Car dealer requesting money following part ex

[Pjd666]

Hello all. 
First time poster. 
 

I recently part exchanged a car as part of a car sales deal. 2 days later I get a phone call saying there was engine issues with the car and the dealer is refusing to settle the finance. 
 

the dealer inspected the car and declined a test drive as I had driven 18 miles to view the car I was willing to purchase. I returned the following day after completing 18 miles home and 18 miles back without issue. 
 

He phoned me offering 3 options which are as follows. 
 

1.) pay towards repair

2.) reverse the whole deal

3.) collect the old car and have 2 finance deals on the go. 
 

I am just wondering where I stand. I have turned down all 3 offers based on CAB advice. 
I have since been waited 7 days since previous contact by myself to which the delete has not replied. 
I emailed them 12/10/21 requesting a reply by 15/10/21 by 12pm as I feel they have had long enough to reply. 
 

In previous emails I have done the following:

quoted from consumer rights act
threatened with Financial ombudsman, FCA, solicitors and legal system based n CAB advice. 
 

can anyone please advise what else to try

 

many thanks in advance

 

pete

P. S. Sorry for the long post

 

 

[BankFodder]

Of course this is very unusual in that we here have a dealer who is claiming they have been ripped off by a customer.

I'm afraid it's not at all clear from your post, exactly what your position is.

Are you in possession of the new car?

Please can you tell us a bit about both cars – the old one and the new one. Make, mileage, what was paid, the allowance made on your old part exchange vehicle.

Of course I think we would like to know the name of the dealer.

Also, what is your status in this? Are you a consumer or is this a business/work vehicle?

I don't understand why there should be two finance deals on the go

You talk about the "delete" not having replied. I take it that you mean the "dealer".

If you have the new vehicle and the finance agreement is in place then I don't understand what it is you are waiting for.

I think you need to read over what you have written in your first post – maybe get somebody else to read it and see if they understand it and once you realise that it could be presented in a more structured and detailed way, maybe you could do that.

 

Then we will be in a position to give you advice.

[Pjd666]

Apologies but my head is all over the place. 
 

here goes. 
 

so I traded in my 2016 Jaguar xe that had finance outstanding valued at £9400 to Motion Motor Company ltd. The dealer inspected the car via a walk around and look over and offered me £9500 part exchange towards a cheaper Fiat 500x valued at £7980.
 

All documentation for the deal was completed and the new finance company paid out with the dealer agreeing to settle the outstanding finance to the old finance company, at this point I drove away in my used 2016 Fiat 500x. The vehicle I purchased via finance is for personal use and was purchased as it is more practical for daily useage. 
 

2 days later the dealer telephoned me and stated the Jaguar (which is now in his possession) had developed a major engine issue, he stated the timing chain had become faulty and offered me 3 options. Which are as follows:

1. Pay towards the repair costing £1,700

2. Reverse the deal altogether

3. Collect my old car from them and keep both. (Which would mean me having 2 lots of outstanding finance.). 
 

I then contacted the CAB to get advice on what I am entitled to legally. They informed me that the issue with the Jaguar falls on the dealer and not myself as he is deemed to be the professional and not myself. 
 

I have since informed the dealer of this advice from CAB but he is still demanding I make a choice from the first 3 options offered and is still refusing to settle the finance on the Jaguar. 
 

any advice where I can go from here as I would end up with 2 lots of on going payments?

 

thanks in advance

 

Pete

[BankFodder]

You're not a trader. The Jaguar was your own private property and nothing to do with your trade.
Your status as a consumer is useful but only has a marginal effect because even if this was a trader to trader contract, the result would probably be the same.

As long as you didn't misrepresent the car in any way then I tend to agree with CAB that the dealer doesn't have an argument and he will have to accept the car in the condition that he bought it.
As you already understand, he is a professional – holding out some kind of professional expertise. He had an opportunity to inspect the car and it was his decision not to and once again as long as you didn't mislead him then he is going to have to accept the consequences of his poor judgement.

I expect that this thread may receive some visits from people who feel rather triumphant about this situation because generally speaking it is the consumer who gets the bad deal and it is the dealer who tries to avoid their obligations.
In this case it seems that the dealer has gotten the bad deal and far from avoiding your obligations, you have no obligations.

