SPML/LMC anyone claimed for mis selling and unfair charges?

[peterjm]

Jasper

The claim is being bought against you by spml your lender ,capstone are just your mortgage collectors but they bring the litigation as spml agent .

This hearing shouldn't be a real problem just make sure you stay in touch so we can get you a properly viable defence to their actions .

With spml loans they should be regulated by the FSA so their rules will have had to be complied with relating to arrears and management and repossession as a last resort plus there has to be observation of the pre action protocols relating to the proceedings by spml/capstone.

More later so don't worry we'll try and get your arrears payments to an easily affordable level as well.

One thing do you know what your real arrears figure is ie just the payments you have missed totalled up?

Subtract this from the arrears figure they have quoted and this is the charges they have added which will be ridiculous.

This is important for the case

The charges can be claimed back from the fos.

[not another b----- letter]

Update 2

 

I spoke with a Capstone representative and offered £350.00 1st Nov and then £656.00 each 1st month for 6 months due to work coming in and also we have the funds to do it. I asked for a direct debit form. As I said earlier they declined my proposal.

 

Today (30th October) I received yet another letter with a direct debit form!!!

 

Do the departments talk to one another. Who is it I should be talking to (I am going to respond ONLY by letter from now on). Am I right in thinking that I should be talking to the owner of the mortgage (SPML) or am I obliged to discuss my account with Capstone?

 

If I send the Direct Debit form back can they take what they want? e.g. I agreed to £656.00 per month can they take more without informing me first, leaving me with no money to live on?

 

Again thanks to all who have written to me.

 

My partner has sold her house ( before repossession) and she got very little money from it but thats where we have enough to pay the mortgage for a few months until I am back in work.

 

Thanks to everyone who has written in support and given advice.

 

george

 

ps anyone need a joiner?

 

 

George

Because they sent the D/D form it does not mean your offer has been accepted, be very careful with this lot they prefer repossession, find out on Monday if your offer has been accepted and if yes get it in writing, if not you need a N244 form and Ell-enn on the repossessions forum urgently, if its good news on Monday give it a couple of days then check with the court make sure that hearing has been cancelled.

[caro]

With a DD they can help themselves so I would recommend a standing order instead as you control that yourself.

[Crapstone]

Forget some things you read. Forget the politics and just look out for yourself. You can stop the court case but act quickly and get it in WRITING. You mentioned pension credit, so how old are you and how long does the mortgage have left to run? You have to get the charges sorted, as even without them the interest alone makes the payments higher and the term longer. Establish a contact with them and get everything in writing, by fax if need be. Tell them you intend to get your charges back and have recorded all your affairs with them. So that also means you have send them a SAR and more than one, just to check that black pen out.

 

I haven't had many problems with DD, other than them failing to set it up after having several forms sent to them and they choose to take insurance money not owing and cock up the payments but then they have to compensate me.

 

Go to the FOS and create a fuss about their charges. It's not a quick solution but once SPML know you are going down that route, and are serious, they back off. They'll still apply the charges but the threats go away and they are more 'approachable'. When you win they are pussycats, and you can look forward to spotting their mistakes and having them pay you for a change.

 

They will go for a suspended repo. at this stage, regardless of your offer. Reason being is that it, A. They want you out and B. It's there as a back-up in the future as security when they use their charges or more arrears against you. And C. The courts are blind and bound to this route.

 

Pressure them..

Edited November 1, 2010 by Crapstone

[jasperpad]

Hi all

 

thanks for the information.

 

I am 60 years old and the mortgage is set to complete in 2016 or thereabouts.

 

I have been in constant contact with SPML ringing them every month and last year I was making payments of £800 per month via debit card as they wants me to put it onto a Direct Debit and try and take the money at the beginning of the month before I got paid, which was on the 22nd of the month. if they did get the DD I would not have had the money in my account so made the arrangement that I would ring and make the payment each month on the day after I got paid (unless it was a weekend) and kept to this arrangement, but (there's always a but), they kept saying that I was making late payments and charged me £60 for late payments! which meant that instead of me bringing the arrears down by approximately £150 per month it was just £90.00 ..... some help!

 

I have read on another site that I could (I think this is right) sue them as they did not discuss or explain or ask how I was going to meet the mortgage payments when I retired. Does anyone know how I can go about this?

