UK PArking Enforcement Agency (Parkforce)

[StudentInDebt]

Please don't insult the nursing staff by equating a parking attendant to them

 

Don't try to imply that by pointing out that a nurse's paygrade will be the same as a parking attendant's I am in some way insulting them. The point I was making is that the removal of a hospital's own parking staff (some of them did have them) would provide some more nursing staff.

[PhantomReclaimer]

Hi, I am a radiographer who has to pay for parking at the hospital I work at ( it's less than visitors and patients and is taken from our salaries monthly).Recently the hospital turned the car park over to County Parking which is a private company who patrol the car park giving out penalties to staff and patients alike. Today, I mistakenly parked in a restricted area and got a parking ticket. I didn't see that it was resricted because the yellow poles that had been erected were not visible to me.As I entered the car parking area the free space I saw was on my left.The yellow pole must have been flat on the ground so I didn't see it through my passeger window as I looked across. the parked cars either side of the space were hiding their parking poles beneath the bodies of the cars.The restricted area has been newly constructed, we were always able to park there before and no-one had informed us otherwise.Also there are no notices to warn of the new parking arragements.I really don't want to pay this fine, I feel so angry. Please can any one tell me how i stand legally? Iam willing to fight to the bitter end if necessary.

 

Bella

 

Your ticket is given for breach of the terms of the parking contract you accpet when driving into the car park. Penalities are unlawful and unenforcible in English contract law - the innocent party has the right to claim damages off you though.

 

Even if the penalty were enforcible then if the bay wasn't marked properly, as you say, you still wouldn't have to pay as you cannot be in breach of something that has not been enforced properly according to the terms of the contract.

 

P.

[PhantomReclaimer]

In my opinion, in the case of hospitals the use of penalty charges to prevent abuse of the parking system should be allowed.

 

I agree. However, that is not the law and a landowner cannot just decide that the law applies differently to him - regardless of who he is.

 

There are two answers; lobby your MP for a change in the law relating to parking at hospitals or, lobby the local Council to adopt the roads within the hospital so they can issue statutory penalty charges under road traffic legislation.

 

P.

[Bailiffchaser]

So if we are paying for a parking service we are contract bound regardless ? Then um why do the all the car parks including secure ones put damage waver notices up everywhere ?

[PhantomReclaimer]

So if we are paying for a parking service we are contract bound regardless ? Then um why do the all the car parks including secure ones put damage waver notices up everywhere ?

 

Because they can, the notices just have to comply with the relevent statutorty or common law requirements for them to be incorporated into the contract. Bascially speaking, they have to be made known to you before, or at the time the contract between you and the site owner is concluded. Before you drive in usually, so you have the option of not accepting the contract.

 

The notices cannot disclaim any liability for death or personal injury though UFCTA 1977 Sec.1.

 

P.

[PhantomReclaimer]

Mr Parkforce has gone somewhat quiet.

 

P.

[Unistudent]

Mr Parkforce has gone somewhat quiet.

 

P.

 

I'd be interested to hear what they had to say on my situation as well.

 

Loads of cars were parked in places they shouldn't have been and/or parked on double yellows, yet I spied no tickets on them

[BELLA 47]

Your ticket is given for breach of the terms of the parking contract you accpet when driving into the car park. Penalities are unlawful and unenforcible in English contract law - the innocent party has the right to claim damages off you though.

 

Even if the penalty were enforcible then if the bay wasn't marked properly, as you say, you still wouldn't have to pay as you cannot be in breach of something that has not been enforced properly according to the terms of the contract.

 

P.

 

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou Phantom reclaimer!

Since my last post I have had a quick look again at the general area I parked in.There is a notice at the entrance to this parking area saying that it is a restricted parking area. However, the sign is not particularly noticeable ( I didn't notice it did I?), quite small, dark and very high for a motorist to spot.Still,I suppose they will argue that they complied with the terms of the contract by simply putting one there. As they have graciously said ' only appeals received at the address overleaf in writing within seven days of issue of this notice will be considered' I will appeal.However, if they do not uphold it, I will refuse to pay and quote the law at them. Will keep you all informed

Bella

[PhantomReclaimer]

There is a notice at the entrance to this parking area saying that it is a restricted parking area. However, the sign is not particularly noticeable ( I didn't notice it did I?), quite small, dark and very high for a motorist to spot.

