PRA Letter of Claim - now Fast Track claimform - 2000 barclaycard debt - now n244

[RobinB4nk]

Hello all.

Im hoping you may be able to help. My brother confided recently to me that he has managed to get into an unbelievable amount of debt (relative to income). He explained to me that he believed the only way out for him was insolvency.

Once he told me the amounts, especially Barclaycard, i was just in shock and told him that i believe they've lent irresponsibly.

I started a complaint and after a load of nonsense from Barclaycard it is now been investigated by the ombudsman of which we are awaiting their findings.

Due to escalating debt he was unable to maintain payments and he stopped paying them. He was defaulted and the debt has sold to PRA Group, and they have now sent a letter giving 30 day or they'll consider it for legal action.

The card was taken out about 2000-2001 and the debt stands at about 16k. Now when i was complaining to Barclaycard it was pretty clear they have no idea about the account and his personal circumstances and i personally don't think they have a signed agreement.

So my question is, what should i do next?

look forward to hearing from you, it is most appreciated. 

[RobinB4nk]

Thanks andy, sry for the wrong posting, will have a good read through.

many thanks

[RobinB4nk]

Hi,

No, he's not had a loc with a pack. The last letter states “if we don't hear from you by 20 aug, then your account will be considered for the next stage which would be putting you on notice that court proceedings may be brought against you”

 

obviously he’s worried about the escalation to court.

 

should i just send a cca request as per your advised post?

[RobinB4nk]

Ok, we’ll hold off! Yeah, he’ll need a drink! But he sure will be pleased you guys are on the case! Thank you sooo much.

 

yeah, address all in order, not moved.

 

will let you know when the next correspondence comes through.

 

many thanks

[RobinB4nk]

Hi all,

Well looks like the next stage has happened, pls see attached 'letter before claim' which came with form. Also arrived was a summary letter.

 looks like I now follow Andyroch advice above?

Many Thanks in advance

 

2022-08-22 PRA LOC.pdf

[RobinB4nk]

will do! wow! super speedy response, thank you!

[RobinB4nk]

hi everyone,

keeping you up to date.

followed advice with cca and form, now received PRA holding letter attached. so looks like we just wait now and see what they come up with?

many thanks

2022-09-22 PRA CCA Response - Ac on hold.pdf

[RobinB4nk]

lol, u crack me up. really appreciate your positivity,  many thanks.

also ive heard from the ombudsman and they are not convinced by Barclays lending decision in relation to this account, and guess what, they are having issues getting the required information from barclaycard, well there's a surprise! honestly, i dont know how they have a licence to lend!

[RobinB4nk]

Thanks for the heads up Dx.

I read somewhere here that another user was also refunded after a fos investigation. The money was refunded to the dca rather than himself.

i don't quite understand this given the debt has been sold and has nothing to do with the original creditor?

In my  mind they should refund the money to the person who made the payments and the dca should seek damages from Barclays for selling what is  stolen money. 

Also I'm unsure of how credit file removal/scrubbing works given the account is defaulted and sold. how would this work?

[RobinB4nk]

Right, there's been an update.

 

PRA have responded and claim they have 'fulfilled our obligation under the CCA'. their response was sent via an email containing a link to a secure area to download the documents.

 

The documents supplied were:
1, Dispute response
2, Agreement or Reconstituted Agreement
3, Budget calculator
4, CCA Factsheet
5, Default Notice
6, NOA
7, Statements (feb 21 - jan 22)

 

I've uploaded 'Dispute Response' and 'Agreement or reconstituted Agreement' so you can have a quick look and see what you think? If you need any of the other docs just let me know.

 

look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

Many Thanks

Dispute response.pdf Agreement or Reconstituted Agreement.pdf

[RobinB4nk]

Hi Dx,

 

We have no idea how they got his email, can only assume past on from Barclaycard?

 

Attached DN as requested.

Default notice.pdf

[RobinB4nk]

Another update today from PRA with a Continuation of legal Process. what do you think?

PRA Continuance.pdf

[RobinB4nk]

Hiya Andyyorch,

 

Yes Isnt it! I didnt respond to the cca response because reading other threads it seemed that the ball was in their court so to speak, was that correct? also is their continuation letter a threat or the real deal? whats the next move?

