@Livewell_today - Faulty Disability Scooter from a month after receiving it.

[letsgetitsorted]

Just after some advise please.

 

in September 2020 i purchased a new scooter from Livewell Today https://www.livewelltoday.co.uk/, the scooter arrived on the 17th September and was delivered to the pavement outside our house,

 

i followed all instructions on setting up and using the scooter and was charging it the same way as I did with my old scooters.

 

in October the scooter failed and refused to go anywhere, i phoned the company and they sent me another set of batteries,  an engineer was booked for 3 weeks later to fit said batteries , he came out inspected and said it was all fine, scooter

 

lasted another month, i phoned them again and this time i was sent instructions on how to use the scooter and charge the batteries (run the scooter round the block then put it on charge for 12-16 hours then repeat for another 12 times) did this and scooter failed again,

 

didn't use it then until march this year did a 1 mile trip on the scooter and the thing died again, phoned them up and told them that the scooter had failed and all that was happening was the lights on the dash was flashing and then going out, they sent me a new head unit and also a set of batteries and arranged for an engineer to visit,

 

4 weeks later i get the engineer visit he replaced both parts and the scooter failed to start and told me that the scooter needs to go back and be sorted and he even noted on his report that i wasn't happy and i needed this thing sorting.

 

that was on Wednesday 28th April, i left it until the following Tuesday to get in touch with them, at which point they said the scooter needed to be picked up and sent to Bristol to be repaired and they would arrange collection, good i thought, but not the case, the courier they use does not attended the Isle of Wight and they would have to send me a box to put the scooter in and then store until they could arrange a courier to collect.

 

at which point i stated that i would need to know when the collection of the scooter would be and that i would like to know how me a disabled person would get a scooter in the box (5ft x 3ft x 3ft) and then store it safely when i had nowhere to store the scooter, because of the size of the box it isnt as easy as storing in house then handing to courier

 

.i did say i could possible get both the box and scooter (separately)  to our church where i could store it but i would need to know for definite when it would be collected, i then suggested they gave me a suitable refund and that i keep everything and get the scooter sorted out myself,

 

the lady i spoke to said she would speak to her manager and would get back to me later that day, well a week has passed and i phoned them today to see what was happening, the lady i needed to speak to was on the phone so i left a message for her to call me back. waited all day today and no phone call,

 

i was just checking my email and i see an email from Livewell that was sent 10 minutes after i called this at luchtime, 

and here it is

 

Quote

 

Upon further review of the engineers report by my manager, which has been provided by Homeserve, we are unable to accept your item scooter back for repairs

 

The cause of the fault has been put down as invalid claim due to the electrical failure from water ingestion. The report also refers to rust on the batteries and therefore corroded, again which is a contributing factor in the scooter not being operational. Therefore the condition of the scooter, water ingestion and rusty batteries are not a manufacturing fault but user damage.

 

We would suggest you see if a local mobility engineer can attend to try and repair it for you. However due to cost of multiple parts needed due to rust/water and the cost of the parts, this may add up to more than the scooter is worth

 

 

 

any help and advice on this would be greatly appreciated 

many thanks 

Lets

 

 

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi Manxman

No not seen any copies of the report at all, only told what was going in the report along with recommendation the scooter gets taken back.

no knowledge of any water damage, scooter was never used in the wet and always stored under a porched area.

no notice of any water damage at all not without getting right down to the back of the connecttons where the battery pack plugs in, 

 

Hi Slick

the scooter was £539 including free delivery 

i paid by visa debit card 

I did on the phone last week, told them that when they get the scooter back i dont want it back and want a full refund.

