Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[patdavies]

I understand Red Routes enforcement in London is still the preserve of the Met Police & the issuers are proper traffic wardens hence the reference to "Officer" & not council revenue enhancement parking attendants. The Met Police Traffic Wardens CAN issue penalty notices as it IS still an offence to park on a Red Route the parking attendants can't.

 

In which case it cannot be a PCN. These can only be issued by Councils under DPE.

 

If it is issued by Plod/Traffic Warden, it must be an FPN

[khb]

Hi all,

This is my first post. Having spent many hours over two evenings to understand all the issues of PCN validity I am now quite confused. I have received a PCN recently from LB Brent. It does have two dates but no colour of the car and there is no signature of the parking attendant.

I would be obliged for your comments so that I can get me wording right.

Many thanks.

 

http://www.system-solutions.eu/front_ticket.jpg

[corrodedmonkee]

Hi

 

I received a PCN a little while ago, and i'm not sure if its worth contesting.

 

The ticket reads as follows - [omitted] - privacy reasons, they are present on the ticket

 

PCN Number: [omitted]

Date of Issue 04/11/2006

Vehicle Registration: [omitted]

Make: Volkswagen

Colour: Red

 

Seen In Old Manor Car Park

at 13:06 on 04/11/2006

 

Parking attendant 797 has reasonable cause to believe that a Penalty Charge has been incurred because the vehicle was parked in a pay and display car park without clearkly displaying a valid pay and display ticket.

 

Is this valid?

 

Does it require Date on Convention on the ticket to be lawful, or is Seen in adequate?

 

Thanks

 

-note-

 

Also, the parking ticket is also unsigned.

[rogerebaker]

Hi all,

This is my first post. Having spent many hours over two evenings to understand all the issues of PCN validity I am now quite confused. I have received a PCN recently from LB Brent. It does have two dates but no colour of the car and there is no signature of the parking attendant.

I would be obliged for your comments so that I can get me wording right.

Many thanks.

 

http://www.system-solutions.eu/front_ticket.jpg

 

Your PCN appears to comply with the RTA 1991. The colour of the car and the signature are not required by the RTA. The guidance issued to councils however indicated that it should be included. The chances of winning on that basis are a bit thin.

 

Have a good look at the road markings and make sure they are complient. I havnt found one that is yet !!

[rogerebaker]

Hi

 

I received a PCN a little while ago, and i'm not sure if its worth contesting.

 

The ticket reads as follows - [omitted] - privacy reasons, they are present on the ticket

 

PCN Number: [omitted]

Date of Issue 04/11/2006

Vehicle Registration: [omitted]

Make: Volkswagen

Colour: Red

 

Seen In Old Manor Car Park

at 13:06 on 04/11/2006

 

Parking attendant 797 has reasonable cause to believe that a Penalty Charge has been incurred because the vehicle was parked in a pay and display car park without clearkly displaying a valid pay and display ticket.

 

Is this valid?

 

Does it require Date on Convention on the ticket to be lawful, or is Seen in adequate?

 

Thanks

 

-note-

 

Also, the parking ticket is also unsigned.

 

I think your going to struggle with that one. The main issue around dates it is must have two. Yours does.

 

How is the period for payment described !!

[Cybora]

KZ. This is not about whether the PCN is valid it is a private company so non of the Road traffic Act applies. If you do nothing you will get a letter from this company demanding the money. They will then threaten you with all sorts but there is nothing they can legally do. The alleged contract is with the driver not the registered owner so unless you tell them you were driving theres no way they can prove it. The only way they can legally try and enforce this is through a county court and then only if they can identify the driver. Which they cant.

 

When you get the Notice to owner from this company come back on the site and someone will advice you on what to do. Be aware that they will threaten you with collection firms, courts etc etc but they are empty threats.

 

hi, new user hear and need some info fast!

 

I have been issued with a £75 parking fine by UKCPS in Leeds. I have sent off a cheque today (pm) for the full amount as it stated on the back that they would add charges of £3 per day if the amount was not paid by 10days. It has also stated that they will aquire my details from the DVLA to pursue payment requests and ultimatly court proceedings and costs will apply if not paid.

 

What do I do? Do i cancel the cheque and sit tight, or do I laeve this one alone. I've read a few posts but none were that clear, apart fro the quote above, about private companies...

 

Cheers!

[Cybora]

I have noticed it does not state 'date of issue' but does that still count for private parking penalty companies???