 

The mere existance of a sign is not evidence of it's self that it's contents are incorporated into your parking contract.

 

If the sign is not reasonably visible then you have not had proper notice of it's provisions. Also, if what is said is held to be a core term of the contract then you should have been made aware of it before, or at the time, the contract was concluded.

 

P.

[BELLA 47]

Thanks for that Phantom recliner. After my last post I read through the 'Your parking ticket may not be lawful' thread started by Mondeo on this forum.It's a long read full of info and everyone is of the same opinion as you regarding private parking penalties in that they're a whole different ball game not supported by laws like the road traffic act. I then decided not to bother with the appeal and sent them this letter.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Regarding penalty notice Number CP00xxxxxxxx which was stuck to my windscreen wiper on 27th November at the XXXXXXXX Hospital, my legal representative has advised me that the penalty is unenforceable under English law so if you decide to take me to court I should welcome the opportunity to make this fact more widely known.

 

Yours

 

Recipient of penalty notice.

 

 

So we'll see what they do now. I telephoned the DVLA to ask if they give out information about registered driver's names and addresses to private parking enforcement companies and was told that they do if the company is registered with them, and she told me that County Parking are. If they get that information it will give my husband as the vehicle's registered owner.

The parking scheme has not been up and running very long at my hospital and I have heard that after the first few weeks they started fining people with a vengeance, staff and patients alike. ( remember the staff already pay for parking anyway).

 

Will keep you posted

Bella

[PhantomReclaimer]

The parking scheme has not been up and running very long at my hospital and I have heard that after the first few weeks they started fining people with a vengeance, staff and patients alike. ( remember the staff already pay for parking anyway).

 

You could try pointing out to the hospital that as the charge is unlawful people are entitled to claim it back that it is reclaimable from whomever the contract was made with - which will probably be them!

 

P.

[BELLA 47]

You could try pointing out to the hospital that as the charge is unlawful people are entitled to claim it back that it is reclaimable from whomever the contract was made with - which will probably be them!

 

P.

 

Yes,you're right I could do that, but first I want to test the water regarding Trust attitudes to staff getting ticketed.What I do next will depend on the response I get to the following letter which I sent to the chief executive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1/12/2006

 

 

Parking Penalties

 

 

 

Dear Chief Executive,

 

I am writing to inform you of the circumstances of my receipt of a penalty notice for parking in a restricted area at the XXXXX XXXXXXXXX Hospital recently and the reasons I believe I should not have to pay it. If, after reading this you agree with me, you have the authority (as a representative of the terms of the parking restrictions contract) to cancel the penalty.

Last week, I inadvertently parked in one of the new restricted parking spaces that have been constructed in the Day Surgery Unit car park. I spotted the space on my left side as I drove in. I then drove forwards past the space and reversed into it using the view from my rear window. I then got out of the car, locked it and walked back across the road towards the Breast Screening Mobile where I was working that day. I discovered the ticket at lunchtime when I was walking back to the hospital to deliver the morning’s films for processing in the Breast Imaging department.

 

Mitigating circumstances

 

1) I did not notice the newly constructed spaces because there was no obvious warning sign (I found the sign later, it was not very big, had a dark background and was high for a motorist to spot).

2) I did not notice the parking pole because it was lying on the ground, thus not in view when looking to the left out of a passenger window as it was obscured by the passenger door.

3) I did not notice the parking pole out of my rear window because it was obscured by the body of my car.

4) I did not notice the parking pole after I got out of my car because it was then under the body of my car which is quite long.

 

5) The staff employed in the Breast Screening team have parked their own vehicles and pool vehicles in the Day Surgery car park regularly over the years, usually to load and unload equipment for the mobile screening van. I had no reason to believe that things had changed.

6) I have not been informed about any changes in parking restrictions by my line manager, or, as far as I know, by the Trust in the form of an E-mail. I have not had the opportunity to access any E-mails lately, mostly due to pressure of work and inaccessibility of the relevant computer to do so.

7) I only work two days a week at the XXX, consequently I often miss news and updates and obviously am not as aware as others of new arrangements. (My working days do not fall on any department meeting days).