 

Hi BF 

since my last visit here, i have been quite poorly both with mental health, meningitis, as well as pain ....only just remembered bout Consumactiongroup when i checked back on my email.

just gave them chance to sort it.

the engineer showed me a pic of the rust within the shaft, when i inspected the controller the he replaced i pointed out the lack of seal where they key goes in therefore even if the scooter did get wet water would have been able to enter that point 

 

i will be doing a formal letter of rejection and also a DSAR today and will also take pics of how the scooter is stored 

 

 https://www.livewelltoday.co.uk/powered-mobility-independence/mobility-scooters/portable-mobility-scooters/livewell-jaunt-plus-mobility-scooter/c-23/c-95/p-745

 

Thank you all for advice, will let you know the outcome of the email i will send rejecting the scooter 

 

cheers 

Lets

 

 

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi BF

i have been contacting them since January trying to get the scooter sorted,

 

the rust in the shaft is what they are referring too is what the engineer said was there,

 

i haven't seen any pictures of it though, the scooter has not been in the rain or used in the rain,

 

when the engineer changed the head unit i looked at the old one and the unit has not been sealed properly,

 

i will try and have a look at the battery connection points which cant get wet with the battery unit in place and i have always had the charger connected to the battery unit in place on the scooter 

 

cheers 

 

 

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi BF

Today I took a look at the battery connections and cannot see any rust as suggested, the head unit is the part where the key goes and the buttons and speed control sit, 

I also took this off today and there is a bit of surface rust but there is no sign of anything going down the shaft (steering handle etc) there is no sign of any water going down the cable as also suggested.

 

Luckily i have my big old scooter to get me around, the smaller one was supposed to say in the car for shopping and the big battered one for walking the dog

 

I have attached all the pics taken today in pdf form 

the last pic shows where the scooter is stored if not in the car 

 

Many thanks for your help and advice 

 

cheers 

Lets

P.s many thanks for editing the original post 

 

scooter pics, forgot to attach them to post above

scooter pics.pdf

Edited May 21, 2021 by letsgetitsorted

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi Slick 

I was thinking of sending them the pictures i have taken to argue the points and also to formally reject the scooter and demand a full refund...whats your thoughts.

 

cheers

lets 

[letsgetitsorted]

Good morning 

should I question the report, send my pictures, do a DSAR  or just write a short letter stating i am seeking advice and that the issue isnt over 

 

thank you 

cheers

Lets

[letsgetitsorted]

hi BF 

There should be some sort of seal under the control panel, sealing the buttons, key switch and speed control, however on the one that was is pictured there is just  a blob of heatgun glue and not enough any proper sealing, as you will be able to see from the pics there is just surface rust on the bit where the handle bars attach to the main column 

 

cheers

lets

 

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi All 

Last week I received an unexpected call from Livewell, she was returning my call from the week before, I explained to her what the situation was and didn't agree explaining where the scooter was kept and how was used when it was running. 

told her i had taken the head of the scooter and looked at the wiring and took pictures , she was adamant that they where standing by the report, i asked if i could have a copy of the report , the report is attached. 

I told her I will send the pictures I had taken to her ( just about to do) with me saying that she said that she will reopen the case, so will see what comes of that. 

before i send in the letter before claim kindly put together by BF (thank you )

cheers Lets 

 

scooter.pdf

 

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi Slick 

many thanks for you response I will be digesting the report more closely ( not easy with a knee the size of a rugby ball) actually got my full phone records to identify all the times I have phoned them...

hi BF

i will monitor closely and thank you again 

 

many thanks both

cheers

lets 

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi BF 

many thanks for your help and information, i haven't been able to get an independent inspection as they want around £100 to do it, which we don't have spare.

here is my adapted letter of claim i also sent the photos i had taken showing no rust and also where the scooter was kept 

i was told i would get a call back after their manager looked at the case again(which she reopened) and still no response.

took me a while to get this sorted as i managed to sustained a bad knee injury 

many thanks 

Lets

 

Quote

 

Dear Sir/Mdm

Letter of Claim

As you know, I purchased the Livewell Jaunt Plus mobility scooter from you on 9^th September 2020. This scooter was delivered on 15^th September 2020, However after a few weeks of use the battery pack failed to hold a charge, I contacted Livewell on 09 Oct 20 at 14:45:47hrs to notify Livewell of the fault.

