Virgin, mystery extra line: 2 judgments for Data Protection breaches - so far!!

[lemon_martini2]

We now have a judgment gone through!

So the state of play is:

Claim 1-JUDGMENT ISSUED(£302)- being dealt with by Sunderland Crown Court bailiffs. According to moneyclaim, the 'final return result' (whatever that might be) went through today

 

Claim 2-JUDGMENT ISSUED(£225)- judgment issued today, warrant applied for.

 

 SAR request for mystery line-deadline expires on Thursday-if no reply I shall put in a further claim as they have still not complied with the request within the timeline specified by law.

 

I wonder how many CCJ's they are going to collect on this?

Is it going to be a perpetual cycle of submit SAR,no reply,submit claim,no reply,get judgment,no reply,send bailiffs in? 

 

[lemon_martini2]

Well that last post was rather timely as I received an email today from the ICO about my complaint. 

 

According to them 

'If they have not done so already, we expect Virgin Media to fully address your complaint by telling you what they are going to do to put things right or if they believe they have met their data protection obligations by explaining how they have done so. We expect them to contact you within 30 days'

 

So the clock is ticking on that too for Virgin...

 

[lemon_martini2]

Letter of claim sent. However, it seems we have another hitch- I have received a rather badly typed note from the court stating that the warrant has not been executed as it is 'generally unenforceable-address does not exist'. This is the address that is given by Virgin on their site as their Complaints Department. 

[lemon_martini2]

It is indeed the same address that I have used all the time for claim papers and SARs.

Just to confirm,this is the warrant for the first claim that has come back-issued on 18/1- it seems that this is the 'final return' that appeared on the Moneyclaim site for this warrant on 9/2.

 

 

[lemon_martini2]

The address I used for all complaints,letters of claim etc. was Complaints Department, Virgin Media, Sunderland SR43 4AA. That's the address quoted in their Consumer Complaints Code of Practice.

[lemon_martini2]

OK I've been in touch with Sunderland County Court and I'll have to get back in touch with them tomorrow to speak to the bailiff in person .

 

What I've been told is that it isn't simply a 'not known at this address' because they've moved or the address given was incorrect in which case it would have to be redone completely. Apparently, there's another company they deal with regularly where the SR43 postcode doesn't exist, it's just a maildrop, so any court business automatically gets reissued to a specific address where there is a physical building and they think that's what we might have to do here.

 

Apparently they can't just register a web of half a dozen different mailbox address for different departments so that the customer has to play roulette to find out which one is the 'correct' one, or that in fact none of them are. There has to be some location where papers can be filed, documents served etc. 

 

I'll see tomorrow what the bailiffs are able to do-if it's simply a matter of a different address in the same location, they may be able to amend it given that it was the company itself that supplied the incorrect information.

 

Meanwhile, they are living up to their usual high standards. This morning I received an email stating that my SAR had been received on 25/1. Which is not only two weeks after it was actually received, but contradicts their email of 4/2 stating it had been received on 1/2....

[lemon_martini2]

So apparently the nice big building at Sunderland has no-one there at the moment-it's just being used as a storage for their vans.Although they have many different departments all over the place registered at Companies House,the bailiffs have recommended going with their address at 500 Brook Drive Reading as that's listed as their head office and where their finance department is so there will be someone who is physically present and has (supposedly) access and authority to get to some sort of money or goods when they turn up-it can be reissued for free but I'm not quite sure how to do that-apparently it needs a Form N445?

Meanwhile Virgin have sent more files which appear to be incomplete-certainly some are showing as not updated since 17/12/2020 but there is no way of seeing what has been added or amended to those that been have changed in January since once more they haven't sent the password and I'm being told since the number is no longer on their network they cannot send it...

[lemon_martini2]

OK here's we are so far-second warrant has been paid and sent for using the 500 Brook Drive address in Reading (that's what's given as their head office).

According to the Warrant Hub, as there's a new warrant out using the Reading address, the existing one can simply be transferred over from the Sunderland one without having to do an N445. 
And finally Virgin have sent over files with a password. It looks like there's more in here- there's at least 9 calls and they all seem to be complete, so I shall peruse them to see what's there and just as importantly what's missing.

[lemon_martini2]

There were three points that leapt out from what they've sent.

 

One is that the original offer WAS changed by them-it was £500 plus removal of all data,closure of all accounts and the handset costs to be removed-this was then changed to £500 and I would still be responsible for the account and the cost of the handset which was why I refused it. Interestingly I was told regardless of my decision, the information for the Financial Ombdusman would be sent to me-another thing that has failed to materialize

 

Two is that they state categorically 'we have a signed contract' and yet there is still no sign at all of the one piece of paper that would prove their case for them. I'm putting it in the same category as Nessie and the Yeti in terms of existence..

