Annual paid leave entitlement

[bloomingflower]

I think I am right in saying that your ex employer would need an operators license for a taxi business. This is granted to a "fit and proper person" by the local council where that business operates.

 

Make of that what you will, armed with the information to hand.

 

There is also a Trade Association you could get in touch with called the National Taxi Association (not sure if can put that on here) oppologies to the mods if it is against the house rules.

 

Best of luck in your struggle

 

 

Thank you for your reply Beau.

 

I haven't heard of this association before.

 

Unfortunately, I would not be able to seek advice from the National Taxi Association as they have a strict policy to only give advice or any legal advice to fully paid up members.

 

The membership fee to join is £36 per year. However, after reading on their site, I am not even quite sure if they can help me in terms of being a previous employee or worker for a taxi company..

 

It also says on their website that if you are not a member do not call them if seeking legal advice.

 

Sadly, they have said that a lot of non members had been calling them for advice on the 'promise of membership' but neither a membership or a polite thank you is given in return for their advice.

 

I can totally understand where they are coming from.

 

I have received an email this morning from the taxi company's borough council. The only help they can give me is to take notes of my complaint and add it to the operators file.

 

So it is now back to the drawing board and to wait patiently for the tribunal to come round.

 

bf x

[bloomingflower]

Thank you for your reply Beau.

 

I haven't heard of this association before.

 

Unfortunately, I would not be able to seek advice from the National Taxi Association as they have a strict policy to only give advice or any legal advice to fully paid up members.

 

The membership fee to join is £36 per year. However, after reading on their site, I am not even quite sure if they can help me in terms of being a previous employee or worker for a taxi company..

 

It also says on their website that if you are not a member do not call them if seeking legal advice.

 

Sadly, they have said that a lot of non members had been calling them for advice on the 'promise of membership' but neither a membership or a polite thank you is given in return for their advice.

 

I can totally understand where they are coming from.

 

I have received an email this morning from the taxi company's borough council. The only help they can give me is to take notes of my complaint and add it to the operators file.

So it is now back to the drawing board and to wait patiently for the tribunal to come round.

 

 

I forgot to ask and this might be a silly question. Does anyone know what happens when the council files a complaint and then 'adds it to the taxi operators file?' (in bold above)

 

Do they just sit on it and do absolutely nothing or do they carry out some sort of investigation?

 

I just don't know what else I can do to demonstrate to the council to get them to act on these complaints. And what do they deem serious enough for the council to even do anything?

 

I would say that these (in my eyes anyway) were serious in that, the taxi company (to name but a few) did not provide statutory entitlements, being dismissed asking for those entitlements, did not pay wages for the hours that have been worked, did not provide adequate rests and breaks and generally exploited their workers.

 

 

bf x

[Emmzzi]

I forgot to ask and this might be a silly question. Does anyone know what happens when the council files a complaint and then 'adds it to the taxi operators file?' (in bold above)

 

Do they just sit on it and do absolutely nothing or do they carry out some sort of investigation?

 

I just don't know what else I can do to demonstrate to the council to get them to act on these complaints. And what do they deem serious enough for the council to even do anything?

 

I would say that these (in my eyes anyway) were serious in that, the taxi company (to name but a few) did not provide statutory entitlements, being dismissed asking for those entitlements, did not pay wages for the hours that have been worked, did not provide adequate rests and breaks and generally exploited their workers.

 

 

bf x

 

There is already a proper legal process in place, which you are following. Be patient. The council will in no way act on what is currently hearsay - it's not fact until you've been to court.

[bloomingflower]

There is already a proper legal process in place, which you are following. Be patient. The council will in no way act on what is currently hearsay - it's not fact until you've been to court.

 

Emmzzi, I am very sorry but I have to disagree with your above comment.

 

I am not quite sure how you can say that it is 'currently hearsay' and it is 'not fact' until my case has been to court.

 

Are we on the same page because you obviously have not read this whole thread properly.