 

I am going to contact my CAB this morning and make sure everything is in order with them and meet with the housing person, and also get the N244 form completed but I am not too sure what to say, but littledotty has helped so will put everything on it that I have put on here and then go and put the form in to the court. then contact Capstone/SPML and make my agreed payment of £350 and ask the questions put here by everyone who has given information.

 

george (head still banging ol)

[jasperpad]

Hi All (again)

 

On the N244 form it asks for a solicitors signature do I need this?

 

I have just spoken to Capstone and explained that my partner is living with me and she is going to make contributions towards the mortgage of approximately £600 per month for the next three months. This plus another minimum of £100 per month brings my mortgage to about £50+- over the mortgage arrangement. They have said they cannot take her contributions into account because she is not on the mortgage account!!!!! I then asked about the fact that she is being paid (to my bank account for pension credits) how does this affect things? Not at all.

 

I asked about the SAR and I have to submit my request in writing and pay £10.00 and the SAR will take up to 40 days? Are they taking the proverbial?

 

my case comes up next Wednesday (10th Nov)and I am now beginning to really panic.

 

I have the N244 form ready to fill in and am panicking about getting this right as I spoke to the CAB this morning and they seem to believe I am going to lose my house.

 

We can make the necessary payments until February and as I said I have a promise (via telephone) for work beginning January plus I am expecting to be in work by the end of this week on a temp contract.

 

I'd run away but I won't leave my partner or my cats!!

 

george

[peterjm]

Whats wrong with the CAB George,they really inspire confidence.A case done through here has yet to be lost and there have been far worse than yours.Will post up exactly what you need to submit later,but George please,please work out your real arrears ie the payments missed and the arrears they claim you owe,this is so important even if its a rough estimate.Youve done everything right by trying to negotiate with them so far and making a more than reasonable offer.

You can spread the arrears over the whole term of the loan ,theres a precedental case to this effect.They are also supposed to be reasonable and accomodating.Get all your correspondence together between you and them.

more later

[jasperpad]

Hi peterjm

The amount I have missed is £4067.57

the charges levied are £740.00

Total interest amounts £132.70

 

I have a large lever arch file with ALL of the paper correspondence ready in date order and section order e.g. payments, letters, statements and everything else from them including the original mortgage from Derbyshire Home Loans company who were the original mortgage lenders who sold my mortgage on to SPML/Capstone

 

george

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[jasperpad]

oh they are claiming about £4900 +-

 

george

[not another b----- letter]

George

You need help with that N244 and some advice and the place to go for that is the Home Repossessions thread, look at the top of the CAG home page you have Main Board, Banks and Credit and Debt click on debt scroll down to the sub forum home repossessions, you need the help of Ell-enn she is part of the site team she will help you with that N244, keep the posting simple such as: Help Repossession Hearing next week, she should respond, you need to do this asap like right now or even sooner.

[jasperpad]

Hi all

 

I feel as though I have taken over CAG for the moment.

 

I have been thinking! I have only a telephone promise of work for January and that's how my main source of income arrives. the agency cannot give me a letter saying they have a job for me so if I go to court with this information they may well throw it out? Am I right?

 

I have all of the dates I missed too!

 

george

[peterjm]

George a quicky all the court is intereste in is the amount of arrears you are in and your ability to repay them, whatever you do,do not say you have a promise of work thats tantamount to disaster and watch what you say on here as capstone troll these sites regularly .

Will write a defence tonight for you ready for tomorrow,ok.

Will ask Ell-enn to give it the once over so its ok, we need to avoid a suspended repo at all costs,one slip and youre evicted.

[Ell-enn]

Hi, what have you put in Q.10 of the N244 form - I can help you with a statement for that part and you need to quote the Norgan case law and S.36 of the administration of justice act? You really need to affix a budget sheet to go with the N244 to show the judge how you will afford the payments going forward. I have affixed the budget sheet we normally use. When filling it in, make sure the amount you are offering towards the arrears is the amount left over after everything else has been accounted for.

 

You say you have a repossession set for 10th November - do you mean you have received an eviction warrant? or is this a possession hearing?

Budget Sheet.xls

[jasperpad]

Hi Ell-enn

 

Thank you for your help.