Instead of rejecting the scooter out of hand, I contacted Livewell to give a chance for the scooter to be repaired/or replaced, as such a new battery pack was sent out and received on the following Tuesday, a phone call was received from Homeserve to arrange for the battery pack too be switched over and the scooter to be checked for faults. However, the Homeserve technician did not actually attend to look at the scooter until the first week of November 2020.

Upon the engineers visit, he changed and checked the battery pack as well as the charger and said all was well and left, I was unaware of any issues that he may or may not have found as he said it was ok.

 

The scooter was Ok to use for a short period ,bearing in mind weather and time of year the scooter was not used much however I had to contact Livewell on 31^st January 2021 when the scooter failed again, I was then told about a charging cycle that the scooter needed to do in order to maintain the battery sustainability, I was also sent an email on 31^st January 201 with the details of this, however I did explain to the technician at Livewell that how the scooter needed to be charged was the same way that I was charging it and also the exact same way as I was charging my bigger scooter.

The suggestion of conditioning the batteries was to take the scooter around the block then put on charge for between 12-16hrs then run again and repeat for around 15 times.

 

With the battery pack failing I was unable to use the scooter at all through February, as the scooter could not go anywhere. I could also not use the scooter in march either and when I did attempt to use it the LED displayed on and then went off, I then contacted Livewell again and the technician I spoke to arranged for a new head unit to be sent out as well as a new battery pack, this arrangement took place on 31^st march 21, arrangements for the Homeserve technician to fit the new parts and battery pack was done with a phone call being received from Homeserve the following day, the technician arrived on 26^th April 21 to undertake this work, however after replacing the battery pack and the head control unit, the technician failed to get the scooter going.

 

when I attempted to cooperate with Livewell by following your instructions and implementing remedial measures including implementing battery charging regimes and also receiving the Homeserve engineer on two occasions in order to carry out further remedial work.

None of these measures have had the effect of producing a permanent solution and at best, the scooter has worked for a short while and then completely failed once again.

You eventually agreed to have the scooter collected from my home in the Isle of Wight and this was to be sent to you engineering Department for further work, for this purpose I was sent a large box to pack the scooter and batteries in for the purpose of making the scooter ready for your collection.

As you know, I am disabled – that is the reason why I need the mobility scooter in the first place – and I was unable to package as well as store the packed scooter while I wait for it to be collected, I also informed Livewell of the fact that I also had steps going onto the pavement where the scooter would be collected from.
 

I did received the Box and this measures roughly 6ft x 3ft x 3ft not something I would be able to move out of the house and store outside as I would have nowhere to store it.

 

I informed you of this difficulty and to my surprise I had nothing further until I was eventually obliged to telephone you. I telephoned twice and each time I was informed that I would receive a telephone call from your manager and despite the fact that I waited in all day, this did not happen.

 

When I eventually did speak to somebody, I was told that in fact you would not be able to arrange collection because your courier did not service the Isle of Wight area. Apart from the fact that this was a complete reversal of what you had originally promised me, I notice that you had no difficulty in having the mobility scooter delivered to me on the Isle of Wight when you were in the business of selling it to me.
It is only now that there are problems with it that coincidently you are apparently unable to find a courier who will visit to collect it.

About a week later with no communication from you, I I suddenly received an email informing me that you had decided that the entire problem had been caused by some ingress of water  which had apparently caused rust.

This this was completely new information and had never been suggested at all by the engineer  who visited me. Furthermore, this is not my first mobility scooter and I have experience of them and this was well stored undercover and not in a damp environment.

Additionally, because of all the problems experienced with it, the mobility scooter has scarcely been used since it arrived in September 2020.

 

It is clear that the mobility scooter is not of satisfactory quality and furthermore I have been deprived of fundamentally the whole benefit of the contract to the extent that your breach of contract amounts to a fundamental breach.

