Packlink/Hermes lost ebay parcel - **Settled**

[syd16]

As a private seller on ebay, I sold a premium perfume for £320 using Hermes through Packlink which they then subsequently lost in transit. I didn't take out extra insurance since I had no issues with posting similar sold bottles of it previously.

 

I had to go through the stress of trying to speak to someone and waiting hours on Packlink's webchat. I also had to refund the buyer since they never received the item.

 

After weeks of investigating with Hermes, Packlink eventually declared the item lost and sent me a claim form hoping they would maybe refund me. After I sent the completed form they came back and said that alcohol based items are on their prohibited list (which I had no idea about since I see so many perfumes sold on ebay) and so I cannot make any claim at all and so I stand to lose my money.

 

I spoke with ebay but they declared they have no affiliation with Packlink and Hermes also didn't want to hear anything of it and said I had to deal with Packlink. I thought ebay would take some responsibility since they advertise Packlink on their site and provides greater convenience for sellers. They should also inform me I cannot post the item being on some prohibited list.

 

I have used the resolver site to open cases against Packlink and Hermer but don't think that is going anywhere. I have read elsewhere on similar instances in this forum that users should open a small claims case against Hermes.

 

Is that be something I should consider or the fact that the item is supposedly prohibited and I did not pay for extra insurance it would not be a good idea?

Edited June 12, 2020 by slick132
Use paragraph spacing when posting please. Post edited accordingly

[syd16]

On 12/06/2020 at 13:58, BankFodder said:

Welcome to the forum. We get lots of Hermes cases here – and you should read around and you will see the stories. We will be pleased to help you.

However, you have posted your story in a solid block of text and that makes it very difficult for people to follow and to give you the kind of support that you would otherwise get.

Please will you make sure that you post your comments well spaced and well punctuated so that it is easy for people to read.

 

Sure, will do!

 

On 12/06/2020 at 14:01, BankFodder said:

You can start here:-

 

 

 

Thanks this is very useful. I did go through Resolver to raise a case against Hermes. They said this:

 

Quote

 

"Dear XXX,

 

Thanks for getting in touch with us about parcel number XXX

 

We’re so sorry that there’s been a delay to your delivery; we can see that there hasn’t been an update on your parcel since 18/05/2020. The last tracked point was at the ParcelShop please contact your reseller and inform them of your query so that they can contact the appropriate team at Hermes and chase the delivery.

 

Your reseller likes to ensure their customers have the most efficient resolution when there is a delay in your parcel’s movement so I would advise that you make contact with them and they will be able to help you get this resolved.

 

We understand, however your reseller has their own policies to follow for these scenarios. This is why you’re best speaking directly with them so they can make any further arrangements they feel necessary which may include a replacement or a refund.

 

Kind Regards,

 

XXX

Customer Service Advisor

Hermes Customer Services"

 

 

 

 

So effectively they pushed me towards Packlink. Packlink last said to me:

 

Quote

"Dear XXX,

We apologise for the inconvenience caused by the carrier.

Unfortunately, our terms and conditions are very clear regarding prohibited items.

Also, the item was not fully insured.

Im Afraid there is no appeal process at this point.

Best regards."

 

 

 

 

So from your advice I take it that I should try to claim compensation from Hermes.

[syd16]

Thanks for your assistance!

 

Just to check, it is Packlink who refused my claim for loss.

 

My only contact with Hermes has been through Resolver (their reply above). It's impossible to speak to someone over the phone, the only method of contact with Hermer I can see is through their automated chatbot 'Holly'. I still have 12 days before I can escalate the case to Customer Relations.

 

I take on board what you have stated and from what you have mentioned on the Consumer Rights Act I am prepared to go through the court route. Should I wait to escalate the case first and try to make a claim against Hermes through Resolver?

[syd16]

OK I have tried Hermes but not able to get anywhere with them. I can only raise it to them through their chat system and they came back saying I need to deal with the reseller i.e. Packlink.