[RobinB4nk]

I see, so the process starts again! Ok will do. many thanks.

[RobinB4nk]

thx dx,

 

really appreciate cag support, its very difficult for me to see my brother like this, he's really worried about it all. You're very experienced, you know all the emotions that people in these circumstances go through and you know all to well the predator tactics used by these dca's who exploit peoples ignorance and emotional weakness when they are vulnerable.

 

And yes he has asked if he should just start paying whatever and yes hes worried about people coming to the house and taking stuff etc... and its on me as his big brother to just keep him cool,  its very emotional.

 

This is a debt that the FOS are investigating and believe they can uphold his complaint, BC sold it off in an instant when things weren't going there money making way. its just unbelievable!

 

Once again thank you for all that you do for everyone

[RobinB4nk]

ok guys, its landed. just received county court claim from Northampton. whats the next move please?

[RobinB4nk]

ok Dx:

 

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Name County Court Northampton 

 

Name of the Claimant ?  PRA Group
 

Date of issue – 16/11/22

Particulars of Claim
What is the claim for – 

1.the Claimant claims the sum of 17,000 for an outstanding debt owed.

 

2. On xx/xx/2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank PLC for a Credit Card under reference xxxxxxxxxxx.

 

3. On xx/xx/22 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of 17,000.

 

4. On xx/xx/22 the debt of 17,000 was assigned to PRA Group (UK) LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant in accordance with S136 law of Property Act 1925.

 

AND THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS

1. The sum of £17,000

 

What is the total value of the claim? Approx. 17,000
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ?
I received the pack and requested a CCA, they responded with the documents as uploaded to CAG. they then responded believing they had complied and would commence legal preceding’s if they heard nothing.
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No

 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Before
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Not sure
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? debt settled with BC, now showing with PRA
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Claim from debt purchaser
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not sure
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not sure
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? n/a
 

Why did you cease payments? Couldn’t afford to 
 

What was the date of your last payment? oct 2021
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? yes, made complaint to FOS who believes there has been irresponsible lending, still ongoing.
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? yes i made a complaint re irresponsible lending, I didn’t enter into a debt plan.
 

claim.pdf

[RobinB4nk]

Hi everyone,

I need to start on getting this defence down on paper now. just want to ask a few questions:

 

Do you think pra have satisfied the cca with the recon? and is the defence solely reliant on it being a pre 2007 agreement?

should i be mentioning the FOS investigating this or not?

 

many thanks

 

 

[RobinB4nk]

Ok great, I’ll post up before sending. Many thanks

 

just a quickie, I've obviously had the CCA response, should i be sending of a request under CPR part 18 as well?

[RobinB4nk]

Hi CAG!

right, Ive read a fair few success BC claimforms and put together the following defence with a deadline this Friday. If you could just have a glance over that would be most appreciated. It's copy paste really, just wondered on the default notice, should i be saying i didnt get it? or should that be taken out?

 

look forward to hearing from you, many thanks.

 

 

The Claim –

1) The Claimant claims the sum of £17,xxx for an outstanding debt owed.

 

2) On xx/xx/2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank UK PLC for a Credit Card under reference XXXXXXXXXXX.

 

3) On XX/XX/2022 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £17,XXX.

 

4) On xx/xx/2022 the debt of £17,xxx was assigned to PRA Group (UK) LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property Act 1925.

 

5) AND THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS 1. The sum of £17,xxx

 

The Defence 

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is noted and accepted that the Defendant has in the past had financial dealings with Barclays Bank UK PLC. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers to within this claim.

 

The Defendant has sought clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 by Royal Mail with certificate of posting dated 16/09/2022. To this date the claimant has failed to sufficiently comply with my request and therefore is unable to prove its basis of claim pleaded within its particulars and therefore prevented from enforcing the agreement until such compliance.

 

3. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am not aware or ever receiving service of a Default Notice pursuant to section 87 of the consumer credit Act 1974. 

 

4. Paragraph 4 is noted and accepted; the defendant has received copies of notice of assignments from the claimant.

  

The Claimant has failed to provide evidence of balance/breach requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and
(b) show and evidence the nature of the breach and service of a valid default notice;
(c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
 

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

6. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[RobinB4nk]

OK, yes brain fart there between CPR and CCA. any good now?