 

1.It is fact that my previous employer did not pay me statutory holiday or provide me with statutory annual leave as quite clearly shown on all my wage slips and my bank account.

 

2. It is fact that he also did not pay me one weeks wages as shown on my bank account.

 

3. It is fact that the taxi company did not provide me adequate rests and breaks as demonstrated on the text exchanges on my Whatsapp.

 

I obviously need to provide this proof in order to show it is fact before going to court and to even file a case to the employment tribunal in the first place. I was advised by ACAS to do this.

 

I am aware that there is a 'proper legal process in place' as I am the person who initiated that process in the first place.

 

As I have already explained I have emailed their council with all the details and evidence of my case and all I want them to do is investigate using my evidence that I have already shown them.

 

My recent questions were about whether there was an authority who regulates these taxi companies.

 

Given the borough council issues their licence to operate they must have some power to investigate now rather than later based on what I have given them.

 

I have a long time to wait for the ET and it is not just about me.

 

There are other work colleagues who are in the same boat as they have been repeatedly lied to like I was. I am helping them too.

 

(Some of them have been working for the company for 5 to 6 years not knowing they are being lied to. I was only with the company for 14 months before I started asking questions and this is where I am now).

 

However, I am the one who has made those complaints against the company and was dismissed because of that.

 

All the while they are on the right side of the company and being loyal and not ruffling any feathers then they are safe for now until it will be their turn at some point to make those same complaints.

 

In fact, I did have two new work colleagues who said they would support me but I know their loyalties are divided. If they are happy with being lied to at the moment and need to keep their new jobs that's understandable. Until the time comes when they start to ask for their holiday entitlements.

 

So that is why I wanted to see if the council could do something now so they would not have to suffer all the stress that I am going through.

 

 

 

bf x

Edited August 18, 2017 by bloomingflower
edit info

[Emmzzi]

If a regulatory body like a taxi licensing agency act on information not yet proven in court they open themselves up to repercussions. If they act on the outcome of a court case they are on much firmer footing. They are NOT going to put themselves in the place of an employment judge and decide the merits of the case; it is not their job.

 

So as far a they are concerned, it is currently your word against the taxi company = hearsay. When you win your case they can treat it as fact.

[bloomingflower]

Just received an email notification from the tribunal service -date set for December 2017.

 

 

 

 

 

bf x

[Emmzzi]

Just received an email notification from the tribunal service -date set for December 2017.

 

 

 

 

 

bf x

 

If your focus is justice for YOU, you might want to take a settlement, if they offer it

If your focus is justice for ALL, you might want to go to ET, even if they offer a settlement

[sangie5952]

Hi Bloomingflower

 

Ease up there! Listen to Emmzzi because she is talking total sense - and you just started NOT talking sense! If you want to campaign for world peace and justice for all - join a union or a political party. But don't get that confused with what you are doing right now. What you are doing right now is making a claim for unfair dismissal and holiday pay at an employment tribunal. For yourself. And that's it. Nothing more. None of this is about the other employees. It is about you. Don't start out to make it more than it is our you will lose sight of what you are doing - and make mistakes of judgement.

 

For starters, it is correct. Whatever you say is unproven. The Council is not a court of law. They don't investigate and say whether someone is acting legally in paying their staff, and they definitely don't get involved in unfair dismissal. To obtain a taxi operators license the Council had regulations that are set down in law - they must follow those and nothing more. The law says that if you are treated unfairly (in law) then you must seek redress at an employment tribunal. But if the law cared whether someone is a fit and proper employer and should be allowed to run a business, then Argos and Sports Direct would be history! The Council are simply not allowed to revoke or refuse a licence on the grounds that you are saying. And you are not listening to rationale arguments because you have become blinded by revenge!

 

Listen, we all get that. I've been there myself, many years ago, before I did this job and got dismissed unfairly. And I wanted to refuse the settlement offer (even though it was the maximum I could win in a tribunal!) and destroy the employer in my righteous rage. Thank God I had my colleagues in the union to talk sense into me. Mostly with a mallet to start off with because sense want what I wanted to hear!

