N1 Small Claims - Should supporting evidence (reports / letters) be sent?

[prentiss1]

Hi

We are currently in dispute with a builder.

 

 

We have taken all appropriate pre-court action steps and are now at the point of submitting an N1 form to kick off a claim.

 

 

Could someone tell me if any supporting evidence is supposed to be enclosed with this claim form?

Or will this be requested later?

 

 

We have quite a file of letters and expert reports and we are not sure at what point these come into play.

 

Also, (maybe a silly question but I want to do this right).

 

 

If there is not enough form for the particulars of the claim in the space provided,

can you use this space plus another sheet or are you only supposed to use one or the other

 

 

i.e. it does give the option of 'attached.'

I reaslise these particulars are supposed to be fairly concise.

 

Thanks in advance.

[shamrocker]

Andyorch will probably be along later and can advise you on the correct process. It would be worth you consulting with him on the POCs you enter too as getting this right at the start will make your life easier in the long-run, compared to having them too loose or not compliant with CPR.

[Andyorch]

Hi

We are currently in dispute with a builder. We have taken all appropriate pre-court action steps and are now at the point of submitting an N1 form to kick off a claim. Could someone tell me if any supporting evidence is supposed to be enclosed with this claim form? Or will this be requested later? We have quite a file of letters and expert reports and we are not sure at what point these come into play.

 

Also, (maybe a silly question but I want to do this right). If there is not enough form for the particulars of the claim in the space provided, can you use this space plus another sheet or are you only supposed to use one or the other i.e. it does give the option of 'attached.' I reaslise these particulars are supposed to be fairly concise.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Hi prentiss1 and Welcome to CAG

 

 

How do you intend to submit your claim ? MCOL or manually through Salford CCMCC ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

you don't attach anything to the claim

just summarise a brief synopsis

 

 

owe me £XXX for work not done

 

 

details are exchanged later at the WS/DQ stages

[Ganymede]

What experts reports?

 

You need permission from the Court to rely on an expert witness.

[prentiss1]

Andyorch will probably be along later and can advise you on the correct process. It would be worth you consulting with him on the POCs you enter too as getting this right at the start will make your life easier in the long-run, compared to having them too loose or not compliant with CPR.

 

Cheers shamrocker!

[prentiss1]

Hi Andy

I had thought I would do it manually.

Thanks

[prentiss1]

you don't attach anything to the claim

just summarise a brief synopsis

 

 

owe me £XXX for work not done

 

 

details are exchanged later at the WS/DQ stages

 

Much appreciated. I thought that was probably the case but then I read something in a guide that confused me. Cheers.

[prentiss1]

Hi Ganymede

 

We have a report from a structural engineer. Thanks.

[Andyorch]

Hi Andy

I had thought I would do it manually.

Thanks

 

Many thanks...

 

Okay to answer your points raised....

 

" Could someone tell me if any supporting evidence is supposed to be enclosed with this claim form?

Or will this be requested later? Later at the disclosure stage after allocation

 

 

We have quite a file of letters and expert reports and we are not sure at what point these come into play. See above but with regards to expert reports there is a section on the DQ (Directions Questionnaire) which you will complete but only if the defendant submits a defence which requests permission to file Expert Witness evidence.

 

Also, (maybe a silly question but I want to do this right).

 

 

If there is not enough form for the particulars of the claim in the space provided,

can you use this space plus another sheet or are you only supposed to use one or the other.You can issue separate particulars in detail following your initial particulars (see CPR 16 below) but it is advised to keep your initial particulars brief and succinct at this stage...the more you state the more information you provide to the defendant to use in their response (defence) "

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part16/pd_part16

Regards

 

Andy

[prentiss1]

Andy

 

That's excellent. Thanks so much for your help. Such a relief to find somewhere to double check things - doesn't matter how carefully you read things, it always feels better to ask, particularly when you're dealing with something new to you. I won't bore you with the details but this is month 11 of a very stressful dispute with a builder. Firm has left our house in chaos. Not sure it's any consolation to discover that other people up and down the country are also after him for similar problems! Thanks again.

[dx100uk]

there several recent threads here of relevance

 

too

 

regards

 

dx

 

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-0964707606882478:652l7hswbgv&ie=UTF-8&q=builder&sa=Search+CAG#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=builder%202016

[prentiss1]

Cheers dx!