 

Three is that the ADR they told me I would be sent in 2-3 business days has now reached 30 days without any sign of it- are there any penalties for failing to supply this? And whilst there was no mention of the claims or judgments, they did state in the chat logs that I could not take legal action until I had received the ADR. It's almost a pity that I've gone ahead and done that.

 

 

[lemon_martini2]

Separating out the strands:

 

*CLAIM 1-Moneyclaim for £302. submitted 21/11-judgment obtained 15/12-warrant executed 18/1

*CLAIM 2-Moneyclaim for £302. submitted 15/1-judgment obtained 6/2-warrant executed 23/2

*CLAIM 3-letter before claim sent on 11/2 demanding £620 compensation and full data files as mentioned in post 131-14 days to reply-that deadline expires tomorrow.

 

*SAR for phantom 2nd line sent 11/1- currently checking to see what is in the files as it appears that the data for the two numbers has been interlinked.

 

*The original offer of £500 compensation was referred to in posts 44 and 45- it began as £250 which I rejected, then went up to £500. This included the cost of the handset,the payments already paid and court costs.There was no mention of compensation or that my credit files would be made good so I stated I would not accept it until these were concluded.That offer was then changed to £500 including the cost of the handset,the payments already paid and court costs, but from that I would have to pay back the cost of the handset and the payments already paid.

 

*After I rejected this offer,I was told I would be able to take my complaint to the FOS(which I have in writing) and that they would send an ADR form which would arrive in 2-3 business days. This was on 24/1 so we are now at 30 days later. This was mentioned in post 115 and I also have it in the chat logs. Their rationale seems to be that until I complete that form, I have not gone through their internal complaints procedure which I must do before I can take legal action

 

*I have multiple incidences-in chat logs,letters-of Virgin stating categorically 'We have a signed agreement'.

 

 

 

 

[lemon_martini2]

The warrants have been issued, they still have not actually been carried out.

The disclosure of the SAR appears to refers to both numbers including the mystery handset and is incomplete.
 

I did receive this email today from Virgin-not sure what they're trying to say here- will the data be erased from credit reports?will the outstanding amount they claim is due be erased?will all details about this second handset be erased?

And I didn't actually request them to erase my data-I informed them as I was no longer their customer,they did not have the right to process it without my consent.

Thanks for getting in touch with us about your Data Subject Rights request, which we received on <17/02/2021>. Your data privacy is something we take seriously, and our team are here to help. You asked us to erase your data. We’ll erase everything we can however there is some data we must keep for regulatory or legal reasons (e.g. financial obligations), even once you’ve left us. This will only be retained by Virgin Media for the minimum period required. We’ll no longer contact you unless we’re legally obliged to do so. This may take up to 28 days to come into effect.

[lemon_martini2]

Sent Friday morning 26/2 as that was the day after their previous 14 days expired, so their 7 days expires on 5/3.

 

[lemon_martini2]

 

Credit file:

One account(showing balance of £0 due) for main line showing missed payments from December 2020 (when the contract itself was terminated in August 2020).

One account(showing loan of £204 due) for second line showing as being in default since November 2020.

As a result of these my credit score has gone down-this is due directly to these two accounts which showed on my credit report as a 'negative factor'

 

Credit disadvantage:

When my Virgin contract ended, I attempted to take up a new contract with another company.

I was prevented from doing so at Vodafone as they required a deposit of £150, plus I would not be entitled to the free handset, but would have had to pay £179 for it and the monthly payments would be increasd.

I was able to take out a handset at Three, but again instead of being entitled to it free, I had to pay £189 for it.

 

I will check carefully to estimate the amount of time involved-I have queries going back to October 2019 attempting to deal with this.
 

I have also received from Virgin another letter giving me the password to unlock the files they sent me(shame it doesn't actually work) and a second email again confirming they will erase my data unless they have to keep it.

 

I'm wondering if they're planning to use that email as their response for the ICO where he gave them until March 11 to either tell me what they are going to do to put things right or explain why they believe they have met their data protection obligations'?

 

 

 

[lemon_martini2]

We have a happy update- the second claim that was served at the Reading main office apparently has been paid in full today!

 

On the other matters,I rang the number and there is just a message saying 'It has not been possible to connect you to this number.If you have dialled correctly,this number is not registered to a network'.

 

And it was indeed your good self who recommended I make a complaint through the ICO's website way back in October in post 3-they have until March 11 to respond to that.

 

[lemon_martini2]

My credit file was clean before this-the only missing payments or problems are those with Virgin. I did address the question of the number of the mystery handset in the post above-it just gives out the message stated.

I shall get in touch with Sunderland Crown Court about the first claim-the chap from Reading said if it was their area(South East) it would be able to be as you now have an address where it is proved they could be served, but he didn't know if it was the same in every area. Obviously, it is not just a change of address but also a change of area and so a change of court that will be dealing with it.