The ticket as printed states the following, they do cover so many things which is why i sent the cheque...

 

 

 

 

PART 1

 

Issue Number XXXX

Registration: XXXXXX

Date: 26.11.06

Time: 2056

Time first Observed (if applicable):2046

 

Vehicle Details & Location:

 

Vehicle Make: Peugeot

Colour: Grey

Location: XXXXXX

Issued by: Gary

 

Resons for issue: Observed parking without a valid permit or authrority

PART 2 is payments section which notes the +£3 per day charges after 10 days, payment address, cheques and postal orders accepted (no phone payment facility!) Cheques and postal orders must be crossed and i am to write my name, address and Cr reg on reverse of cheque. A receipt will then be issued.

 

PART 3

 

Late Payments: 'if no payment is made within 10 days, vehicle ownership will be obtained from the DVLA, a letter requesting payment will be issued to the registered keeper and a £3 per day charge will come into force. Failure to pay will result in court action being taken agaist you. Coulrt costs and bailiffs costs will be added to the final sum owed.'

 

(Can they do that?????)

 

PART 4

 

DVLA

 

UKCPS Ltd adheres to the DVLA code of practice for the collection and processing of data.

 

PART 5

 

ADMINISTRATION

 

This parking ticket has been issued lawfully and the collection procedure is prossesed in accordance with the administartion of justice act 1970

 

PART 6

 

DATA PROTECTION

 

the DVLA will be granted access to the UKCPS Ltd data processing office to check the data processing procedures. All reconrds are available as required of the DVLA to be satisfied that all data is used as agreed to insure security of storage and access to compy witht he data protection act 1998.

 

PART 7 refers to police action

 

PART 8

 

LAWFUL ISSUE

 

This parking penalty charge has been issued lawfully. A number of gonvernment organisations operate a wrokign code of practice to which UKCPS Ltd adheres.

To ensure lawful and wthical practiece, such organisations are welcome to asses and review operational procedures.

 

PART 9

 

LAWFUL ISSUE

 

Due to legal procedures it is difficult for UKCPS Ltd to submit verbal evidence beofre court. We therefore regret we are unable to enter into verbal communication. If you need to conact us please do so in writing and allow 14 days for a reply.

 

PART 10

 

REPRESENTATION

 

If you wish to appeal against this parking penalty charge, please state your case within 7 days from issue. Payment must be inclosed with your correspondence. if your appeak is successful your moneywill be refunded in full. Withholding payment whilst in dispute will result in your costs increasing, please allow 14 days for a reply.

 

UKCPS Ltd registered in England Company Number: 5090613

[Cybora]

I was issued with a parking fine from Leeds City Coucil on Sunday where i was parkied in a Taxi bay.

 

It states my car was 'seen in BRIGGATE by Parking attendant XXXX who has reson to believe that a penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle on the following grounds:

 

23 Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle'

 

it dows state 'date of contravention and time' and is signed also...

 

what are the chances of me appealing against this?

 

I have been give x2 from LCC in 2 weeks and one form UKCPS a total of £135 and this is when i come to work!! I'd be better off on the dole io think and gettin the bus lol

[rogerebaker]

Contact Neal heron regarding your leeds tickets. I believe he is on their case. The link is as follows

 

Neil Herron

 

Re UKcps ticket the advice I gave earlier equally applies to them. All the issue with dates etc etc does not apply as it isnt issued under the Road traffic Act 1991. Have a look on the Pepipoo web site (Link on earlier post) Its got lots regarding these sort of companies.

 

regarding cancelling the cheque. I would if It was me but thats entirely your decision. It will probably cost you £10 and you will have to give your bank a valid reason. I would also make sure the cheque is returned to you as I wouldnt be comfortable with them having my bank details.

[seylectric]

These T&C's are deliberatly designed to worry you into paying. I would be interested to see what the "police action" that is referred to in part 7 amounts to!

 

If it's not a police-issued ticket then the police have nothing to do with it; it's a civil matter and the police will (or should) tell you that if you ask them.

 

It really is time that this was sorted out because the stress and worry it causes people is far more important than the financial aspect, and this isn't being addressed. It doesn't fall too far short of "demanding money with menaces" in my opinion, it's a disgrace and something has to be done..

[khb]

hi, new user hear and need some info fast!