 

I have looked at the budget sheet and to be honest my current income is less than what I need for the outgoings right now.

 

As I have said my partner and I have enough money to pay the monthly mortgage payments for the next three months minimum, and that I do have a promise of work for January but this is not in writing as all of my work has been via telephone and this work is actually back working on site as a joiner. I do have a number of very very strong possibilities but I know that they cannot be relied on.

 

The hearing on the 10th is a possession hearing not the eviction date.

 

Regarding question 10 I have a copy but would like to send it privately and do not know how to do this, any help to do this will be appreciated.

 

I need to get the N244 form to the court by the latest tomorrow (Tuesday) to give me and the court time to get everything sorted.

 

To be honest I am not sure what it is this form will do if it is accepted and agreed to. Is it to adjourn the hearing or to postpone the judgement?

 

kindest regards

 

George

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, if this is a possession hearing you do not enter an N244. When you received the paperwork from the court regarding this possession hearing you should have received an N11M Defence form - do you have it? That is the form you need to return to the court.

[Crapstone]

As has already been said, you must make an offer that you're sure you can keep to. It's better to set it at £50, on top of normal payments and overpay when you can, instead of trying to please them with higher amounts that you may not be able to manage regularly.

 

Don't worry, it's not as bad as it seems and you will get through it.

[jasperpad]

Hi there, if this is a possession hearing you do not enter an N244. When you received the paperwork from the court regarding this possession hearing you should have received an N11M Defence form - do you have it? That is the form you need to return to the court.

the form is with the CAB right now and will get it today. I have my defence ready but would like someone to check it out for me, can it be posted here or can I pm it? if PMing how do i do this on CAG?

george

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, you can send it to Ell-enn@consumeractiongroup.co.uk and I will take a look at it. Let me know when you've sent it so I can look out for it.

[peterjm]

George

1)pm click the username on left in blue ie your name jasperpad ,a white box with options appears one option is private message click this then a box drops down so you can write and send your pm.

2)at the top of the page next to your username you will see a box called notifications this will show if you have any private messages.

3)Will pm you now.

[Ell-enn]

Hi, I received your statement and have made some alterations/suggestions. It is on it's way back to you now.

 

Ell

[peterjm]

george this is the regulatory rule your lender must comply with as you can see most if not all in your case has been ignored,make the court aware of this.

 

MCOB 13: Arrears and repossessions is of particular importance in the context of mortgage litigation:

 

13.1 Application

 

Who does it apply to?

 

Mortgage lenders and mortgage administrators (and firms that were mortgage lenders or mortgage administrators before the sale of a repossessed property took place).

 

13.2 Purpose

 

What does it do?

 

It applies the provisions of MCOB 13 with respect to administering a regulated mortgage contract, and administering a mortgage shortfall debt

 

It amplifies MCOB 6 (duty to treat customers fairly) in respect of the information and service provided to customers who have payment difficulties or face a mortgage shortfall debt

 

13.3 Dealing fairly with customers in arrears: policy and procedures

 

(1) A firm must deal fairly with any customer who:

 

is in arrears on a regulated mortgage contract; or

 

has a mortgage shortfall debt

 

(2) A firm must put in place, and operate in accordance with, a written policy (agreed by its respective governing body) and procedures for complying with (1).

 

13.3.2 Policy and procedures: content

 

A firm should ensure that its written policy and procedures include:

 

(a) using reasonable efforts to reach an agreement with a customer over the method of repaying any payment shortfall or mortgage shortfall debt, in the case of the former having regard to the desirability of agreeing with the customer an alternative to taking possession of the property;

 

(b) liaising, if the customer makes arrangements for this, with a third party source of advice regarding the payment shortfall or mortgage shortfall debt;

 

© adopting a reasonable approach to the time over which the payment shortfall or mortgage shortfall debt should be repaid, having particular regard to the need to establish, where feasible, a payment plan which is practical in terms of the circumstances of the customer;

 

(d) granting, unless it has good reason not to do so, a customer's request for a change to:

 

(i) the date on which the payment is due (providing it is within the same payment period); or

 

(ii) the method by which payment is made;

 

and giving the customer a written explanation of its reasons if it refuses the request;

 

(e) giving consideration, where no reasonable payment arrangement can be made, to the customer being allowed to remain in possession to effect a sale; and

 

(f) repossessing the property only where all other reasonable attempts to resolve the position have failed.