 

 

 

As a longstanding member of staff, I have paid for parking since it was first introduced. I still have to pay the full rate even though I am only part time. I have always, to date, been careful to avoid penalties. My parking pass was displayed on my dashboard at the time of the ticketing. The owner of the space has some responsibility to keep the space locked and unavailable to others. Therefore, I think, on this occasion, I should have received a warning, not a fine. I have not appealed to County Parking as I do not believe I would receive an unbiased decision.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Will keep you posted,

Bella

[BELLA 47]

I have also written to the DVLA as follows.

 

 

 

 

 

Freedom of Information

Driver & Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA)

Longview Rd.

Morriston

Swansea

SA99 1AW

 

 

2/6/2006

 

 

 

DISCLOSURE OF NAME AND ADDRESS OF REGISTERED KEEPER

 

 

 

Dear Sir,

I was dismayed to find out that the DVLA gives out names and addresses of registered keepers of vehicles to any private individual who can demonstrate ‘reasonable cause’ and this includes private companies who enforce parking penalties. I know I speak for many who do not consider the unlawful demands of money with menaces to be ‘reasonable cause’. These companies purport to be official, relying on peoples’ ignorance of the law which makes payment of penalties for breach of conduct unrecoverable. Many of them do not adhere to the DVLA code of conduct, specifically, point 3.2 which states ‘. Vehicle keepers should be aware that their names and addresses will be requested from the DVLA.’ County Parking Enforcement Agency Ltd. is an example of this. One can assume from this omission that they realise that warning the victim would soon give rise to a flood of letters such as mine.

I have found out this information by researching my rights, which I believe include my right to refuse to allow private companies or individuals access to my name and address without my permission.

Therefore, I formally request that you withhold this information from the above forthwith.

 

 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

If I think of anything else I'll let you know

 

 

Bella

[PhantomReclaimer]

Well, it's been around a month now since this ticket was issued and there has been no communication what so ever from Parkforce - or any debt collection agency.

 

P.

[PhantomReclaimer]

Still no letter from Mr Parkforce.

 

P.

[demon_x_slash]

Reckon it's 'cos Mr Parkforce was on here and knows you know your rights...? Possibly...?

[BELLA 47]

Hi, Just an update.Dvla wrote a long letter saying(amongst other things) that enquiries from private enforcement companies did represent 'reasonable cause'.Like many other posters on this site I have decided that this government agency is not run with the best interests of the public at heart but rather with the best (financial) interests of itself.The chief executive of the hosital where I work turned down my request for the cancellation of the penalty. However, Like Phantom Reclaimer,I too haven't heard anything from my private enforcement company and it's been over a month.

B

[PhantomReclaimer]

Hi, Just an update.Dvla wrote a long letter saying(amongst other things) that enquiries from private enforcement companies did represent 'reasonable cause'.

B

 

Did they by any chance say precisely why they considered that private parking enforcement companies has reasonable cause?

 

I cannot imagine what legal gymnastics they are performing to come to the conclusion that an unlawful, unenforcible debt is "reasonable cause" for anything!

 

P.

[BELLA 47]

Hi, Here's the whole letter

 

 

 

Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency

Data Sharing & Protection Group

Swansea Vale 2

DVLA

Longview Road

Swansea

SA6 7JL

 

Telephone 01792 76 5194

Fax 01792 76 5210

E-mail daviesjc@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

Website Motoring : Directgov

 

Date: 8th December 2006

Dear XXX XXXXXX

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated 2 June about the release of information from the Agency's vehicle register. I am sorry that you have not received an earlier reply. Your letter has only just reached me,

DVLA takes very seriously its duty under the Data Protection Act to protect the privacy of the motorist whose details it holds for the purposes of registering and licensing vehicles, and to comply with the Act's guiding principles. However, the Act exempts from its non¬disclosure provisions the release of personal data where the law allots it and DVLA is not in a position to refuse those who have a legitimate right to receive information.

Regulation 27 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 requires DVLA to release information from the vehicle register to the police, to local authorities for purposes associated with the investigation of an offence or decriminalised parking contravention, and to anyone who can demonstrate 'reasonable cause' to have it. 'Reasonable cause' is not defined in legislation and requests are considered on their merits.