I'm writing to you that I'm accepting that the contract has been fundamentally undermined and that I have no further confidence in either the scooter or Livewell.

I require reimbursement in full of the purchase price and additionally that you should make immediate arrangements to collect the mobility scooter from me.

If you do not reimburse me and collect the scooter within 14 days of this letter and I shall begin County Court proceedings against you and without any further notice.

In addition, if you have not collected the mobility scooter by the end of 14 days, I shall apply a daily storage charge of £3 a day for the scooter and £3 for the Box to pack it in, until such time that the scooter is collected by you and I shall include a claim for the storage charge in my County Court claim for your breach of contract.

 

 

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi BF

No the information about the battery conditioning came on 31st January there was nothing on the website and nothing about it in the handbook, i did notice in the handbook it said could not use the scooter in the rain, which i didnt do, after all who wants to get wet for no reason.

No the letter has not gone yet, just needed your input just in case i missed something 

 

many thanks 

Lets

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi BF 

the first battery replacement took place in October 20, the battery leaflet which by the looks of it are missing instructions 1& 2, 

however they were sent via email on 12/1/21.

 

they were provided after I had rang them saying the batteries had failed again i also explained that i hadn't actually used the scooter through December 

 

is there anything i need to add to my letter of claim 

 

many thanks 

Lets

charger.pdf

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi BF

many thanks for that, i have now sent it off recorded delivery so will see what happens.

will keep you posted 

cheers 

Lets

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi BF 

Many thanks for that, i have now sent it off recorded delivery so will see what happens.

will keep you posted 

 

I am just doing the claim online and this is what I have put in the particulars of claim

 

Quote

I purchased a Mobility Scooter from Livewell 
Today Ltd on 9th September 2020, it was received by me on 15th September 2020

in October 2020 the scooter failed and has not been of usable quality since then, Livewell today has 
breached the contract of the sale by not supplying a mobility scooter of usable 
quality.
I have given Livewell the opportunity to repair the either repair or replace the scooter but they have failed on this.

I will also be claiming for the interest on the monies outstanding at the court rate of 8% per day as well as for the storage  of the mobility scooter as well as the cardboard box that was sent send the 
scooter back in at the rate of £3 per day for each of these items.

 charges will be from 13th July 2021 and will continue up to the date that the issues with the scooter are resolved.

does it sound ok to you

many thanks  

Lets

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi BF

i have just received this email from Livewell ...my thought is just to reply with this 

Quote

Many thanks for your attention in this matter, I have no problems with the scooter being collected, however I will need to know who and when it will be collected and also, the scooter once it is with your couriers that a full refund will be received with me, I do not want the scooter repaired the fault has been an ongoing fault from the start and I have lost all confidence in both the scooter and Livewell today 

 

here is their email

 

Quote

Thank you for your letter addressed to Livewells director, I'm sorry to see you felt the need to contact him directly but understand that we haven't got back to you in a timely manner, which I'm very sorry for. I'm also sorry to hear about the numerous concerns you have had regarding your scooters reliability since you purchased it around 10 months ago. We do all we can to ensure we're selling quality mobility products at the most affordable prices, so to hear the issues you have reported with your scooter does cause me, and the company, some concern.

 

I have seen the report which HomeServe conducted on our behalf, and also compared this to the photo's that you provided of the scooter. What I'd like to propose is that we arrange to collect the scooter from you and have it sent back to its manufacturers, Drive Devilbiss, in order for them to full assess where the issue lays with the scooter. Once Drive have conducted this investigation, if the reason for it not working is down to a manufacturing fault then I will be happy to issue a full refund to you. 

 

In order to get the scooter collected from you, it would need to be packaged in some way. I have read & understood your concerns about this, however there simply isn't a way that we can collect a scooter from you without it being packaged in a box. You rightly say that we have no issue sending a scooter to the Isle of Wight and this is because it's in its original packaging, so whilst we also have no issue collecting from the Isle of Wight, it would need to be packaged in order for any courier to arrange to collect it from you. 