 

I am just waiting on ebay in the meantime - I raised the issue with them on the weekend and they have sent a 'white glove' request for a refund and I should hear back in 7-10 working days. I don't think that will go through successfully so if that fails then I will proceed with making a small claim against Hermes. Would appreciate your assistance with that.

[syd16]

Ok thanks I will definitely read up on that. Will get back to you here once ebay confirm.

 

I just read about the others who have had a similar experience with even more expensive items! (guitar and digital camera)

[syd16]

So after all this time waiting on ebay, they have denied my request for a payout so I would like to go ahead with the court claim against Hermes.

 

From what I gather reading around here is that I need to send them a letter of claim and then make the claim 14 days later, is that correct?

Is there a draft letter I can use?

 

I have registered with the mcol website.

Sorry if being naive,

where does the particulars of the claim come into play?

[syd16]

Thanks, I plan to send the letter now via email, post and through resolver. I am 100% on going through with this and will follow the necessary protocols.

 

So to confirm once I send it today, I should then issue the claim on 7th August? Should I include any further information in my claim letter as I see in the example in the other post the value of the item plus postage is mentioned? Or the fact they stated I should go through Packlink but they should be liable?

 

Appreciate your support in this matter for my case.

[syd16]

OK thanks, I will leave resolver out of it.

[syd16]

Ok so I have sent the letter by email (hermessupport@myhermes.co.uk) although I got an auto-reply stating:

 

"Thank you for contacting Hermes.  This email address is no longer a Customer Service contact channel so if you have a question about a parcel, please visit https://new.myhermes.co.uk/help-and-support/contact-us.html where you can use our Digital Assistant, Holly, to log an enquiry with Customer Services or she will point you in the right direction."

 

I have also posted the letter also to Hermes UK, Capitol House,1 Capitol Close, Morley, Leeds, LS27 OWH United Kingdom

 

This is what I stated in the letter:

Quote

RE: Letter of claim
Parcel ID: XXX

Dear Sir/Madam,

On 17th May 2020 I used your service to send a parcel. As you know, you have now reported to me that you have lost the parcel which was sent under the above tracking number.

The contents of the parcel and the value were properly declared to you. The contents of my parcel were valued at £319.99 plus the delivery fee of £2.85.

Despite this you have denied any liability for loss and therefore I am writing to let you know that unless you reimburse me the value of the parcel in full and within 14 days, I shall be issuing a claim in the County Court for the full amount plus interest and without any further notice.

Yours faithfully,
XXX

 

 

[syd16]

They are not kisses, just hiding my name on the forum...they dont deserve my kisses 

 

Thanks, I will post a draft particulars here over the next few days so you can check it first.

[syd16]

How is this for the draft particulars of claim:

 

The claimant used the courier service provided by the defendant courier company to send an item to a third party.
The defendant company has admitted that they have lost the item and yet they refuse to compensate the claimant.
The value of the item sent was £319.99. The delivery fee was £2.85.
The claimant claims full reimbursement of £322.84 (item value plus delivery fee) plus interest pursuant to section 69, County Courts Act 1984.

 

 

Should I mention that I used their services through Packlink since their reason of refusal to claim was that I should deal with Packlink?

[syd16]

ok thanks, I'll submit this then on 10th August as discussed.

[syd16]

On the claim particulars section of the money claim site, it states:

 

You are required to give details of your claim in the box below. If you wish, you may also send detailed particulars direct to the defendant. 

 

Should I select the option to send detailed particulars? I wouldn't have much more detail apart from item value and postage amount which I am claiming for.

[syd16]

ok thanks

[syd16]

I have now submitted the claim!

[syd16]

Sorry I was away so wasn't able to mention here but I have received an Acknowledgement of service and they have chosen to defend all of the claim. They have now have 28 days to file a response.

[syd16]

So on the 28th day Hermes have filed the defence below.

 

They are disputing that I have a contract with them.

 

Any thoughts? I am not sure what they mean I should be put to the strict proof to the value of the claim. It is what the customer paid for it (£319.99 item value + £2.85 postage costs + £35 court fee).