 

The Claim –

1) The Claimant claims the sum of £17,xxx for an outstanding debt owed.

2) On xx/xx/2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank UK PLC for a Credit Card under reference XXXXXXXXXX.

3) On xx/xx/2022 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £17,xxx.

4) On xx/xx/2022 the debt of £17,xxx was assigned to PRA Group (UK) LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property Act 1925.

5) AND THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS 1. The sum of £17,xxx

 

The Defence 

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is noted and accepted that the Defendant has in the past had financial dealings with Barclays Bank UK PLC. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers to within this claim.

 

3. The Defendant, following the Letter of Claim, sought clarification by way of a section 78 request sent via first class post, dated 16/09/2022. To date the claimant has failed to sufficiently comply with my CCA request and is therefore in default and unable to prove its basis of claim pleaded within its particulars and thus prevented from enforcing the agreement until such compliance.

 

  

It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, and therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and
(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[RobinB4nk]

ok, ammended below, is this looking good enough now?

 

The Claim –

1) The Claimant claims the sum of £17,xxx for an outstanding debt owed.

2) On xx/xx/2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank UK PLC for a Credit Card under reference XXXXXXXXXX.

3) On xx/xx/2022 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £17,xxx.

4) On xx/xx/2022 the debt of £17,xxx was assigned to PRA Group (UK) LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property Act 1925.

5) AND THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS 1. The sum of £17,xxx

 

The Defence 

 

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is noted and accepted that the Defendant has in the past had a contractual relationship with Barclays Bank UK PLC. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers within this claim. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars.

 

The Defendant, following the Letter of Claim, sought clarification by way of a section 78 request sent first class post, dated 16/09/2022. To date the claimant has failed to sufficiently comply with my CCA request and is therefore in default and prevented from enforcing the agreement until such compliance.

   

3. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide evidence of agreement/balance requested by way of a section 78 request, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: 

(a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and 

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and 

(c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[RobinB4nk]

sry dx, I think I'm just getting lost with this.

 

Am i right in saying that there are two ways to request information. 1, through the CCA section 78, and 2 by CPR 31.14.

 

I only did a CCA under section 78, I didnt do a request under CPR 31.14.

 

does that make sense?

 

I thought barclaycard was barclays bank? I just took that from the particulars?

 

sry if im just getting this all wrong

[RobinB4nk]

ok thx for clarifying dx.

 

cpr 31.14 sent this morning.

 

so should i not be saying ive never had a relationship with barclays bank if its a different organisation? would this not be illustrating their incompetence? or is this petty?

 

[RobinB4nk]

OK, thx Andy, will stick as we are.

 

if you and dx could have a look at the revised defence below, am i getting there?

 

The Claim –

1) The Claimant claims the sum of £17,XXX.XX for an outstanding debt owed.

2) On XX/XX/2000 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Barclays Bank UK PLC for a Credit Card under reference XXXXXXXXXXX.

3) On 28/01/2022 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £17,XXX.XX.

4) On XX/02/2022 the debt of £17,XXX.XX was assigned to PRA Group (UK) LTD. Notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property Act 1925.

5) AND THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS 1. The sum of £17,XXX.XX

 

The Defence 

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 5 (DISCLOSURE OF DOCUMENTS) of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) by failing to supply whole or in part documents requested and indeed has failed to provide explanation as to why.  It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is noted and accepted that the Defendant has in the past had a contractual relationship with Barclays Bank UK PLC. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or debt by which the Claimant refers within this claim. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars.

 

The Defendant has sought clarification by way of a section 78 request sent first class post, dated 16/09/2022. To date the claimant has failed to sufficiently comply with my CCA request and is therefore in default and prevented from enforcing the agreement until such compliance.

 

4. On the 15 December 2022, the Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the Claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to the Claimant. The Defendant requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice, Notice of Assignment. To date the claimant has not sent any of these documents in relation to this request.

 

5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant.  The Claimant has failed to comply with PAPDC, is in default of my CCA request and has not provided requested information under my CPR 31.14 request. Given the reasons as outlined the Claimant has failed to provide fully or in part evidence of agreement / assignment / balance / breach, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: 

  

(a) Show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and 

(b) Show and evidence the nature of any breach and Default Notice; 

(c) Show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and 

(d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

7. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.