 

You live in a capitalist society. Like it or lump it. It exists to enable employers to make a profit at the expense of employees and clients or customers. The law doesn't interfere with that. But in a "civilised" society (my definition of that being "one that is trying to avoid class action") the powers that be con workers into believing that there is justice for everyone on an equal basis, by curbing the excesses of employers with things like wage controls and holiday pay. That's it. It's all a veil to stop EVERYONE from feeling like you do right now, because if all workers felt that bad all the time, they'd be dangerous! But like I said, if the veil has slipped from your eyes, then do something about it. Join something. But don't confuse it with what you are doing right now. Because I can tell you that if you go to a tribunal, and if you win (and Emmzzi is correct, you haven't yet!) You will still be just as angry. You won't get justice. You won't get revenge. You won't feel better. You will just have a bit of cash.

 

So focus. You need to win your case. Start preparing for your day in court. And then let the rest go. Being angry at the world will just eat you up, and Emmzzi didn't do anything to deserve that anger. She's right. People are innocent until proven guilty - even **** bags! And I can guarantee you that even if he is found guilty of this, that won't be what brings him down. More likely that he'll go the way that most small businesses go - insolvency. And that is also capitalism and nothing else. The fact is that it is survival of the fittest. Nothing more. And from what toy have said previously he won't survive, with or without your case.

[bloomingflower]

If your focus is justice for YOU, you might want to take a settlement, if they offer it

If your focus is justice for ALL, you might want to go to ET, even if they offer a settlement

 

 

Emmzi,

 

I have just this minute logged on and seen your above reply.

 

I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't really directing my frustration at you. It is the employer and the circumstances that I am in that I am angry with. I do appreciate all the valuable advice you are giving me and I do respect that you have more knowledge than me in regards to employment law.

 

I was only just trying to demonstrate that I have all the relevant documentation to show the facts of my case. I think I was just upset when you said it was all hearsay. However, I understand that I have to wait until the tribunal and I am glad that I have now got a date for that.

 

I was really hoping that the employer would try and least make an offer of settlement but it just goes to show how much he thinks he isn't doing anything wrong. And I really don't think he will settle before the tribunal either. I won't hold my breath!

 

Once again, I didn't mean for my previous post to be perceived as a rant against you. It really wasn't and I apologise if you thought that it was.

 

 

bf x

[bloomingflower]

Hi Bloomingflower

 

Ease up there! Listen to Emmzzi because she is talking total sense - and you just started NOT talking sense! If you want to campaign for world peace and justice for all - join a union or a political party. But don't get that confused with what you are doing right now. What you are doing right now is making a claim for unfair dismissal and holiday pay at an employment tribunal. For yourself. And that's it. Nothing more. None of this is about the other employees. It is about you. Don't start out to make it more than it is our you will lose sight of what you are doing - and make mistakes of judgement.

 

For starters, it is correct. Whatever you say is unproven. The Council is not a court of law. They don't investigate and say whether someone is acting legally in paying their staff, and they definitely don't get involved in unfair dismissal. To obtain a taxi operators license the Council had regulations that are set down in law - they must follow those and nothing more. The law says that if you are treated unfairly (in law) then you must seek redress at an employment tribunal. But if the law cared whether someone is a fit and proper employer and should be allowed to run a business, then Argos and Sports Direct would be history! The Council are simply not allowed to revoke or refuse a licence on the grounds that you are saying. And you are not listening to rationale arguments because you have become blinded by revenge!

 

Listen, we all get that. I've been there myself, many years ago, before I did this job and got dismissed unfairly. And I wanted to refuse the settlement offer (even though it was the maximum I could win in a tribunal!) and destroy the employer in my righteous rage. Thank God I had my colleagues in the union to talk sense into me. Mostly with a mallet to start off with because sense want what I wanted to hear!