 

 

 

Quote

 

How much of the claim do you dispute?

I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.

 

Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it?

No, for other reasons.

 

Defence

1. If any part of the Particulars of Claim are not expressly admitted or denied below, such parts are denied by the Defendant entirely.

2. The Defendant serves this Defence subject to the following objection to the manner in which this claim is brought. The Particulars of Claim fail to provide details about any contractual relationship which is alleged to exist between the Claimant and the Defendant.

 

Background

3. The Defendant is and was at all material times a company limited by shares in the business of providing delivery services on a business to business, business to consumer and consumer to consumer basis.

4. In addition to providing delivery service to its own customers, the Defendant also works as a subcontractor to provide delivery services to customers of PACKLINK Shipping S.L (“Packlink”) who are a company registered in, Spain with the number CIF B83357863 whose registered address is Calle Amaltea, 9 28045 Madrid pursuant to a pre-existing commercial agreement to carry out delivery services.

5. Packlink provides delivery services to users of the online auction site/retail site ‘eBay.co.uk’. eBay.co.uk users can opt to use the Defendant’s delivery services via Packlink. This means that the Defendant does not have any contractual relationship with
Packlink ‘s customers. They, as is the case with the Claimant, contract solely with Packlink.

6. As there is no contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, the Defendant only has limited (tracking) information about the parcel.

7. The tracking information shows that on or around 17 May 2020, the Shippers parcel entered the Defendant’s delivery network after the Claimant dropped the parcel of at one of the Defendants Parcel shops.

8. The last tracking point for the Parcel was on 18 May 2020 at the Parcelshop and therefore the Defendant accepts that the Parcel is lost.

 

The Claim Value

9. Claimant seeks to recover £357.84

10. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the value of the claim.

The Defence
11. The Defendant denies that it is liable to pay the Claimant the damages claimed for breach of contract and/or negligence.

 

12. This Defence is a response to the Particulars of Claim which are set out in the ‘Particulars of Claim’ on page 1 of the claim form.

Claim Form – Particulars of Claim

13. The first sentence of the Particulars of Claim is denied as the Claimant entered into a Contract with Packlink.

14. The second sentence of the Particulars of Claim is admitted, the Claimant entered into a Contract with Packlink and therefore paid Packlink for the service.

15. The third to fifth sentences of the Particulars of Claim are neither admitted nor denied and the Claimant is put to strict proof.

No contractual relationship

16. There is no contract between the Claimant and the Defendant.

17. The Claimant entered into a contract with Packlink.

18. This was made very clear during the order process.

19. The Claimant should desists with this claim and contact Packlink.

Claim for compensation

20. The Claimant claims £357.84

21. As explained above, it is denied that the Defendant owes the Claimant £357.84

 

 

 

[syd16]

Thanks, I will consider the mediation route.

 

Just to clarify one point though, Hermes' has always stated that they are not contractually obliged and that I should be dealing with Packlink. It was Packlink who originally made the stance that the perfume is a prohibited item and therefore I am not entitled to any sort of claim.

[syd16]

Thanks, just to confirm my telephone mediation date is set for 19th October.

 

Appreciate my argument is slightly different to the other case but I would be interested in knowing about their experience with mediation and how whole process works from start to finish.

[syd16]

Great idea, thank you I will certainly take a look in Facebook.

[syd16]

So I had my mediation with Hermes and it was not successful i.e. we couldn't come to an agreement to settle out of court.

 

This was my mediation process:

 

• First call from the mediator was received at 1:03pm which was close enough to the start of my alotted time of 1pm-4:30pm. The mediator introduced themselves, confirmed the intention of the mediation and asked if I could provide a short summary of my claim and any points I would like to raise with Hermes. I mentioned the claim amount and raised the argument that Hermes inherit the liability under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act even though I booked through Packlink and that there is a systemic problem with Hermes and their business model. The mediator said they will take this to them and call back after discussing with Hermes. Call ended 1:09pm (lasted 6 minutes).