 

All very useful links. Too many cowboy builders around!

 

Regards

Prentiss

[prentiss1]

Hi

I posted at the end of last week. We are (at least were) about to put in an N1 Small Claims form re money owed to us by a rogue builder.

 

We had already put in an ojection to Companies House on Oct 20 re a compulsory strike off. This had been accepted.

 

Just whilst having a final look at the records on CH before getting the form off today, I noticed that the firm's address had changed - as of Fri. Also records for today show that the firm has put in an Extraordinary Resolution to wind up and have appointed a voluntary liquidator.

 

These are my questions:

1. I thought that the accepted objection to the compulsory strike off would have prevented the firm from starting liquidation proceedings. Is this not the case?

 

2. I'm trawling through the internet trying to find stuff on volo liquidation and I note that firms are supposed to have something called a creditors' meeting within 14 days of the winding up resolution (which it appears happened on 21 Oct). We do have two letters from the firm stating that they will pay us money - in very specific terms i.e. full refund (though they never do). Should we not have been informed about such a meeting?

 

3. What do we do now? Do we continue with the court case? Do we contact the liquidator (the full details aren't up on CH website yet as it's only come in today)? Do we make a complaint that we were not invited to a creditors' meeting? If so - to who?

 

And generally... what do you reckon about the situation?

 

Thanks very much in advance

Prentiss

[dx100uk]

Threads merged for history

 

Dx

[prentiss1]

Thanks Dx

 

Sorry, I probably should have done that.

 

I've just spoken to the guy from the firm who is liquidating the company.

 

Before I said anything much at all, he described the Director of the company as 'a complete scallywag' and 'a despicable human being.'

 

He said he has rarely come across anyone who he dislikes so much.

Not much of a help but at least it means they are not particulary sympathetic to the company!

 

He told me his hands were tied to an extent but that I should send him some of the pertinent correspondence so that he can send me a form.

 

They had the creditors meeting on Oct 21 apparently

- nobody turned up

- presumably because nobody had been notified.

We hadn't.

He said he came close to throttling the guy.

 

the liguidator feels that we would probably now be throwing good money down the drain to go to court - unless we can make a personal claim.

 

He reckons we should get a free half hour with a solicitor to clarify our options - if there are any.

 

I am so stressed.

Thanks

Prentiss

[Andyorch]

Is it possible to make a claim against the Director...being a Ltd Company in liquidation ?

 

As far as I am aware there are only two potential ways of bringing a claim directly against a director which are:

 

(1) under a personal guarantee; and (2) for wrongful trading.If the director had given a personal guarantee, then you may have been able to claim for the contractual debt under that guarantee.

 

Where a company becomes insolvent, it is sometimes possible to make a claim against a director on the grounds of wrongful trading.

 

Andy

[prentiss1]

Is it possible to make a claim against the Director...being a Ltd Company in liquidation ?

 

As far as I am aware there are only two potential ways of bringing a claim directly against a director which are:

 

(1) under a personal guarantee; and (2) for wrongful trading.If the director had given a personal guarantee, then you may have been able to claim for the contractual debt under that guarantee.

 

Where a company becomes insolvent, it is sometimes possible to make a claim against a director on the grounds of wrongful trading.

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy

 

He wrote a letter in his name confirming that he would pay back the money in monthly installments. He wrote this in an email with the company email address. However, he wrote it on Oct 7. We now know that he had started the ball rolling re voluntary liquidation on Oct 4. Also, a meeting of creditors was held on Oct 21 and a notice was put in the gazette on Oct 11 confirming the date of the meeting. So, I'm wondering if this would act as a personal guarantee i.e. he made that promise of installments knowing full well that the installments would occur after his company had gone into liquidation.

 

We have also discovered this afternoon that he has already started a company up (listed at Companies House from 28th Oct). This new company is also a loft conversion company (so no change of purpose) and differs from the last one by a change of one word in the title. So, he is clearly planning on continuing the same business. Why are they allowed to get away with this? That's a rhetorical question - but I just can't believe that there are such massive loopholes in the system to allow these people to do this.

 

I'm starting to wonder if there is a route to go down re professional negligence (as he admitted in writing that he installed non regulatory electrics etc). However, I assume that Directors are not held accountable? The orginal company is still 'live' for the time being of course as we put in an objection to a compulsory strike off.

 

Thanks again

Prentiss