 

You live in a capitalist society. Like it or lump it. It exists to enable employers to make a profit at the expense of employees and clients or customers. The law doesn't interfere with that. But in a "civilised" society (my definition of that being "one that is trying to avoid class action") the powers that be con workers into believing that there is justice for everyone on an equal basis, by curbing the excesses of employers with things like wage controls and holiday pay. That's it. It's all a veil to stop EVERYONE from feeling like you do right now, because if all workers felt that bad all the time, they'd be dangerous! But like I said, if the veil has slipped from your eyes, then do something about it. Join something. But don't confuse it with what you are doing right now. Because I can tell you that if you go to a tribunal, and if you win (and Emmzzi is correct, you haven't yet!) You will still be just as angry. You won't get justice. You won't get revenge. You won't feel better. You will just have a bit of cash.

 

So focus. You need to win your case. Start preparing for your day in court. And then let the rest go. Being angry at the world will just eat you up, and Emmzzi didn't do anything to deserve that anger. She's right. People are innocent until proven guilty - even **** bags! And I can guarantee you that even if he is found guilty of this, that won't be what brings him down. More likely that he'll go the way that most small businesses go - insolvency. And that is also capitalism and nothing else. The fact is that it is survival of the fittest. Nothing more. And from what toy have said previously he won't survive, with or without your case.

 

 

Sangie,

 

Thank you for taking the time to type what you have posted above.

 

I totally understand where you are coming from with everything you have said.

 

I just decided to jump in with two feet in my defence when I previously posted. I have just replied to Emmzi explaining why. I did not mean for my post to be directed solely against her and I apologised if she thought that. I value her advice and all the other advice I have been given from other posters..

 

I don't think I am angry with the world. I am only angry with my ex employer because he feels he can get away with what he has done. I just wanted to show that I have the proof that is needed to prove my case.

 

I will certainly take Emmzi's advice if he wants to settle before the tribunal but I really don't think he will.

 

Anyway, I will come back and post if I hear anything more before the tribunal.

 

 

 

BF x

Edited August 19, 2017 by bloomingflower
edit info

[sangie5952]

Oh it's early days yet. It is far from uncommon for settlements to be offered on the day of the tribunal!

[ericsbrother]

I would phrase it as an allegation. they can investigate if they wish but for mosy fo your issues their hands are tied as they have no statutory powers to investigate whther they taxi co is paying HMRC the right money, that is for HMRC to determine. Most of the companies that get into the news get away with their behaviour becuase ech thing they do has to be invertigated by a different body and each has limited powers so waht is a large injustice to you is but a series of small improprieties to each interested body.

As advised, focus on getting your monies that are due, let everyone else do their own bit and if the net result is greater than just your action then that is good for you as well. Ultimately a court or tribunal can only put you back in the position you should have been in, ie order the payemt of the correct money, the bad publicity is not designed so much as to punish the employer but to educate others so they follow the correct path.

If a regulatory body like a taxi licensing agency act on information not yet proven in court they open themselves up to repercussions. If they act on the outcome of a court case they are on much firmer footing. They are NOT going to put themselves in the place of an employment judge and decide the merits of the case; it is not their job.

 

So as far a they are concerned, it is currently your word against the taxi company = hearsay. When you win your case they can treat it as fact.

[Emmzzi]

Just received an email notification from the tribunal service -date set for December 2017.

bf x

 

A frustratingly long time away, but a start.

 

Top advice now is to get busy doing something else; lots of something else! Spend a weekend getting your documents together, put them in order ready for when it's bundle exhange time. Visit a couple of ETs at the court so you know what happens. Then forget all about it for at least a couple of months.

[bloomingflower]

A frustratingly long time away, but a start.

 

Top advice now is to get busy doing something else; lots of something else! Spend a weekend getting your documents together, put them in order ready for when it's bundle exhange time. Visit a couple of ETs at the court so you know what happens. Then forget all about it for at least a couple of months.

 

 

Emmzi,

 

Funnily enough, this is what I have been doing the whole weekend. For the moment I have been organising my bundle into document folders and saving them to docs.

 

The problem will be is when it is time to print them all. I have hundreds and hundreds of pages which will cost me a small fortune in ink and paper.

