Using phone whilst driving - even though I wasn't!

[Hair Bear]

I was travelling in extremely slow stop-start traffic and noticed the police directing the occasional vehicle to an avenue on the left which was teeming with cops. I surmised they were doing some sort of random check as only the odd vehicle was directed that way, and I was unlucky enough to be one of them.

Once down the street I was directed by a different officer to pull over, wind down my window and turn off my engine. I was then flabbergasted to hear him say (words to the effect of) "We are doing a mobile phone sting and you've been seen using yours."

 

I told him this just wasn't so and asked him to look at what I assumed would be video footage. "We don't have footage." I pointed out that my phone wasn't even switched on, but this didn't deter him from taking my details, and a photograph, and said I would be sent notification of prosecution, which has just come through - six points and £200 fine or else a £90 3-hour driving course.

 

The latter is tempting because I'm told there is no way anyone wins in court, but then I would be lying and saying I was using my phone when I absolutely wasn't.

All thoughts are welcome.

[Hair Bear]

"same random check" Yes, but extra input is always good

 

"Do you have a phone log showing it was switched off for a relevant period before the stop?" I'm unsure how to check for that.

 

"Were you fiddling with any other objects or devices other than a phone that could have been mistaken as a phone?" Only thing I can think of is a minute or two before being pulled over I checked whether the note in my pocket was a fiver or a tenner. But like I say, this was some time before. 

 

"Produce the statement and post it up here so that we can have a look and help you adjust the format" Will do but it will be later as I have to go to hospital for a while. Thanks everyone.

[Hair Bear]

The phone I own is an Alcatel 3.

 

"Produce the statement and post it up here so that we can have a look and help you adjust the format"

I've done this so far, okay?

Quote

 

My name is XXX

I am XX years old and only that XXX address.

I have held a driving licence for XXX years – does it have points on it?

On 26^th October 2021, I was transporting my 4-week-old baby daughter to Royal Manchester Children’s hospital along the same route I had been using almost every day for a month.

 

My baby daughter has the genetic disorder cystic fibrosis, which caused a life-threatening blockage at birth, and so she had to have an ostomy operation – which leaves an open wound and she wears a stoma bag.

 

My baby daughter needs round the clock car and e. She had only recently come home, and I was taking her for a check-up.

 

At approximately 8:45am I was on Regent Road and there was a tailback and stop-start slow-moving traffic, which I could see in the distance was caused by police officers pulling over the odd vehicle.

 

At the time I thought it was some kind of goods vehicle check, so was surprised when I got motioned at by an officer standing to my right, in the centre of the road, who waved me towards a side road on the left.

 

I even pointed to my chest and mouthed “me?” I was so surprised, and was nodded at.

 

I turned onto the said road, to find about thirty policemen, most of which were stood in a couple of groups having a chat and a laugh.

 

An officer not with the group of chatterers motioned me to pull to the lefthand side, and attempted to open my passenger door. I wound down the window and pointed to my daughter (in a ‘I don’t want to open the door because I have a baby there’ gesture).

 

It crossed my mind that somehow some cop somewhere was psychic, and they just wanted to grill wanted to ask me about why she wasn’t in a car seat (which was because she was so tiny and the stoma bag so cumbersome, that it made more sense to wedge her carrycot into the well).

 

He never mentioned the baby and just told me to turn off my engine, which I did, and in the next breath told me that they were conducting an operation regarding people using their phones whilst driving, and that I had been spotted using mine.

 

I was flabbergasted, and told him that my phone wasn’t even switched on and quickly added: “Look at your cctv footage! If you look at that you’ll see I wasn’t using my phone!”

He told me they hadn’t used any cctv footage.

 

He didn’t check my phone for usage, but simply asked I had my licence on me. I told him I didn’t (I rarely carry anything, including my phone) so he asked my name and address and took a photograph of me.

 

He also asked if I was working and how many points I had on my licence, which I found odd because what’s any of that got to do with the phone allegation?

 

A former policeman later told me that if I had said I had nine points, he would possibly have let me off with a warning. Instead he told me I would be getting a notification through the post.

 

I wanted to stay and put my case more stringently, like asking him to check my phone, but didn’t because my daughter was getting cold.

 

I am well aware that driving while using a telephone is dangerous as well as unlawful and in particular, as I had my very ill baby in the car, I would never have done anything to create a greater risk for her.

I have printed out the record of my incoming calls and outgoing calls and text messages for the period around the time that I was stopped and you will see that there was no telephone activity at all.

I should point out that in order to use my telephone I need to wear reading glasses that I am unable to use the same glasses in order to drive. 

As I was driving, I was not wearing any glasses and was therefore unable to use my telephone in any event.

 

 

[*at this point I would like to offer more arguments…

Like the fact that my daughter's safety was paramount to me at the time, so why would I jeopardise that by looking at a boring phone?

 

Like the fact that anyone who knows me will tell you how hard it is to get hold of me because I don’t like phones, never have, and rarely carry it.

 

I was only doing so in case I needed to ring the mother of my daughter from hospital. Hence why it was off, as the battery was low - my phone’s battery was nearly dead because it’s a naff charger and I’m always forgetting where I leave my phone, and so keep failing to charge it anyway.

 

Like the fact that I can produce my incoming and outgoing phone calls and texts.

 

Like the fact that I need to use reading glasses to see my phone

– did the police officer see me with glasses on (answer: no)?

 

Can’t have done because

(a) I wasn’t looking at my phone! And

(b) I can’t drive with my reading glasses on!

