not getting £425 deposit back :(

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

To begin with,thanks demon for making me more big headed than I already am!!lol!

 

Anyway,now knoxvillian in reply to your post and in my view:

 

1.You should have taken photos of the property before you leave - BIG MISTAKE!!!Because once you have closed the door of the flat and returned the keys there is no going back.Basically it is your word against his.By the way do you have any friends/relatives that have visited you who are willing to provide a witness statement should the need arise to go to court regarding say the flooring mainly?

2.The landlord should be compensated for the dog chew marks as you have said yourself plus the dents.The amount would depend on how much it would cost to make the "wrong right".

3.Regarding the bills,I would say that you should as you have done send copies not originals of the fully paid bills.The gas and electric bills could NEVER become the responsibilty of the owner because as long as he/she shows a copy of the agreement and the fact he/she lives elsewhere this will fully discharge his/her liabilty.However the council tax and water rates are a slightly different ballgame and I wiil now elaborate further now why -

 

COUNCIL TAX....

 

Whenever a property becomes vacant,liability of the council tax IMMEDIATELY falls on the owner(until a new tenant is found).If the owner does not have the correct paperwork he/she could potentially be held liable to pay it or have problems with the exemption periods if and when he and she qualifies.This could also be extended and apply to filling out the tax return with accurate amounts regarding rental income and allowable expenditure of which the council tax would be as such.

 

WATER RATES...

 

I know for a fact that owners can be persued and taken to court/get a CCJ for unpaid water rates by their tenants as the water companies could obtain the name of the owner from the land registry.Although,he/she could go back to court to get it set aside/removed.The fact that the tenant has provided proof of payment puts the owner at ease and also once the property becomes empty he/she would ALWAYS have to pay the water rates again until a new tenant is found.There are NEVER voids in water rate bills and therefore the owner would be assisted if he/she had proof that the tenant had paid for the tax return reasons as mentioned regarding the council tax as the water rates is an allowable expense.

 

NON PAYMENT OF BILLS - POSSIBLE POTENTIAL IMPLICATION ON TENANT WHEN PERSUING LANDLORD FOR DEPOSIT

 

In my view there is no reason whatsoever why the tenant cannot provide proof that the bills have been paid regardless.A tenant who does not pay the bills and then persues the owner in court for the deposit could have any knowledgable owner potentially argue that the tenant entered into the agreement by a form of misrepresentation/fraud i.e.the tenant signed the agreement with the knowledge of the rent and other liabilities and has not honoured his/her/ their part of the agreement fully.

 

GENERALLY SPEAKING...

 

A tenant should be able to claim interest on a deposit that is withheld - at the county court rate of 8% - simple interest.

 

ALSO...

 

In all deductions from tenant deposits as in a court of law the reasonability test is ALWAYS applied.

 

Please note I have no knowledge about the law in Scotland but these are my views on this subject based on my vast personal experience/associates with their experiences that I know who are private landlords.

 

I hope you find this information useful.

 

If you any questions,just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[Nightmare4banks]

knoxvillian,just a suggestion:

 

In the future,you could word your letters as follows:

 

"ten working days from bla ignoring weekends and public holidays"

 

All the best with your claim!

[Nightmare4banks]

knoxvillian,in reply to your last post:

 

1.Try and obtain from him the exit report that he has.

2.This landlord could be trying to bluff you rather than really have these damage costs which seem excessive to put you off persuing him - so do not worry too much.Accordingly,you bluff him as well i.e.you do not object in him counterclaiming against you but it has to be justified and you are not afraid to carry on with your claim.

3.We will probably need to go through the items that were damaged in more detail again(something more you to mull over,make some enquiries and then we work out more realistically how much any of the damage has costed as a loss to this former landlord.

 

However,let's wait to receive some feedback on the exit report.

 

4.Remember that litigation has nothing to with money claims but it is to do with "war of wits" and believing in yourself.

 

Once you get the reply for point 1,post it here so I will try and suggest the way forward in order to properly kick this landlord's a**!

[Nightmare4banks]

knoxvillian,post the exit report so we can read it and hopefully give you more guidance.

 

By the way,his letter is fairly hollow and with no substance.

