAND

they mean absolutely nothing.

 

for ref if you want , to help others, by popping up the Q's & PDF then please do.

 

dx

 

 

 

[Guest]

Copy that
 

I will sort out the questionnaire later

 

cheers 

 

Ok then here is the questionnaire you asked me to fill in - if it helps with what you are doing to build a case against this or whatever then the least I can do is oblige

 

However I have no clue what an NTK is so if someone can please enlighten me then I can complete the form properly - otherwise this is it with a one page PDF because I’m confined to an iPad currently and I struggle a bit with Apple’s weird iOS - I’ll post the back page in the next post (in PDF format as requested)

 

I’m sure NTK is really obvious but for some reason my brain isn’t connecting on that one - I tried a quick search and got “Need To know” so I figured I’d just come back and ask - I couldn’t see anywhere in the post explaining acronyms but maybe I didn’t look properly

 

Otherwise, here you go:

 

Please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 10/9/22

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] What’s an NTK

 

3 Date received 12/9/22
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] I don’t see anything in the letter if that what’s “NTK” refers to?
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

 

Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

6. Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? Premier Park

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Braehead Shopping Centre, Glasgow
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA

 

 

I noticed the post defines NTK as Notice To Keeper in the section that doesn’t apply to me which I didn’t read - unfortunately I’ve still no idea what that means so I can only assume I haven’t received one of these in which case why is the questionnaire asking me what date?

 

[dx100uk]

ah you see the story develops.

 

the pcn was issues for parking in a disabled bay without a BB.

well that now opens up the next problem for Premier....

wheres the windscreen ticket you must issue??

 

so as you've read in the sticky the notice to keeper for a windscreen ticket will arrive 29-56 days time.

but as they are treating this as an ANPR capture, they think they can break the rules of their body and issue a PCN as if its ANPR within 14 days.

 

another reason premier always lose.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Reading a site called Parking Cowboys - on the page about Notice To Keeper it says they can send them out if a windscreen parking ticket remains unpaid or ANPR - doesn’t say anything about time limits

 

Are you saying an NTK will arrive later?

 

Not sure what your saying but it sounds like you are saying they don’t have the right to issue a PCN within 14 days?

 

Maybe I’ll send a bill to Premier Parking for all the time I’m having to spend reading up on how my mum can just legally ignore them

[dx100uk]

no thats freeman of the land twaddle billing for your time.

 

if you go back and read the sticky, the various time limits are there already...

[Guest]

So they’re supposed to issue an NTK within 14 days for an ANPR - but they issued a PCN instead - which means they’ll automatically lose any court action on that alone if they decide to take things that far which they probably won’t? (Unless they also issue an NTK?)

 

It’s not clear to me in the sticky when it says the “NTK must be received within 14 days” whether that means they are obligated to send one - however I think (from what you are saying) that this is a legal requirement for issuing parking fines via ANPR?

 

Should we expect an NTK in the post at some point in the coming days then?

 

Also - what is “freeman of the land twaddle”? The Parking Cowboys website or me (jokingly) sending PP a bill for my time? Sorry it’s not clear to me what you’re referring to there and I am going to go back to that website for further reading but if you’re saying it’s twaddle then maybe I shouldn’t.

[dx100uk]

Wanting to bill them for your time is typical FmOtL twaddle 

 

If you read the sticky it gives timescales for when bogroll at differing stages is supposed to be sent out for the only 2 ways a speculative invoice can be be issued . By ANPR capture or a human warden.

 

They have mixed the time scales up for each because they wish to hide the fact they should have issued a windscreen speculative invoice at the time 

 

Most of it is purposely done because they have to find differing ways to scam people into paying them because the ticket was issued in Scotland.

 

There are no laws whatsoever that they can operate under on private land in Scotland that make their speculative invoices enforceable 

 

May last but one post explains the time scale, but just forget and ignore everything 

 

Dx

[Guest]

Ignore and forget - copy

 

Thing is it’s my mum who will have to do that going forward as she receives further letters, so I’m trying to wrap my head around the whole thing - need to read more of that Parking Cowboys site later so I can explain to her exactly when why she doesn’t need to worry the next times she receives more bog roll from them

[dx100uk]

why is it you just can never understand simple things explained on cag and have to go elsewhere?

 

the only thing you need to know is you are in scotland ... no such thing as tort of trespass, no such thing as protection of freedom act.

 

she should understand about the tort and the importance of the right to roam being scottish? she might even remember it happening??