However we do have a problem here and that is that the dealer undertook to settle the finance on the Jaguar. Why did this happen? Did you get this in writing?

If the dealer decides that they is not going to settle the finance then we will have to help you sort this out. Of course the dealer would be making a very serious mistake if this is what they did.
Have you any inkling as to what the dealer is proposing to do?

Have you had anything in writing from the dealer? Have you had any exchanges in writing with the dealer?

[Pjd666]

Hello. 
 

yes I do have the new car as I drove it away after the deal was completed. 

 

yes I do have in writing as he wrote it on the sales invoice which was also included as part of the paperwork with the new finance company. 
 

I will upload it as a PDF as soon as I can. I only have it as a photo but I do have the original document I can scan in. 
 

as for exchanges with the dealer I have emails as I will not speak to him over the phone so I have it all in writing

 

thanks

[BankFodder]

What day the part exchange actually happen? It would be reasonable to say that the dealer had from that date to fulfil all obligations in respect of cancelling the Jaguar finance arrangement.

In your written exchange did the dealer give a date by which this would happen?

[Pjd666]

The deal took place 28th September 2021.
He informed me verbally About the finance settlement. He said it would be completed within 48 hours of the sale. 
 

since then it’s been email exchange between us and me trying to contact new and old finance companies to try and get a resolution. 

[BankFodder]

 

 

Quote

Dear XXX

As you know on XXX date you took my Jaguar motorcar registration number XXX in part exchange for a Fiat registration number XXX.

You allowed £9500 on the Jaguar which effectively means that you purchased the vehicle at that price. Our shared intention was to use the money to settle outstanding finance on the Jaguar and you undertook to deal with the finance company directly and to settle the matter within two days.

Since then I understand that a defect has manifested itself with the Jaguar and that you have not carried out your promise to pay my £9500 to the finance company and it may be that you are proposing not to do so.

As I have already said to you I did not mislead you. I sold you the vehicle in good faith and you purchased it in good faith. You had an opportunity to inspect the vehicle and take it for a test drive and you declined.
You are a professional within the motor trade and so therefore you hold out a certain expertise and you made a certain judgement about the condition of the car.
Had I set out to deceive you in some way, you would be entirely justified in your complaint against me but we both know that this is not the case.
I have full tracking history of my use of the vehicle on a daily basis. Had I been aware of the fault which you have discovered, I would not have been using the vehicle in this way.

I'm writing to warn you that if you do not settle the finance agreement as agreed, then this would be a serious matter. Apart from putting me in a breach of contract with the finance company, this would impact my financial status with the credit reference agencies and make it more difficult or more expensive to get credit in future.
I could also become the target of legal action from the finance companies.

The £9500 was left with you and effectively it was left with you in trust. This means that you have a duty as a trustee of my money to pass it to the finance company in full and final settlement of all my liability stored them.
If you do not pay the money over to the finance company then not only will you be in breach of your contract with me but also you will be in breach of trust.
Furthermore you will be liable for any financial harm that I might suffer.

If you do not settle the outstanding finance agreement on the Jaguar as agreed then it is possible that the finance company may take a legal action against me.
If this happens, you can be certain that I will join you to the legal action as a part 20 defendant – which is legal speak for a second defendant.

If you feel that in some way I have breached an agreement with you then your clear remedy is to sue me for a breach of contract in the County Court and I will be very happy to defend. However, it is not for you to take the law into your own hands and refuse to pass on the £9500 which was left with you in trust, to the finance company.

Please confirm that you will be settling the outstanding finance agreement as agreed and let me know the timescale for that.

If you will not settle the outstanding finance agreement within 14 days then I will sue you in the County Court and without any further notice and this is my letter of claim.

Yours sincerely
 

 

Let us know if you're prepared to send the above letter and if it is correct and if you want to make any amendments.
I think it sums up the entire situation and I think you need to move very quickly.

On the basis of what you have told us, your chances of success are better than 95%.
Of course if the dealer has some evidence that you deceived them, that might change the picture a little.

If you do send the above letter then please understand that it's not a bluff. You must go ahead with your threat on day 15 and of course we will help you.