[Nightmare4banks]

I would like to add on:

 

1.If the landlord refused to allow a pet in the property i.e.mainly dog or cat.The contract would probably be deemed unfair.If the tenant had wanted to house his pet crocodile,yes I would agree that that would be be fair on the landlord not to allow the tenant to house the crocodile.By the way this is just an extreme example to show what would/could be classed as fair/unfair.

 

2.In all cases,whether to allow housing a pet or the repair work the reasonability test would ALWAYS apply.As this is what the courts would apply.

 

3.In this particular case,the poster has to pay for the damage done by the dog but a reasonable and sensible amount.In order to work this out - find the costs of materials then add on the labour.It will 100% be much less than this landlord has quoted the poster.

 

So,knoxvillian go for it!

 

All the best!

[Nightmare4banks]

knoxvillian in reply to your questions:

 

1.Do not over worry about being too precise regarding the costings because it is very clear that this landlord is trying to rip you off and let him show it!

He is shooting himself in the foot and let him carry on.

 

2.You should tell him that the costings are excessive and you will challenge them in a court of law should the need arise.

 

Incidently,I have read the acceptable hourly rate is £7.50 but I cannot recall where.If I remember I will post a link on this thread.

 

By the way,who drafted the exit report - the landlord or the agent or both?

 

The answer to this question should hopefully enable me to assist you further.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

Knoxvillian,I have just had another idea regarding your claim which you could potentially take on board:

 

Make your claim unfixed up to £750 to include interest at 8% - Small Claim.

 

This enables you to still get the most back out of the deposit should the landlord defend and without putting in place figures yourself thus reducing the potential amount of deposit to be refunded.

 

The potential double benefits for you are as follows:

 

1.The onus will be on the judge to decide what is fair and proper in your particular case.On your part you have been very reasonable in your dealings with this landlord.Regarding the landlord,I feel he is only starting to wake up at the fact that you are really serious about the claim against him now.

 

2.The landlord may worry that he will be made to pay more than the £425 and thus cough up quicker.This is because the general view is that judges are more understanding towards tenants than landlords.Personally I think each case is treated on its merits.Anyway,this is how you "bluff your opponent" with one objective at face value but your REAL main goal is another i.e. to see that you get your deposit refunded.

 

I hope you find these points useful.

[Nightmare4banks]

Cpt Black,

 

Yes,the documents should be filed but at the end of the day the final decision will be with the judge.

 

Personally,I have done this in the past and I would not think there would be any difference in Scottish Law however I will not comment here as Knoxvillian will have to take note of this as I know nothing at all about Scottish Law/Court Procedures.

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian in reply to your last post:

 

1.Put the following words in your claim form:

 

"This claim is unfixed and up to the value of £750 including interest at the Daily County Court Rate - Small Claim".

 

2.Do as Cpt Black has suggested regarding the list of expenses etc but delete the amount claimed for waiting in the post office and change it to an hour towards your loss of earnings as it maybe perceived as "doubling up" on your part with loss of earnings - just my 2p's worth here!

 

3.Then write as follows:

 

"I will leave the Honourable Court to decide the quantum of the claim including interest upon the inspection of the documents and truth statements

that have been submitted by both parties".

 

4.Do not forget that judges tend to believe that if an ordinary layperson like what we are here on this forum goes to all the bother to make a claim

"with the balance of probabilities" has a genuine case.

 

However this would not apply in the case of

a silly,petty or plain daft claim which of course yours does not fall under any/all of these catergories.

 

5.To be perfectly honest with you the claim could sway either way but I feel that this landlord's costings are too excessive which is the central issue of the whole case.

 

Anyway,I hope you find this information useful.

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian in reply to your last post:

 

I cannot see why not as I did this with success here in England several years ago and my opponent doubled the offer prior entering the judge's chambers and the agreed amount was endorsed by the judge without a hearing.

I received the money about one month later.However,if you do this you cannot recover your claim fee.

 

 

As I mentioned before I do not have a clue about Scots Law/procedures.

 

However,I have found a few links that should be useful:

 

LINK ONE:

 

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/sheriff/small_claims/forms/taking_claim_to_court.pdf

 

 

LINK TWO:

 

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/sheriff/small_claims/forms/what_is_small_claim.pdf

 

There are some examples would should be able to help you out further.