[lemon_martini2]

Their SAR time limit for the mystery line expires tomorrow-and today's post just brought an undated letter saying they are investigating my complaint and will be in touch shortly...

[lemon_martini2]

Yes,the last letters I have received dealing with my complaint and SAR request all explicitly state 

Complaint Reference:xxxxxxx

Telephone Number: <the unknown line>

 

 

 

[lemon_martini2]

Not so far no.

 

[lemon_martini2]

*So this morning has brought- two identical emails thanking me for my SAR which they received on 22/2 (is it any wonder everyone's getting confused working out which SAR is being responded to when-this is why I have my paperwork in immaculate order...)

 

The letter before claim for the SAR for the mystery second line expires tomorrow-and they have replied! This is their beauty that they will be relying on for proof of purchase! I particularly like the fact in the second line, they even say they can't supply an original invoice. It appears to be some generic document to supply to an insurance company..

 

Tomorrow is also their deadline to confirm they have stopped processing my data or explain why they have the right to-or it's a report to the ICO.

 

Meanwhile, Sunderland court have confirmed that since I was able to get payment on the second claim at the Reading address, I can transfer the first claim over. Have filled out my N445 form-just not quite sure how to send it-does it need to be emailed or mailed as there appears to be no option to send it automatically.

 

[lemon_martini2]

Here we have it... 

Yes they had supplied an IMEI number, I just redacted it on the first one but I think we're past the point of worrying about identifying details. The phone number is exactly as they have supplied it-they put the stars in not me.

VirgPurc2LB.pdf

[lemon_martini2]

The SAR is missing anything with my signature or proof it was me that took out the line.Virgin-despite saying they have a signed agreement-have never produced any invoice,agreement or contract at all let alone one that shows it was me who agreed to it.They have specified the date the phone was apparently bought(Aug 2019) but are unable (or unwilling) to say where. Interestingly, in the details I have received under Account History,it shows the date for this second line as being Aug 2018-the same time I purchased the original phone.

 

It appears the line already is blocked as a quick call to it just produces the message 'Calls to this number are not being accepted.If you have dialled correctly,the number is not available on this network'.

Next tasks are to resubmit the first claim from Sunderland to Reading, put in a third claim as they have still failed to fulfil the SAR, but whilst we're trapped in this cycle of submit claim->they fail to fulfil SAR->submit new claim it is still sitting on my credit report as a default.

[lemon_martini2]

Yes I was referring to the first warrant.

And the postie has brought-another letter(undated) from Virgin...

'We're still looking into your complaint and will be in touch in a few days to talk about the next steps-we're sorry it's taking longer than usual.

Because your complaint is now 8 weeks old,you can choose to have it independently reviewed by CISAS'.

I'm sure the trees of the world are benefitting greatly from their many generic letters...

 

[lemon_martini2]

Update :

Letter was sent off on 11 March giving them 5 days to reply with the documents(specifically anything that is a signed contract for the second handset or anything that shows my agreement to take it out). 

This morning a Virgin branded car pulled up outside and a Virgin man arrived with a letter- which turned out to be another generic 'We're still looking into your complaint and will be with you in a few days to tell you what's happening next' letter.
So they have failed once again to comply with the SAR or produce anything showing I agreed to the second handset.

 

Oxford County Court has confirmed that the payment of £302 for the second warrant(sent to their head office at Reading) has cleared,the cheque will be sent first thing tomorrow and will arrive in the mail by the beginning of next week.

 

To clarify exactly where we are

Warrant 1(sent to Sunderland): unable to find anyone to receive it there, should use a N445 to transfer it to Reading.

Warrant 2(sent to Reading):cheque is in the mail from the court.

SAR requests-still not complied with in full,failed to meet deadline for last letter before claim.

 

[lemon_martini2]

Does the £600 threshold for the sheriffs include court costs? Could I put in a claim for £550, add on the £60 court costs and still qualify?

[lemon_martini2]

Claim submitted for £610 on Tuesday night, just slightly adapting Bank Fodder's excellent suggested wording.

 

'The claimant submitted a valid Data Protection Subject Access Request to the defendant on XXX

Despite being fully aware of this and acknowledging the claimant's complaint on several occasions,the defendant has failed to submit a complete disclosure. The claimant has extended the compliance date twice with no effect. 

This is a continuing failure by the defendants of their statutory data protection obligations, who have already breached two previous subject access requests and as a result have had County Court judgments awarded against them.

As a result of the defendant's failure to completely provide the personal data held about him and his account,despite being granted two time extensions,the claimant has been put to great trouble and has suffered enormous distress which has continued for a considerable time,and according the claimant seeks damages of £610 plus costs.'

 

Letter arrived this morning from Oxford County Court confirming it has been accepted(at least they're nice and speedy) and Virgin have until 5/4 to reply-any bets on whether it will be silence or a random generic letter?