 

I have been issued with a £75 parking fine by UKCPS in Leeds. I have sent off a cheque today (pm) for the full amount as it stated on the back that they would add charges of £3 per day if the amount was not paid by 10days. It has also stated that they will aquire my details from the DVLA to pursue payment requests and ultimatly court proceedings and costs will apply if not paid.

 

What do I do? Do i cancel the cheque and sit tight, or do I laeve this one alone. I've read a few posts but none were that clear, apart fro the quote above, about private companies...

 

Cheers!

 

Start with a look at the DVLA website. Google search for: DVLA, Voluntary Code of Practice for Private Car Parking Enforcement. This may give you some hints where UKCPS is going wrong.

 

I had a Charge Notice from CP Plus Limited in a Super Market parking lot in London in 2003. It was enclosed a plastic sleeve with the writing:

 

PARKING NOTICE ENCLOSED

WARNING

IT IS AN OFFENCE FOR ANY PERSON

OTHER THAN THE DRIVER TO

REMOVE THIS NOTICE.

 

You may ask what is wrong with this? CP Plus Ltd is using plastic sleeves for parking tickets to be issued under the RTA 1991. Therefor giving the impression to act with the powers of local government. It is unlawful for private companies to act as if they have enfocement power under the RTA 1991. It's a bit like impersonnating the police. I wrote a letter to CP Plus pointing this out and have never heard from them again.

 

Those private parking enforcement companies are just hired bullies.

 

Hope this helps.

[Cybora]

Start with a look at the DVLA website. Google search for: DVLA, Voluntary Code of Practice for Private Car Parking Enforcement. This may give you some hints where UKCPS is going wrong.

 

I had a Charge Notice from CP Plus Limited in a Super Market parking lot in London in 2003. It was enclosed a plastic sleeve with the writing:

 

PARKING NOTICE ENCLOSED

WARNING

IT IS AN OFFENCE FOR ANY PERSON

OTHER THAN THE DRIVER TO

REMOVE THIS NOTICE.

 

You may ask what is wrong with this? CP Plus Ltd is using plastic sleeves for parking tickets to be issued under the RTA 1991. Therefor giving the impression to act with the powers of local government. It is unlawful for private companies to act as if they have enfocement power under the RTA 1991. It's a bit like impersonnating the police. I wrote a letter to CP Plus pointing this out and have never heard from them again.

 

Those private parking enforcement companies are just hired bullies.

 

Hope this helps.

 

My ticket says

 

PARKING PENALTY CHARGE

UNAUTHORISED REMOVEAL OR INTERFERENCE IS AN OFFENCE

 

and it's in a big fat yellow box!

you don't happen to have a copy of your lette still do you, I might try and get them on those grounds.

 

I have checked the DVLA Code of Priactice for Private Car parking Enforcement and from what i can see, they have covered their backs with this although i'm going to check the signs and make sure everything outside is legit!

 

thanks for you comments guys, much appreciated.

[khb]

My ticket says

 

PARKING PENALTY CHARGE

UNAUTHORISED REMOVEAL OR INTERFERENCE IS AN OFFENCE

 

and it's in a big fat yellow box!

you don't happen to have a copy of your lette still do you, I might try and get them on those grounds.

 

I have checked the DVLA Code of Priactice for Private Car parking Enforcement and from what i can see, they have covered their backs with this although i'm going to check the signs and make sure everything outside is legit!

 

thanks for you comments guys, much appreciated.

 

Hi Cybora

 

It is NOT an offence! Just as them in your letter which law they are referring to.

 

Unless this private enforcement operator is contracted by the local council to enforce parking restrictions on behalf of the council they are well out of order for assuming legal powers they do not have.

 

Here is the relevant extract from the DVLA Voluntary Code of Practice for Private Car Parking Enforcement:

 

"3.3. Company titles, documentation and notices issued in respect of parking violations should not create the impression that action is being taken on behalf of a public body."

 

My gut feeling is that they will not be able to enforce this penalty charge. I would fight this one on principle. Also, do remember that this is a civil case. I.e. before they can force you to pay up they must present this to a court of law such the small claims court where you will have a chance to defend your self. So, don't give in to their bullying.

 

Good luck.

[Cybora]

Thanks so much for your help KHB,

 

I have started to write a letter and have also noticed on my ticket that they have printed my car reg wrong. i have pointed this out but should i include the correct reg or let them search me with their 'granted access' to DVLA data? I can send you a copy of the letter if you like... :-|

[Cybora]

what are the chances of me getting off with one issued by Leeds City COuncil that was issued to me while parked in a taxi bay thing?

