Mutating Corona Virus

[cjcregg]

18 hours ago, London1971 said:

 

Employers everywhere have now discovered that they can save 10's of thousands per month, and not lose any productivity, by dumping the office. 

 

 

That may be true of some employers but not for a significant amount that are dependant on footfall in towns & cities. 

 

I live near a commuter town 40 minutes from London and even now the railway station car park which has 450 spaces and is normally full by 7am, has just 20 cars parked on any given weekday. I took a train a couple of weeks ago in 'rush hour' on a Monday morning and was literally the only passenger in the carriage. 

 

London is a ghost town and it's shocking to witness. 

 

 

[cjcregg]

You lot can moan all you like but with the exception of Russia the UK has conducted significantly more tests than any other European nation and in fact more than Russia by reference to population.

[cjcregg]

1 hour ago, honeybee13 said:

Really, cj? I don't think I've read that anywhere. Do you have a link please?

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109066/coronavirus-testing-in-europe-by-country/

[cjcregg]

8 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

The BMJ think it probably isn't as simple as that.

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3497

 

I'm sure it isn't that simple, which presumably is why the BMJ hasn't been able to produce their own figure or even have a stab at guessing one. So not exaclty conclusive.

[cjcregg]

2 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

Are you serious, TJ? Over 1/60th of the population?

 

I just had to check what he was talking about (he's on my ignore list so I don't usually read his posts) and 10 million isn't 1/60th of the population, more like 1/6th. Also only a fool would think he was being serious.

 

 

 

 

[cjcregg]

9 hours ago, London1971 said:

The thing that gets me is what good does closing a pub at 10pm do? Does the Virus only work nights?

 

I think it's because pubs are a major source of transmission so presumably shorter opening times = less infections.

[cjcregg]

5 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

 

What did you think of what Boris said last night, guys? My main takeaway from it that it's all the public's fault.

To be fair it's the public who are transmitting the virus, not the Government.

 

Short of mass vaccination the solution must soley depend on the behavior of the public. 

 

[cjcregg]

The messages seem pretty clear to me. What don't you understand about them?

 

It's nonsense to say pronouncements change from day to day. They're responding in real time to the spike. If test & trace wasn't working, how did they identify the spikes in all the places where they've put in local measures? I'm not saying it's anywhere near perfect but to suggest it doesn't work and isn't identifying where outbreaks are simply isn't the case.

[cjcregg]

24 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

I think BN's post about car sharing is a case in point. If it's all thought through, why didn't they tell us yesterday?

 

I've just read that people in chauffeur driven cars won't have the same rules as taxis. This is why people think there's one rule for rich people with chauffeurs who go grouse shooting and another for the serfs.

Car sharing isn't a rule, it's just advisory and had been DfT advice for months.

 

Now, this may be a complete stab in the dark but maybe taxis have multiple passengers and chauffeur driven cars don't. But it's just a guess mind.

[cjcregg]

1 minute ago, honeybee13 said:

So why don't they explain the reasons instead of letting people assume the worst?

 

I don't know what you mean?

[cjcregg]

3 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

So why don't they explain the reasons instead of letting people assume the worst?

 

Ahh gotcha.

 

Because it's painfully obvious?

[cjcregg]

Nor do I but it isn't something I would allow myself to get hung up about. If you don't mind me saying you do have quite a pronounced populist political view. It's not my thing at all, I don't give a damn about class.

 

 

[cjcregg]

58 minutes ago, hightail said:

I thought I didn't until this year but it's painfully obvious that we definitely are NOT 'all in this together' and the rules are not simple at all.  Take for example the rule about table service, does this apply in places like MacDonalds where waiter service doesn't exist and it's OK to go up to the counter to order a takeaway?  According to a govt minister on the radio this morning it does - maybe/sort of/couldn't actually answer.  For those who can choose the Savoy Grill over such places it isn't an issue, for the vast majority it is and it's an example of how they don't think when making the law/rules/guidance.  It's all just the fault of the public for catching the disease if they dare to venture out - as they were told to do.

 

When trying to apply blanket rules to multiple scenarios there will alway be anomonlies, it's inevitable. But if it gets clarified quickly as it has then it's hardly a major issue in my view.

 

 

 

 

[cjcregg]

Oh and FYI the Savoy's a pi$$hole. I'd rather go to Burger King.