 

I have time sheets, wage slips, email exchanges etc and everything else that goes with the claim. There is a lot of paperwork.

 

Do I honestly have to print every single sheet to take to the tribunal?

 

Given my employer didn't pay me for the month of July and am not working at the moment I can't afford this extra cost.

 

Has anyone got any ideas of how to keep the cost down?

 

I think I will need to print everything as this is all relevant to my claim.

 

Any ideas would be great.

 

 

 

BF x

[Emmzzi]

You will need 6 copies

 

It is highly unlikely the ET will read hundreds and hundreds of pages. I think you need to start paring down to the most pertinent ones.

[sangie5952]

Try to not worry about things before they happen. And you may not have to prepare the bundle - it is quite common that the solicitor for the employer does that.

 

However, before you start paring down, I'd differ with Emmzzi's advice here. You never leave out evidence. Your next task is to start preparing your witness statement. As things stand you have two cases, yes? One for unpaid holiday and one for unfair dismissal. The tribunal will undoubtedly combine the claims. The witness statement is the most important document, and it goes first in your bundle. You will be cross-examined on this statement when you are in the tribunal.

 

The witness statement is your story. You start at the beginning and you go to the end. And as you go, you reference and number your evidence to prove what you are saying. For example "On 24th XXXX Mr Smith sent me an email threatening to dismiss me if I continued to claim holiday pay, and this is attached in the bundle at #23".

 

You won't do this process once, because this is it - the most important thing you will do, and you want it to be perfect. So sit down and write the story without looking at your evidence. Then go back and match the evidence you have to the statement you have written. Then go away for a few days, or even a week. Come back, looking at it fresh. What have you missed out, what doesn't make sense, does the fact that a piece of your evidence isn't included mean that you have missed something out, or does it mean it isn't important? Improve your statement.

 

Do all that again.

 

Then get someone sensible to read it all and pick holes in it. Improve it again.

 

Find someone else to do it again.

 

At that stage you will probably have the best statement that you can prepare, all neatly stacked with your supporting evidence. You will find plenty of templates on the internet for this statement. Find one.

 

If it then looks like a book, it is what it is. You are claiming unfair dismissal. Whilst most people don't get awarded nearly as much as they think they will get, this is a higher value claim - certainly much higher value than the holidays. So if you deem it evidence, they will read it. Tribunals read evidence that stretches into multiple folders! They are adept at speed reading and drawing out what the need to know. But also, your statement tells them what they need to read. You don't get penalised on putting something in the bundle they don't need. You do lose cases for failing to put something in they did!

 

Other things you need to do now. Start keeping a record of your job seeking activities, interviews etc. You need to be able to prepare a schedule of loss, and the employer may challenge that to demonstrate that you haven't just sat around but that your losses in wages are down to not being able to get a job. Keep a record of the time you put in to this case, and any expenses you incur (with proof) - there is a mechanism for these to be compensated as part of the schedule of loss. And don't worry about copying the bundle right now - I am guessing that there will be a pre-hearing or directions meeting. Ask for the other side to prepare the bundle if the judge doesn't order it. Explain its big and costly for you to produce it. When the other side produces it - check it carefully, as they might "forget" something.

 

And in the end, if that doesn't work, do you have a local friendly community centre or charity - they will often copy things speedily and at a lower cost. Or let you do it yourself for a fraction of other services. But come to that problem at the end - you are nowhere near there yet.

[Emmzzi]

 

However, before you start paring down, I'd differ with Emmzzi's advice here. You never leave out evidence. Your next task is to start preparing your witness statement. As things stand you have two cases, yes? One for unpaid holiday and one for unfair dismissal. .

 

 

So with a year and a bit employment, unpaid holiday is surely down to max of 60 odd weekly payslips, none of which show holiday pay; photocopy 2 or 4 to a page. and some correspondence refusing holiday pay.

 

Between that and the dismissal documents I'm struggling to see how we're now wading through "hundreds and hundreds" of pages, even allowing for a couple of chunky witness statements. Some of it is going to be trivial in the scheme of things.