 

• Second call from the mediator was received at 1:15pm and they said that Hermes' stance is that my contract was with Packlink and not with them. Hermes mentioned they had investigated with Packlink and that I did not pay for insurance for my item but they were willing to offer me the standard claim amount of £25 plus £2.86 postage = £27.86. Of course I did not entertain that offer and I said that the whole point of having to pay extra to insure my item against their own negligence is absurd. Hermes also stated that this item was on Packlink's prohibited list. I replied that this so called list was not made clear to me when listing my item on ebay or purchasing the label through Packlink (which is ebay's affiliated choice for purchasing postage) and I would bring up the whole question of prohibited items for consideration by the judge if it goes to court. The mediator asked what I would be willing to settle at. I said I am not willing to budge from my claim amount of £357.84 which includes court costs. They reminded me that they don't see Hermes willing to accept that and that the whole point of mediation is to be willing to be flexible. I stood firm and said I am not budging from this amount and that I am being flexible by not taking Hermes to court and willing to settle now. The mediator said they will discuss with Hermes and call back. Call ended 1:27pm (lasted 12 minutes).

 

• The third call from the mediator was received at 1:32pm and they mentioned that Hermes were willing to offer £300 as a goodwill gesture plus the £2.86 postage costs = £302.86. They said £300 is the maximum they can offer to settle for this process. I stayed resolute and asserted I am not willing to go any lower than my claim amount. I said it's not so much about the money and reiterated that the routine denial of liability and having to pay extra for insurance is a systemic issue with Hermes and that I have evidence that many other customers face the same problem when using Hermes which I am willing to present to the presiding judge if this goes to court. Only if they were willing to pay me back the full claim amount then I would drop the case. The mediator did mention that taking this to court I may also lose which would mean losing further court fees (£55 I believe they mentioned as the fee) as well as time and effort in preparing for the case. I repeated that paying the extra costs and risking the money is not so much of an issue to me. I also added in there that a national newspaper are sniffing around at this story and if a judgement goes against them then I won't hesitate to share with them and across social media a copy of the transcript. The mediator asked if they were happy to share this detail to Hermes which I agreed. They said they will discuss with Hermes and call me back. Call ended 1:36pm (lasted 4 minutes). 

 

• Received the fourth and final call from the mediator at 1:39pm and they said that Hermes were not willing to improve on the offer, reiterating they would argue to the judge that my contract is not with them and is with Hermes so this case cannot be settled through the mediation process and I would receive further details on the next steps. Call ended 1:40pm (last 1 minute).

 

I am somewhat surprised that Hermes were willing to offer up to £300 plus postage costs given their arguments but would not settle by offering my full claim costs.

 

In terms of the mediator's attitude, they did add a bit of pressure in trying to get me to be flexible i.e. settle for a lower amount. I suppose it is their job to get this settled out of court. They did also mention on a couple of occasions that it may be months before this case is looked at, with the covid situation it may not be in person and that I would have to go through the motions and prepare which would take time and effort on my behalf. However as noted above in this thread I wasn't willing to settle for a lower amount so let's see how it plays in court.

 

Any advice on the next steps BankFodder?  

[syd16]

Hi, have not heard anything back yet around court hearing date so just waiting now on that.

[syd16]

Thanks I have checked in MCOL and no updates yet.

 

I will chase them in couple of weeks if I don't hear anything.

[syd16]

Yes last entry is DQ filed on 06/10/2020.

[syd16]

Hi, just to give an update - I reached out to Hermes to settle this for what they offered at the mediation process (£300 + postage costs). I sent Hermes a letter and got a reply via email that they are willing to still agree to settle for this amount and they have now transferred the money directly into my bank account.

 

Apologies BankFodder, I know who would have liked this to go to court and see Hermes lose but I was just a bit fed up of waiting. I was told the court hearing date could have been a long while still due to backlog caused by the pandemic and I just wanted to close this matter and move on. The settlement amount is not too far off the actual item costs so rather than risk losing it all (probably more with the additional court fees) I am fine to settle at this amount.