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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Birmingham council Blue Badge fraud use - now magistrates date. **RESOLVED**


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As above, you have no realistic option but to plead guilty.

 

The problem when looking at the sentencing guidelines for fraud is that they cover such a wide range of seriousness that making a reasonable guess at the sentence is not easy for those unfamiliar with the guidelines.

 

However, I would suggest that your offence sits at the very bottom of that range. There is no indication that you are being accused of using the badge more than once.

 

Even if you had done so, the prosecution needs to let you know at this stage and in any case there is no evidence to support such an allegation. So it’s a single offence for very little monetary gain.

 

My guess (and it’s only my guess) is that If you show genuine remorse before the court I believe they may see fit to impose a “Conditional Discharge”.

 

This means that there will be no punishment for the offence but if you commit any further offences during the period of the discharge (12 months is the most usual) then that will be the end of the matter.

 

At the very worst, if the court does not think a Conditional Discharge is appropriate, they should deal with the matter by way of a fine.

 

You will also pay a "Victim Surcharge which will be £20 if you are handed a Conditional Discharge or 10% of the fine (minimum £34) if you are handed a fine. As well as that the Council will ask for a contribution towards their costs. The CPS normally ask for £85 but local authorities ask for somewhat more.

 

The good news is that you will be able to take advantage of the “duty solicitor” (DS) at court on the day of your appearance.

 

The DS is available to people who appear for the first time and who are charged with an offence which can carry a custodial sentence.

 

Do not worry – there is no possibility of you going to prison for your offence.

 

As I said, fraud is a very broad spectrum charge and covers some very serious offences. It’s just the offence must carry the theoretical possibility of custody before the DS can be consulted.

 

The DS should have a chat with you about the offence, gain a brief outline of your circumstances and should represent you in court.

 

You would not be entitled to Legal Aid for your first appearance (because you can take advantage of the DS scheme) and your eligibility would only be tested if you had to appear again, in which case the DS would usually help with your application. However, your case should be dealt with in one appearance.

 

For information, very roughly, Legal Aid is available for those with an annual income of under about £11,500.  

 

Just to explain, the reason you have been summonsed to court is, once again, because the offence can carry a custodial sentence.

 

There is a court process known as the “Single Justice Procedure” (SJP) where a single Magistrate sits with a legal advisor in an office dealing with guilty pleas to minor offences “on the papers.”

 

Nobody else can attend and somebody who is being dealt with under that process must ask for a normal hearing if they want to attend court for any reason.

 

Many minor motoring offences (speeding, careless driving, etc.) are dealt with in this way. But the SJP can only be used for non-imprisonable offences.

 

Regrettably you will have a criminal conviction as a result of this. Quite what effect this will have on your employment I’m afraid is not my area of expertise.
 

Edited by dx100uk
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  • 2 weeks later...

For information, this is what is likely to happen on the day:

 

When you arrive at the court building, report to reception. They will have a list of those expected to attend. Make it clear you’d like to see the Duty Solicitor (DS). If they prevaricate, make it clear that you are entitled to see the DS  as you are appearing for the first time and you face a charge which can carry a custodial sentence.

 

When you see the DS he (I’ll use he but it might just as likely be “she”) will want to know your side of the story. He will also take brief notes about your domestic situation, income, employment, etc.

 

You will be called into court and should be asked to stand in the enclosed dock. The court will be presided over by either three “Lay” Magistrates or possibly a District Judge (DJ) sitting alone (some big cities make more use of DJs than smaller cities and towns). In front of them will be the court’s Legal Advisor. They are the only people facing outwards towards the court. Everybody else faces them.

 

Facing the Bench will be the Duty Solicitor  - probably nearest you – and the prosecutor. There may be a few other odd people sitting in the court but they will be nothing to do with you. There are no wigs and gowns, only suits and boots.

 

The charge will be read to you by the Legal Advisor and you will be asked to enter your plea. If you plead Guilty the prosecutor will provide a brief outline of what happened. The DS will respond with anything he thinks the court should hear about the offence and you.

 

The Magistrates may retire to discuss their sentence or they may just agree their sentence whilst remaining in court. If a DJ is presiding, he or she is unlikely to retire. You will then be sentenced.

 

Whilst a Magistrates’ Court is a formal court of law, it is far less formal than a Crown Court and you need not be worried that you will be bullied or intimidated.

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  • 5 weeks later...

The period you have to disclose this conviction is laid down in the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (ROA) and depends on the sentence. If it is dealt with by way of a fine you must disclose it for 12 months from the date of your conviction. If you are sentenced to a Community Order it must be disclosed for 12 months after the order ends. After that time you need not disclose it. However, although this will apply to insurance proposals, etc., there are some occupations and positions which are exempt from the ROA provisions and most positions in schools are among them. However, this is not straightforward and I'm not entirely sure of all the detail. As suggested, your union would be best placed to advise you.

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I can only tell you what your position is. It wasn't your fault it was adjourned this time. Had a DS been available the case would have been done and dusted. Magistrates should understand this when you appear next time. 

 

If you think about this, if they are telling you that you need to engage your own lawyer, the court need never provide any duty solicitors. All they need do is make sure none is available, all the cases needing them get adjourned (like yours) and the next time defendants appear it is their "second" appearance (when they would not be entitled to see a DS). 

 

It should be noted on the court's file that the reason for the adjournment was the lack of a DS and your next appearance should be treated as your first.

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I don't think so.

 

But the court has an obligation to provide a DS. It's a legal entitlement that (some) defendants have. I find it astonishing that the court's Legal Advisor has suggested that because one was not available for the OP today that she must make her own arrangements for her next appearance.

 

This from Gick raises an interesting point:

 

Quote

I think that the court would adjourn in any case so that they can have the benefit of reports if they are minded to impose Community Service Order or even custody (suspended of not).

 

If the court is considering anything other than a discharge or a fine, it would be bound to order a report by the probation service. If a probation officer is in court (as they always used to be, but it is not so common these days) a report could be prepared on the day and the case could simply be put back whilst that was done. If the defendant took advantage of the DS scheme, the DS would represent the defendant for sentencing as well. But if an adjournment is required for sentencing then the DS could not be called upon for that second hearing.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 24/09/2022 at 17:20, honeybee13 said:

I have a question for @Man in the middleif he's around.

 

MitM, do you think it would help blackcat's cause if she could get one or more character references to show the mags?

 

HB

 

 A character reference may help her (it can't do any harm). Whether it will have any significant impact is difficult to tell.

 

If the court is in two minds (say between a fine or a Community Order) it may just swing it towards a fine.

 

However, if they are fairly well decided in what they are going to impose, it will probably not help very much.

 

I don't really understand the solicitor suggesting she has made her situation worse by pleading guilty before seeking legal help.

 

There was never any doubt about her plea. In common terms she was "banged to rights" and a guilty plea was the only realistic option.

 

She didn't need legal advice to decide that.

 

What has happened is that since has realised that the consequences of a conviction for fraud will be quite far reaching (particularly for her) she is seeking help with mitigation to reduce the damage.

 

But escaping a conviction was never a realistic option and if the solicitor is suggesting that it was, I think she is being misled. 

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