 

There’s also this other thing that someone elsewhere has mentioned, about the judgement in Barreto vs DPP]

[Hair Bear]

I have already been offered to accept the allegation (I wrote this in my opening post: "[the copper] said I would be sent notification of prosecution, which has just come through - six points and £200 fine or else a £90 3-hour driving course. The latter is tempting because I'm told there is no way anyone wins in court, but then I would be lying and saying I was using my phone when I absolutely wasn't")

 

"I don't really know what you intend to do with your statement" - I was following BankFodder's advice, who said: "you should put together a detailed statement immediately describing exactly what happened and who said want to who [...] post it up here so that we can have a look and help you adjust the format"

[Hair Bear]

Apologies if I have not made myself clear or have misunderstood advice. The choice I am personally deciding between is either

 

(a) going on the course - I get no points but am admitting guilt to something I didn't do. I will also lose £90 and indeed the chance to go on another course for three years if ever I actually do infringe the law, meaning drive at, say, 38 in a 30 zone.

 

(b) going to court in an attempt to win my case - if I win great, but if I lose it means 6 points and lots more money than £90.

 

I am leaning towards B, but if people think I can't win, I will reconsider. I certainly have no intension of going to court to plead guilty, or to take the six points now.     

 

If you lot believe I can win in court, I'll go for it, but will need instruction on how to go ahead (I thought that the statement was part of that process).

 

"Might it be at all possible that you reach down into the well to arrange a blanket or to check her or to give her a reassuring touch on the cheek? Might it be possible that this movement was construed as you putting your phone away?" Yes it is possible. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Hair Bear

[Hair Bear]

"Could it be that while you were sat bored in traffic in your car, that you were supporting the side of your head with your hand ?" 

 

"Would you be prepared to say to the court that you did from time to time reach down to reassure or to check on your baby"

 

The only legit thing I can recall is checking to see if the note in my pocket was a fiver or tenner, but I didn't lift it to my head - I just looked at it next to my pocket for a split second and then re-zipped my pocket. It is possible that a copper (bent on pulling over as many people as possible) might have thought that I was looking down at a phone, but surely this this would sound pretty lame in court, as though I'm desperately trying to think up a story to support my case. 

 

Head: I'm fairly sure I didn't support my head, although anything like that is possible. Again, though, that sounds too much like I've gone away and thought up something.

 

The daughter angle seems more reasonable a defence (as you are admitting guilt to reckless driving, but as pointed out, this is not what I am charged with), not least because the questioning copper did not make any reference to her, or even look at her. I actually came away wondering if he knew she was there at all. Certainly the cop who falsely claims to have seen me on my phone did not know she was there. That said, is it not better to simply say I wasn't on the phone and to produce phone records and battery usage, rather than come up with something the police may or may not have seen? 

 

Am I allowed to ask them now for their proof? It would be interesting to hear what they have to say.

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Hair Bear

[Hair Bear]

"You do not know which offence they may charge you with. It may be "using a mobile phone" [...] But they may charge you with "Failing to be in proper control"

 

Is this not clear on the notification they sent me? It reads: "You have admitted to being the driver of the vehicle...at the time of the alleged offence - Use a handheld mobile phone/device while driving a motor vehicle on a road"

[Hair Bear]

letter from police pdf.pdf

 

I hope that that PDF is okay?

 

"Although this is distasteful, if you're prepared to provide pictures of your daughter in the well of the car, a picture of your daughter stoma, as the medical notes to support your statement of mitigation, then you could well be that they would abandon the prosecution"

- if my daughter could speak for herself I'm pretty sure she would say "Go for it, Dad", so yes, for justice I am prepared to go the whole hog. 

[Hair Bear]

I will challenge them. Points - none.

[Hair Bear]

No, I've never been done for phone use - I don't really use it away from the car let alone in it! I've had three points a few times, but never more than three at any one time. These have all been for doing 38 in a 30 zone. 

 

What's the order of events, btw? If I write to them in order to say i will contest, do they then send me what evidence they have? If so, can I then pick that apart before going to trial, or do I just have to do that in a court room?

[Hair Bear]

No, I didn't opt for the course, going to stand my ground instead. Can't recall the length of time that it took for them to send me anything but it was within a month.

[Hair Bear]

4 hours ago, Manxman in exile said:

 

Can I ask, did you reply and reject the offer of a course or did you just ignore it?  Presumably you've not received a SJPN yet?

 

I'd be interested to know how it unfolds.  Thanks

I actually wrote asking what evidence they had. I knew they couldn't send me any, just wanted to buy time. I got a letter back after three or so weeks saying they don't give evidence at this point, and again offered me a course or the points - with a fresh start date 'from the [new] date of this letter', it should be noted. Note also that the person responding began their letter by saying I was spoken to by the police officer who saw me with a phone, which of course was not the case. I doubt I can use that in my defence, but I also believe that if i had written back pointing out the error, they would have sent yet another fresh date from which I had the required weeks to respond. I have a habit of kicking the can down the road, occasionally this tactic works for me. To that end, no I did not tell them I am going to contest. Will just let them send me whatever it is they will send in their next step.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Hair Bear

[Hair Bear]

Thanks, Man in the middle.

[Hair Bear]

Just to update this, it's been well over a year now and I never received anything, no letter or communication otherwise, so am assuming they just closed it. I checked my licence recently and it was valid with no changes, so I haven't missed anything and all is well. Thank you all for your help.