 

You would think i would find some where else to park would you! lol

[khb]

what are the chances of me getting off with one issued by Leeds City COuncil that was issued to me while parked in a taxi bay thing?

 

You would think i would find some where else to park would you! lol

 

You have to be either careless or pretty desperate to park in a taxi pay. I think you wil find it quite difficult to get off this one.

[rogerebaker]

what are the chances of me getting off with one issued by Leeds City COuncil that was issued to me while parked in a taxi bay thing?

 

You would think i would find some where else to park would you! lol

 

Im at risk of repeating myself here but neil Heron of metric Martyers is fighting tickets issued by Leeds.

 

He may be able to save you 30 quid

 

Neil Herron

[demon_x_slash]

what are the chances of me getting off with one issued by Leeds City COuncil that was issued to me while parked in a taxi bay thing?

 

You would think i would find some where else to park would you! lol

 

Why were you parked in a taxi bay? If it was an emergency, some councils offer leniency if you write in - the sort of thing that would count would be pulling over to attend a sick child...someone I know was let off because they were dropping off a disabled passenger for an emergency medical appointment [and could prove it]. ()

 

However, if you just parked there because you couldn't find a space anywhere else and are trying to dodge it... not liked on here...()

[JonCris]

khb is correct.

 

It is illegal to imply that they have legal powers. Report them even the local police might be interested that they are referring to a "Police" action

[Templehead]

i had had a civil penalty charge notice put on my car last night in Hereford. I was\parked in a private car park and did not park in a designated parking bay, along with other cars as it was a theater car park and it was full up. My ticket says i have breached the contract code and they have fined me 80 quid, should i pay up or is it worth writing a letter?

[JonCris]

If you have your theatre ticket explain the circumstances & request that it be dropped.

[julianm]

Hi there,

 

Anyone out there understand the law on parking fines when it's the police dishing out the ticket instead of a council parking attendant?

 

I was parked for a few minutes in a loading bay and when I got back to my car, there was a police traffic warden a few cars away. She wasn't writing a ticket or anything, she was just chatting to some women. So I got back in my car and reversed in order to pull away. By the time I was pulling away she had come round and was banging on the side door saying "sir, sir". So I lowered the window, said "sorry", and drove off cafefully. She got my address and ultimately phone number and phoned me and said I have 2 alternatives . ., 1. Come to the police station and accept a fixed penalty notice for parking ilegally and driving away from a police officer (£30.00), or 2. go to court - for the same two "offences". She said she has 2 witnesses, obviously the 2 old women she was chatting to. If it was a parking attendant I would have been within my rights to drive off - and in fact that is what I thought was the case. Anyone got any idea if I have a leg to stand on here? I'm wondering if I should just not turn up at the station and see what happens.

 

Thanks

 

j

[seylectric]

What a jobsworth! To begin with I would call her bluff. You weren't issued with a parking ticket at the time, so that threat is null and void and last time I looked there was no such offence of "driving away from a police officer". So what are there any witnesses to exactly? Nothing!

 

Go to the station and you will probably be charged with something, basically the old trick of getting you to come in to admit your guilt. Can you honestly see two old ladies being bothered to go down to the station and make a statement or turn up in court for an alleged parking offence? (there is no other offence here).

 

Even if they do the officer hasn't followed the procedure of actually issuing the ticket so it's not enforceable anyway! Phone her back and ask that given she must know the law, why is she deliberately ignoring it in order to get a conviction.

[JonCris]

DO NOT GO TO THE NICK

 

As seylectric says it's an old trick. Tell her that if she wants to see you then she can come to your home when you will have either your solicitor present or at the very least witnesses

[swayze]

Just read this thread and thought i would add my two penneth

 

I am also from Blackpool (Just round the corner from you seylectric)

 

Since Blackpool BC took over the parking in town i have been issued with approx 46 tickets 40 of which i have paid All of which i now find out are unlawful

 

So i will be issuing proceedings for the return of the money which has been taken from me unlawfully.

The other intresting point of my case is that i appealed 6 of the tickets through NPAS and won my case:p But NPAS made no mention of the fact that the tickets were unlawfully issued just that they should not have been issued due to the fact that it was the ouncil who had caused the vehicle to be moved into an position that was in contravention of the rules.

 

If NPAS do not know that the tickets are issued in contravention of the rules (all their adjudicators are lawyers or barristers)then how is a layman going to know.