 

Please let me know your thoughts on what I've proposed and I'll be happy to make the necessary arrangements once I hear back from you. 

 

cheers

Lets

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi BF

i have just received this email from Livewell ...my thought is just to reply with this 

Quote

Many thanks for your attention in this matter, I have no problems with the scooter being collected, however I will need to know who and when it will be collected and also, the scooter once it is with your couriers that I will receive a full refund , I do not want the scooter repaired the fault has been an ongoing fault from the start and I have lost all confidence in both the scooter and Livewell today.

So far the scooter has been seen by an engineer appointed by Livewell and now you say that you will send it to your supplier/manufacturer, both of which are not independent of Livewell. 

Please bear in mind that I am disabled , please can you let me know how I am suppose to package the scooter ready for shipment, as the scooter has been faulty from the October 2020, I do believe the packaging of the scooter and the collection should fall upon the responsibility of yourselves, Livewell, As previously stated the box is 3ft x 3ft x 6ft and i have no means on how to get the scooter in the box let alone down the steps leading to the pavement. With this in mind I am willing to extend the deadline for filing the County Court Claim to 21st July 2021 giving Livewell time to arrange collection and the full refund of the scooter 

here is their email

 

Quote

Thank you for your letter addressed to Livewells director, I'm sorry to see you felt the need to contact him directly but understand that we haven't got back to you in a timely manner, which I'm very sorry for. I'm also sorry to hear about the numerous concerns you have had regarding your scooters reliability since you purchased it around 10 months ago. We do all we can to ensure we're selling quality mobility products at the most affordable prices, so to hear the issues you have reported with your scooter does cause me, and the company, some concern.

 

I have seen the report which HomeServe conducted on our behalf, and also compared this to the photo's that you provided of the scooter. What I'd like to propose is that we arrange to collect the scooter from you and have it sent back to its manufacturers, Drive Devilbiss, in order for them to full assess where the issue lays with the scooter. Once Drive have conducted this investigation, if the reason for it not working is down to a manufacturing fault then I will be happy to issue a full refund to you. 

 

In order to get the scooter collected from you, it would need to be packaged in some way. I have read & understood your concerns about this, however there simply isn't a way that we can collect a scooter from you without it being packaged in a box. You rightly say that we have no issue sending a scooter to the Isle of Wight and this is because it's in its original packaging, so whilst we also have no issue collecting from the Isle of Wight, it would need to be packaged in order for any courier to arrange to collect it from you. 

 

Please let me know your thoughts on what I've proposed and I'll be happy to make the necessary arrangements once I hear back from you. 

The Manufacturer of the scooter is  Drive Devilbliss and his is what is on the Livewell page 

2017 – Livewell consolidated its supplier base to buy exclusively from Drive DeVilbiss, one of the world’s largest suppliers of mobility equipment. 

 

so not much chance of impartiality 

 

Hi Manxman

I will be giving a couple of the local companies a shout and see what they say, 

cheers 

lets

 

Cheers Lets

 

 

cheers

Lets

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi all

I sent this to Livewell via their email address on 7th July got an auto response that said i would get a response in 4-6 hrs however it took a week to get to me via email 

Quote

Dear Sir/Madam

Many thanks for your attention in this matter, 

I have no problems with the scooter being collected, I have found someone that is willing to come to my home address to pack the scooter for transport,  however there will be a charge for this and that will be £30 of which I will be looking to claim that back from Livewell, I have had to go to get someone to do the packaging as I am disabled , hence the need for the scooter in the first place, I will however will need to know who and when it will be collected so that I can arrange for it to be packed outside and on the pavement as previously stated have no storage for a boxed and packed scooter.