 

13.3.9 Record keeping: arrears and repossessions

 

(1) A firm must make and retain an adequate record of its dealings with a customer whose account is in arrears or who has a mortgage shortfall debt, which will enable the firm to show its compliance with MCOB 13.4 (Arrears: provision of information to the customer), MCOB 13.5 (Dealing with a customer in arrears or with a mortgage shortfall debt) and MCOB 13.6 (Repossessions).

 

(2) A firm must retain the record required by (1) for a year from the date on which the relevant payment shortfall or mortgage shortfall debt was cleared.

 

13.4 Arrears: provision of information to the customer

 

If a customer falls into arrears on a regulated mortgage contract, a firm must as soon as possible, and in any event within 15 business days of becoming aware of that fact, provide the customer with the following in a durable medium:

 

(1) the current FSA information sheet on mortgage arrears;

 

(2) a list of the due payments either missed or only paid in part;

 

(3) the total sum of the payment shortfall;

 

(4) the charges incurred as a result of the payment shortfall;

 

(5) the total outstanding debt, excluding charges that may be added on redemption; and

 

(6) an indication of the nature (and where possible the level) of charges the customer is likely to incur unless the payment shortfall is cleared.

 

13.4.4 Customers in arrears within the past 12 months

 

If a customer's account has previously fallen into arrears within the past 12 months (and at that time the customer received the disclosure required by MCOB 13.4.1 R), the arrears have been cleared and the customer's account falls into arrears on a subsequent occasion a firm must either:

 

(1) issue a further disclosure in compliance with MCOB 13.4.1 R; or

 

(2) provide a statement, in a durable medium, of the payments due, the actual payment shortfall, any charges incurred and the total outstanding debt excluding any charges that may be added on redemption, together with information as to the consequences, including repossession, if the payment shortfall is not cleared.

 

13.4.5 Steps required before action for repossession

 

Before commencing action for repossession, a firm must:

 

(1) provide a written update of the information required by MCOB 13.4.1 R(2), (3), (4), (5) and (6);

 

(2) ensure that the customer is informed of the need to contact the local authority to establish whether the customer is eligible for local authority housing after his property is repossessed; and

 

(3) clearly state the action that will be taken with regard to repossession.

 

 

13.5 Dealing with a customer in arrears or with a mortgage shortfall debt

 

13.5.1 Statement of charges

 

Where an account is in arrears, and the payment shortfall or mortgage shortfall debt is attracting charges, a firm must provide the customer with a regular written statement (at least once a quarter) of the payments due, the actual payment shortfall, the charges incurred and the debt.

 

13.5.3 Pressure on customers

 

A firm must not put pressure on a customer through excessive telephone calls or correspondence, or by contact at an unreasonable hour.

 

13.6 Repossession

 

A firm must ensure that, whenever a property is repossessed (whether voluntarily or through legal action) and it administers the regulated mortgage contract in respect of that property, steps are taken to:

 

(1) market the property for sale as soon as possible; and

 

(2) obtain the best price that might reasonably be paid, taking account of factors such as market conditions as well as the continuing increase in the amount owed by the customer under the regulated mortgage contract.

 

13.6.3 If the proceeds of sale are less than the debt

 

(1) A firm must ensure that, as soon as possible after the sale of a repossessed property, if the proceeds of sale are less than the amount of the customer's debt, the customer is informed in a durable medium of:

 

(a) the mortgage shortfall debt; and

 

(b) where relevant, the fact that the mortgage shortfall debt may be pursued by another company (for example, a mortgage indemnity insurer).

 

(2) If the decision is made to recover the mortgage shortfall debt, the firm must ensure that the customer is notified of this intention.

 

The notification referred to in (1) must take place within five years of the date of the sale (if the regulated mortgage contract is subject to Scottish law) or within six years (in all other cases).

 

13.6.6 If the proceeds of sale are more than the debt

 

A firm must ensure that, on the sale of a repossessed property, if the proceeds of sale are more than the amount of the customer's debt, reasonable steps are taken, as soon as possible after the sale, to inform the customer in a durable medium of the surplus and, subject to the rights of any subsequent mortgage or charge holders, to pay it to him.