 

Also,having quickly glanced through the site I noticed two important points:

 

1.If your claim is less than £200 you cannot claim back any expenses.

 

2.If your claim is of a value between £200 and the upper ceiling £750,the maximum amount you can claim in expenses is £75.

 

Also,I note that Claimant is called Persuer and Defendant is called Defender.

 

I would also suggest that you contact the court service for some guidance regarding which form to fill in - if it makes any difference after explaining your case i.e. you want the judge to decide how much to award you between £200 and £750 including County Court interest.

 

Anyway,I hope you find this information useful.

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian in reply to your last post:

 

1.You should be able to get your £39 if the case is heard.

 

2.The expenses should not include this fee.

 

3.Of course,again this would depend on the judge.However,as a rule of thumb the costs are normally awarded in favour of the winner plus the court fee.

 

Anyway,I hope you find this information useful.

[Nightmare4banks]

Cpt Black in reply to your last post:

 

1.The court fee has nothing to do with deciding the outcome of the case so it should not be mentioned to be claimed back.Also,in my view it looks like the person persuing the claim has already assumed that the judge has made his/her mind up to be on the claimant/persuer's side - not very good.One should never assume how a judge would deal with a particular case.

 

2.Other reasonable expenses should be mentioned.

 

3.Knoxvillian should challenge the excessive cleaning costs and any other excessive deductions.

 

4.Don't forget judges always apply the REASONABILITY TEST in their decisions.You therefore have to ask yourself would a reasonable person pay £x for bla bla ??

 

5.Here knoxvillian (as I have mentioned before) should see to intimidate the landlord with the potential £750 including interest claim and avoid

a hearing at all costs.

 

Anyway,this is my 2p's worth!

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian in reply to your post:

 

What was the reason(s) given by the CAB for not being able to persue an undefined claim?

 

Because in my view,this seems a bit odd.

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian in reply to your last post:

 

1.What you are saying makes sense.Anyway,if you win you will get your fees as well back.However,Mr.Shed did bring up the issue about the inventory as it is essential that it would be signed by both the landlord/tenant otherwise any deductions on part of the owner would not be feasable.

 

Mr.Shed,I will tend to disagree with you with all respect and of course you would not find a better person that would more than like to entertain a sensible debate about anything like myself.Just to add a credit card debt is a personal debt and associated with that particular person whereas the bills that I had previously mentioned are associated with the property together with other related comments/potential arguments on behalf of the landlord in this sort of scenario.Whether the court accepts the landlord's argument or not this is a totally seperate matter.

 

Anyway,this is my 2p's worth!

 

Also,Knoxvillian good luck!

[Nightmare4banks]

Mr.Shed,

 

I could rant on forever!

Damn but you have stopped me!lol!

[Nightmare4banks]

Mr.Shed,

 

Sorry to be a party pooper,but not for long!lol!

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian,in reply to your post:

 

This would be a good idea as the court could probably throw out the case as you are not available.

 

All you should state is:"I will not be available to attend the hearing between bla dates because of my honeymoon which was booked well in advance."

 

I hope you find this useful.

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian,

 

I would suggest hat you contact the court ASAP and explain the situation.

 

As the last you want is for a hearing date to be allocated and you are not available to attend.

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian,

 

Keep me posted.

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian,

 

In the future,I would suggest

 

1.that you obtain certified copies of the original bills have a few copies to give out - one to the landlord and one to the court if needed.Take the originals to the hearing with you if needed.

 

2.To certify copies,it would only cost you a few quid with a lawyer and it used to be free at the court office - not sure now though.

 

In brief in the future - DO NOT GIVE OUT ORIGINAL BILLS!

 

I hope this helps.

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

Knoxvillian,in reply to your post:

 

1.You did the right thing by making sure that your landlord never took you for a ride.

 

2.You also did the correct thing by listening to the judge - I have done the same thing in the past and in my case it was a real eye opener.

 

3.The ARLA rules are just a form of good business practice - fairness for both landlords and tenants alike.Reasonability dictates the flow of a court hearing rather than anything else and this based on my personal experiences.

 

4.Move on and enjoy your married life.If you have anymore landlord problems,please feel free to ask anytime!

 

All the best!