 

Once the scooter has been collected by your appointed courier, I will expect full reimbursement both for the cost of the scooter and also the cost of the person to pack it for transport at total of £569.10

 

As a gesture of goodwill, I will forgo the cost of packing the scooter provided the scooter is picked up and refunded within the next 10 days. This will mitigate any further loss to Livewell for the scooter, storage fees both for the box and scooter, as well as the packing fee not to mention the interest that will also be claimed should I be forced to take this to court.

 

As for having the scooter inspected by the manufacturers is not an option as the inspection will not be classed as impartial as Devil Bliss Healthcare are the exclusive supplier for Livewell, as stated on your own website.

 

Further to the above, as it has taken me a few days to respond to your Email, I will extend the deadline for me to proceed with County Court proceedings to 21^st July 2021 if nothing has been actioned by then, I will procced with the action against Livewell Today Ltd without further notice.

 

When I purchased the scooter from Livewell today Ltd, I was not just buying the scooter, I was purchasing the support offered and the reputation that Livewell Today have, however I feel that Livewell Today have failed to meet my needs of supplying a fully functional working scooter and as such failed in all aspects.

 

I look forward to your swift response

 

this was their response that i got today

any thoughts

Many thanks 

lets

 

Quote

Thank you for your reply to my previous email.

 

Whilst I feel I can understand your situation, paying for somebody to package the scooter for you isn't something we would be willing to cover. 

I feel we have already gone above & beyond what would usually be expected by offering to collect the scooter for further assessment, after an independent technician from HomeServe reported the rust on the scooters electrical components. You have since opposed that report, stating the scooters faults are not down to any rust/corrosion present, which we were happy to address, but I feel we're now being asked to perform tasks that no retailer would be expected to do. We don't pay for a third-party to re-pack an item, neither do we pay for alleged 'storage costs'. I'm very happy to arrange to collect the scooter from you so that a full assessment can be made, however if you're concerned that neither Livewell nor Drive Devilbiss will do this independently then I'd focus our attentions back to the HomeServe report which was initially conducted which states there's rust/corrosion on various metal components, which is resulting in poor performance from the scooter. 

 

I want to be fair here Mr Randall, but I feel that isn't being reciprocated and therefore can't agree with many of the requests you're making of us as a company. 

 

[letsgetitsorted]

Hi All 

Sorry BF for not replying sooner to your last response, not been well, 

i have today drafted another email to Livewell

details below, any further thoughts before i send it or is it ok 

 

many thanks 

Lets

Quote

Dear Sir/madam 

Many thanks for your email regarding this faulty scooter. may I apologise for the delay in  getting back to you , I have had a bad spell so not been able to do much. 

 

In your first part of your email you say 

"Whilst I feel I can understand your situation, paying for somebody to package the scooter for you isn't something we would be willing to cover. "

 

May I point out that, you are completely wrong, as until the fault/faults have been identified it is the responsibility of Livewell to cover all associated costs in returning the scooter, this will include not only the courier charges/fees but any costs incurred in making it ready to send.

 

You also state that 

I want to be fair here Mr Randall, but I feel that isn't being reciprocated and therefore can't agree with many of the requests you're making of us as a company.

 

It is not a case of being fair it is a case of Livewell standing up to their  statutory obligations.

 

As for Livewell collecting the scooter, I am more than happy for that, as the scooter has been faulty since October 2020 as first reported and as when the first set of replacement batteries. again I will need to arrange for the scooter to be packed accordingly, unless Livewell can arrange this, again there will be a charge for this as I will not be able to do this my self.

 

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 tells me , I should not loose out financially as a result of the Breach of Contract   and accordingly all costs of returning the item to Livewell should be met by Livewell

 

I will give Livewell a until 12th August 2021 to contact me with the necessary arrangements to collect and reimburse myself for the costs incurred for the scooter and also for the cost of the packing of the scooter.

Failure to make these arrangements will leave me, without further notice, but no choice to issue a County Court Claim for the scooter cost and all other costs incurred including the costs for storage of the scooter and packing box from that date .

 

thank you for taking the time to act on this matter and I trust, we will get this sorted.

 

yours faithfully