[Pjd666]

Many thanks for this. 
 

i did not deceive the dealer in anyway as far as to the engine issue. I was still using the car daily and have tracking info to prove this (I don’t think the dealer is aware of the tracking - Jaguar Assist) surely if the car had a major engine issue I wouldn’t be able to use it daily!

 

thanks again

[BankFodder]

Excellent. The tracking information will be very useful.
I have amended the proposed letter above in red.

I don't think there's anything you can do now except to send it – but also send a copy of the letter to your finance company and also write a separate letter to your finance company saying that you are attempting to redeem the finance agreement but the dealer who is holding money is at the moment refusing to pay over to the finance company.

Also, for the moment I suggest that you keep on paying the finance company their instalments. If you simply stop the instalments now then you will have an additional problem on your hands from the finance company and I think that things are sufficiently complicated for the moment.

We can revise that opinion later on.

If you end up overpaying the finance company then we will decide who to recover the money from – other the finance company or from the dealer police the problem will be very much smaller than £9500.

Please let us know if you are going to go ahead

[Gick]

Do you have any evidence other than the verbal claim by the dealer such as report from a mechanic, that a fault has developed,? It is not unheard of a dealer chancing their arm to make more profit!  If you have no independent evidence, I personally would adjust Banfodders letter in the third paragraph Since then I understand that a defect has manifested itself with the Jaguar to something like ' since then you claim that a defect has manifested itself with the jaguar'

 

Of course it makes no difference to your position, except that down the line the dealer cannot use the letter to suggest that you knew that he had discovered the fault early on. 

[BankFodder]

Still waiting to hear if you have decided to post this letter of claim

[Pjd666]

Sorry I am at work until 6pm. Will update fully then

[Pjd666]

So letter of claim is going in. I have found out today that he has driven the car again even though it “has major engine issues” according to him it was classed as unsafe to drive by a mechanic and then drove it. 

[BankFodder]

That is very interesting. Do you have any evidence of this?

[Pjd666]

Yes I do via the tracking info. It won’t let me upload to here as it is a screenshot

[BankFodder]

I think would be curious to see it. Convert the screenshot into PDF file and upload that.

Also, make sure that you've got it completely backed up. How many miles did he do?

[Pjd666]

It was only just over a mile. But 2 days after I part exchanged he drove it on a motorway in apparent “limp mode”.30th september 2021.pdf

 

 

14th october 2014.pdf

[BankFodder]

Well if he's only driving a mile or so then it's easy for him to say that he simply testing it – which is very likely to be correct.

I think if you had some tracking data which showed that he was actually using it and going out for jaunts, then that would be very different.

Keep an eye on it.

 

[The GodMother]

Excuse me l have a daft question. I thought when the timing chain went you could not move the car. So he would not have been able to drive it in Limp mode. Sorry it happened to a friend of mine in a van and he had to have a new engine/ rebuild the van could not move. 

[dx100uk]

correct.

it wont be the chain but the sensor, they sometimes come loose and cause scoping. it might also only need a software update, of which for the 2016 models some have has 3 since birth.

 

if the dealer has not put a genuine jaguar diagnostics tester on it, these generic Chinese ones dish up all kinds of wrong codes for most jags... imho dealer is talking bs!

 

dx

[The GodMother]

As l thought. 

 

Sorry only following as l am trying to help neighbours sons with a first car. So info getting as much as possible. 

[dx100uk]

best bet is ask him for the error code.

 

dx

[Pjd666]

So after sending a letter of claim. This is his reply. 
 

Dear Peter

In reply to your email dated 25/10/21. We repeat that we are not willing 
to accept a car that is not fit for purpose and not road worthy. In 
response to your finance issues, this is a matter for you to sort out. 
We repeat we have no contractual obligation to your finance company. You 
have got yourself into this predicament and we are only trying to help 
you find a resolution. If you are unwilling to compromise then 
unfortunately there is not much we are able to do.

Regards
Motion Motor Company

[dx100uk]

So as its 3 weeks later and you didnt issue your court claim on day 15.......doesn't bade well upon your intentions..you should have issued the claim......thinks you are now a pushover

 

dx