 

13.7 Business loans

 

Where the regulated mortgage contract is for a business purpose, a firm may as an alternative to MCOB 13.4.1 R(1) provide the following information in a durable medium instead of the FSA information sheet on mortgage arrears:

 

(1) details of the consequences if the payment shortfall is not cleared;

 

(2) a description of the options available to the customer for clearing the payment shortfall; and

 

(3) details of sources of fee-free advice for business customers.

 

ALSO SEE THIS LINK TO THE PREACTION PROTOCOLS SOMETHING THEY ALSO IGNORE WHEN BRINGING A CLAIM SUCH AS YOURS TO COURT.

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/protocols/prot_mha.htm#IDAQBNOB

Edited November 3, 2010 by peterjm

[mhbw3043]

We have a secured loan with SPPL, in 2008 we missed two payments but made overpayments during the year, at the start of 2009 the arrears were £351, our monthly payment was £330 so we were just over one month in arrears, early in 2009 we missed another payment but we kept up the payments for the next few months and paid over the required amount, in july of 2009 they started a claim for possession in the County Court this was the paticulars of their claim:

 

Payment History

Date * Due * Payment * Arrears

22/9/08 *£830.55* 0.00 * £830.55

1/5/09 *£286.74 *0.00 * £1140.30

1/6/09 *£286.74 *£300.00 * £1246.97

1/7/09 * £278.37 * 0.00 * £1645.63

2/7/09 *£1645.63 *0.00 *£1645.63

 

Made a payment of £300 on the 3rd of July, and another £300 on the 1st of August, letter from them in July has arrears of £1345.63, another letter in August has arrears of £1745.18 so August payment had been added to arrears even though payment had been made on the first by debit card.

Now for the true picture on the 22/9/08 payment arrears stood at £144, on the 1st of August payment arrears were £551, so all the rest of the alleged arrears were in fact charges the true arrears never went above six hundred, the case was dropped at the eleventh hour but I remember the last letter before the hearing the arrears stood at £1800 and thats the figure they would have used to try to get possession.

We missed the three payments because I was self employed and business at the time was bad, but did our three missed payments and some late ones really cost Capstone £1200 I don't think so, all payments since April 2009 have been made on time and for more than the required amount, a lot of the charges were refunded, six litigation charges of £115 were given back also the legal charges, but six arrears charges of £60 were added to the account they can charge those because of refund of litigation, we still appear to have arrears of £770 but according to my calculations the true payment arrears are nearer £130.

They dropped the case like a hot brick maybe because they thought they might lose?, I am now trying through the FOS to get all charges refunded.

The Solicitor who signed the original: Claim for Possession believed that the facts stated are true, I don't think this lot would recognise the truth if it fell on them from a great height, they have treated us like dirt where do we go from here?.

And talking about the truth look at the payment history above how can both sides add up to the same arrears figure I have thrown my calculator in the river it could not work it out so it must be faulty.

[mhbw3043]

With regard to my first post, on the payment history statement on the claim for possession form, it stated that on the 22/9/08 the arrears were £830.55. I have an arrears statement in front of me, on the 22/9/08 I made a debit card payment of £470 so the arrears figure at the end of the day was £360.55, on the 25/9/08 I received a letter saying that a £50 arrears management fee applied to the account on the 29/8/08 was applied in error and was refunded, so the true arrears on the 22/9/08 was £310.55 so in july 09 the document for the court shows £830.55 arrears on the 22/9/08, so the payment of £470 and the £50 refund were missed, so the question is was it an error or were they trying to hide the £470 and the £50 refund?, made our position look much worse in front of the Judge had it got to court, but they would never do that would they?. And they also told us last year that it was all a mistake we should not have been put in the litigation department anyway, they do seem to make a lot of errors?.

[Crapstone]

Full of errors. Without their unfair charges for insurance and charges on top of that we would not have been in arrears. When they took us to court the amount taken for insurance put us ahead in payments. We already had our own insurance but they refused to acknowledge it. It's a con and we know it.

[Crapstone]

They can't add up. I've worked everything out and they disagree, argue about it but then a few months later they refund money due to a 'mistake' Interest on arrears is the latest one ......3rd time lucky they hope. Everytime they hit you make a deal of it.