Requests from private car parking enforcement companies are considered to meet 'reasonable cause". It is recognised that there will be circumstances when the release of personal information is necessary lo protect the legitimate rights of others. Unauthorised parking on private land is a problem many landlords experience and providing them with information is necessary to allow them to enforce their rights to their property. Otherwise, they could argue that DVLA was denying them the ability to seek redress.

Car park enforcement companies are not regulated. If they were, it would fall outside the remit of the DVLA. Despite this, DVLA introduced a voluntary Code of Practice in order to promote best practice amongst car parking companies. Whilst seeking to ensure that vehicle keeper data is released only in appropriate circumstances, it is not a matter for the Agency to decide on the merits of individual cases. Representations about the circumstances relating to

an incident should be made directly to the company. Ultimately, of course, an individual may choose to put his or her case to the courts.

These regulations consolidate legislation that has been in force and working efficiently for

over 40 years. However, when the provisions were originally introduced they did not

anticipate the introduction of electronic databases, the large number of vehicles on the roads,

or the range of bodies now requesting access. Concerns have also recently been raised about

the breadth of organisations that have access to the register. For these reasons, Dr Stephen

Ladyman, the Minister of State for Transport, has reviewed the regulations and announced

tough new measures designed to protect vehicle keepers from misuse of their information,

provide clear and robust complaint procedures where misuse is alleged while allowing those

who do have reasonable cause to get the data they need. Full details of his statement to

Parliament detailing the outcome of the review and the new measures is available on the

Department for Transport's website at http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads 6I2169.hcsp.

New measures for all those making manual enquiries were introduced from 1 November. Full details on the release of information, what constitutes 'reasonable cause', the complaints procedure and the new process for making enquiries are available at www.direct.gov/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/AdviceOnKeepingYourVehicle/fs/en.DVLA's voluntary Code of Practice for private car park enforcement, which was not enforceable under statute, discontinued when the new procedures came into force.

The Minster will be delivering a full progress report on the implementation of the changes 10 Parliament shortly.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Jeff Davies

Data Sharing & Protection Group

 

 

Still haven't heard anything from County Parking

[Kilcott]

Have Phantom Reclaimer & Bella 47 heard any more from Parkforce?

I have written to them saying there was no contract; or, if so, it was unenforceable under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. Also, that penalties are unenforceable at common law.

I also take exception to the terms of their notices. They assert that court costs will be payable. This is untrue. Any claim would be in the Small Claims Court where costs are not payable by the loser.

Also they do not state that they are a limited company on some of their correspondence, as required by the Companies Acts. They use the word "Agency" which implies that they are a government agency like the DVLA or the Passport Agency.

I hope that a defence of the correct legal position will stop them in their tracks.

Has it worked forPhantom Disclaimer & Bella 47?

Kilcott

[PhantomReclaimer]

Hi Kilcott,

 

You are quite right in all you say. I find the way in which these people present their charges to the public deeply disturbing. As I have said time and again; the driver is presented with documents that look very official and give the impression that these payments must be made and are enforcible at law. I think the use of the word "agency" in their name is totally beyond the pale, they are no such thing.

 

I've written to their local trading standards people who don't really seem interested. My local one, however, does. I know a chap there who is pursuing this matter who I'm sure would like to hear from anyone else who has had delaings with these sharks. If you PM me I'll send you his details.

 

P.

[Kilcott]

Thank you for the prompt reply, Phantom Reclaimer.

Have you heard any more from Parkforce?

Any debt agency or County Court summons?

(2) In the meantime I have looked at their website.

They do not say they are a limited company;"agency" again.

I have complained to Companies' House about their omission of "Ltd", because it is so misleading

Kilcott

[PhantomReclaimer]

Haven't heard anything from Parkforce nor anyone collecting on their behalf. I think it may be the case that they may never bother chasing these fines as if someone hasn't paid after getting the ticket it probably means they aren't going to and there isn't any point in chasing something they can't enforce anyway.

 

P.

[Kilcott]

Thank you.

If I hear anything from Parkforce, I shall post it here

Kilcott

[BELLA 47]

Hello Kilcott, My company was called County Parking Enforcement Agency Ltd. and no, I've never heard anything from them after my letter to them which is posted earlier in this thread.

B