[cjcregg]

18 hours ago, hightail said:

IF it gets clarified quickly.  How long did it take for all those charges to be dropped which had been brought under the new legislation, not one of which was legit.  The one case which could have stuck because it was someone deliberately travelling whilst infected was Cummings but excuses were made for him whilst others were wrongly charged.

 

Why is the public being blamed for the increase in infection rate when Boris was adamant that people should get back to work?  The demographic of those infected this time round includes a significant number of relatively young women, the very people in the kind of jobs which expose them to a high viral load - underpaid and undervalued jobs in the main. How blameworthy are they?  MPs did a pretty good job of spreading it around at start but nobody suggested it was their own fault.

 

I'm not sure what what dropped charges you mean but whether measures are just recommendations, rules or enforceable laws, surely people should be complying regardless shouldn't they? 

 

Where did the government 'blame' the public? Matt Hancock said ''the rise in cases in Bolton is partly due to socialising by people in their 20s and 30s, we know this from contact tracing''. That's not attributing blame, it's identifying a cause. But here on the bitch-fest that is this thread, facts don't seem to matter much.

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by cjcregg

[cjcregg]

2 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

This is from the Guardian live feed at 13.40.

 

England’s troubled and much-delayed NHS Covid app does not accept test results processed in the country’s government-run laboratories, hospitals or as part of an official survey, officials have admitted.

The app’s official account said on Twitter it could not link to test results taken in Public Health England (PHE) laboratories, at the National Health Service (NHS) or as part of a survey run by the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

 

 

[cjcregg]

1 hour ago, honeybee13 said:

 

 

They were going to quietly leave bars in Parliament open after 10pm 

 

 

I can't read the piece, who are ''they''?

 

Also the bars have been closed since March apparently so how could they ''leave'' them open after 10pm?

[cjcregg]

25 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Sorry about the link. by 'they' I meant MPs or the Parliamentary authorities. I believe several of the bars or restaurants reopened over the last few months.

 

It was MPs who successfully argued they shouldn't open, how can that be ''them''?

 

So it's bars OR restaurants now then is it? Funny, you'd only mentioned bars before. 

 

Not sure when this was but all bars were closed in March  https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/foi/foi-and-eir/commons-foi-disclosures/catering-services-retail/closure-of-facilities-2020/

[cjcregg]

13 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Not sure when this was but all bars were closed in

 

Yes but then some of them reopened, as per the Guardian article I linked to. The rest of the information is in the link that TJ posted.

 

I don't see his posts thanks to CAG's excellent ignore function.

 

So given MPs never wanted them open after 10pm, what's your 'plebs' beef? I don't get it.

[cjcregg]

A climb down from what? It was wasn't the Government or MPs that exempted Parliamentary bars from the 10pm rule.

 

Let me ask again, who is your beef with exactly?

[cjcregg]

9 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I'm honestly confused as to why testing is targeted at those who show outward signs of the disease

 

I have been since the outset. I can only think it's been to economise on the number of tests done.

 

 

Speculative testing doesn't serve any purpose as apart from anything the data that tests provide has a shelf life of a nano second. 

 

 

 

 

[cjcregg]

9 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I was meaning targeted testing, cj.

 

 

Targeting who?

[cjcregg]

7 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20200611.868893/full/

 

Are you posting this link as an answer to my question? 

[cjcregg]

9 hours ago, hightail said:

 

 

Someone with symptoms already has all the information they need to take appropriate action. 

 

 

 

I'm not sure that's right but are you saying people with symptoms shouldn't be tested in preference to people that are? Testing people with symptoms is critical to determining the extent & spread of the virus and as such the appropriate measures to take either nationally or locally.

[cjcregg]

3 hours ago, hightail said:

That's exactly what we've used the testing process for.  Nothing more than documenting the spread among those who choose to be tested.  What an utter and complete waste.  Testing only those with symptoms who a. choose to get tested and b. can actually then book a test guarantees we can't get ahead of the game to curb the spread, only chase it.  There's no merit in knowing the numbers if you don't use the information to do something useful in a timely manner.

 

Meanwhile thousands of council and other publicly funded employees have been furloughed (on full pay for all those I know) and instead of sitting at home they could have been doorstepping, and preferably testing, as part of the test and trace system.

 

Somehow I'm not sure that compulsory testing carried out by idle refuse collectors would prove too popular or successful if I'm honest.