[sangie5952]

So with a year and a bit employment, unpaid holiday is surely down to max of 60 odd weekly payslips, none of which show holiday pay; photocopy 2 or 4 to a page. and some correspondence refusing holiday pay.

 

Between that and the dismissal documents I'm struggling to see how we're now wading through "hundreds and hundreds" of pages, even allowing for a couple of chunky witness statements. Some of it is going to be trivial in the scheme of things.

I don't know that because I haven't seen the papers. Neither do you. That is why I said that you start from the witness statement. Because that enables you to make a qualified judgement about whether something is not relevant. And it is no longer a claim for holiday pay. It is also a claim for unfair dismissal for exercising a statutory right.

[Emmzzi]

And it is no longer a claim for holiday pay. It is also a claim for unfair dismissal for exercising a statutory right.

 

which I mentioned already, thanks!

[sangie5952]

which I mentioned already, thanks!

 

Ok, ok. I'm not going to argue with you. The OP can decide for themselves which approach works better for them.

[bloomingflower]

You will need 6 copies

 

It is highly unlikely the ET will read hundreds and hundreds of pages. I think you need to start paring down to the most pertinent ones.

 

 

When I said 'hundreds and hundreds of pages' I didn't actually mean that literally.

 

Even though I have to produce a small bundle which is still quite significant in terms of costs by printing them all out on my home computer, this will still all add up in respect of using paper and ink etc. When you are not working this makes a huge difference.

 

Given it was the employer who put me in this situation, all I wanted to ask was there anyway I could keep the costs down.

 

To be honest, I think all the documents I need to produce are relevant because it will demonstrate to the tribunal a true picture of my case.

 

But after reading Sangie's post I will certainly be asking the employer to produce all the other sheets relating to their/my bundles.

 

For example I have wage slips, the particulars of claim/witness statement, schedule of losses, time sheets,email exchanges etc. Not forgetting to add their responses/bundle etc.

 

I have since been informed that I can add these extra costs to my schedule of losses which is all well and good but this doesn't help me now when I really need it.

 

 

 

bf x

Edited August 26, 2017 by bloomingflower
edit info

[bloomingflower]

You will need 6 copies

 

It is highly unlikely the ET will read hundreds and hundreds of pages. I think you need to start paring down to the most pertinent ones.

 

 

When I said 'hundreds and hundreds of pages' I didn't actually mean that literally.

 

Even though I have to produce a small bundle which is still quite significant in terms of costs by printing them all out on my home computer, this will still all add up in respect of using paper and ink etc. When you are not working this makes a huge difference.

 

Given it was the employer who put me in this situation, all I wanted to ask was there anyway I could keep the costs down.

 

To be honest, I think all the documents I need to produce are relevant because it will demonstrate to the tribunal a true picture of my case.

 

But after reading Sangie's post I will certainly be asking the employer to produce all the other sheets relating to their/my bundles.

 

For example I have wage slips, the particulars of claim, schedule of losses, time sheets,email exchanges etc. Not forgetting to add their responses/bundle etc.

 

I have since been informed that I can add these extra costs to my schedule of losses which is all well and good but this doesn't help me now when I really need it.

 

 

 

bf x

[Emmzzi]

you could try asking them to prepare half..

 

http://www.devereuxchambers.co.uk/assets/docs/publications/sharing_administrative_costs_in_the_employment_tribunal_-_georgina_hirsch.pdf

[bloomingflower]

you could try asking them to prepare half..

 

http://www.devereuxchambers.co.uk/assets/docs/publications/sharing_administrative_costs_in_the_employment_tribunal_-_georgina_hirsch.pdf

 

 

 

Emmzi,

 

Thank you for the above link but however, the link doesn't work? it is saying page can't be found.

 

Have you got the correct address?

 

 

 

bf x

[Emmzzi]

working for me but try a google of

 

"Sharing administrative costs in the employment tribunal GEORGiNA hirsch, Devereux Chambers"