Fixed Penalty Notice - Littering (Incorrect on their website)

[adridude]

Hi,

 

I just had a Fixed Penalty Notice (fine) for dropping g a cigarette end on the floor and quite rightly so. So I'm not disputing the fine at all.

 

When I came home looked on the Councils Website, it clearly states:

 

At present Swale Council offers a reduced payment of £60 if the Fixed Penalty id paid in full within 7 days from the offence. After 7 days the penalty goes up to £80. If you fail to pay within the prescribed time and the matter goes to court then you could incur more costs.

 

I then logged in, attempted to pay and voila.. It asked for £80... I contacted the Council and asked to speak to the team which deals with this to get the correct amount put on (as I received the fine today) and was told that I wasn't able to speak to them.

 

I explained about the website, they confirmed this; Her manager confirmed too that the site indeed IS incorrect and that as per 1st April there isn't a reduced fee any more.

 

Luckily for me, I:

 

1) Took screenshots of the entirety of the page (including the date etc... in my computers status bar)

2) Printed off a copy of the page

3) Saved a copy of the page

 

With the above quote in it.

 

I was then assured that a manager from the team will contact me back this afternoon as they were unable to override the amount on the phone with me.

 

Can I hold them against this £60 (rather than £80) that they quoted on their website?

 

I've just confirmed now (58 minutes later) that the websites been amended... Lucky I took a load of screen shots and that

 

Cheers,

 

Ade

[adridude]

I wasn't able to edit the above so had to reply...

 

I just googled around and found the departments number directly. They said that the law changes as per April 1st and I'd have to pay the full £80. She said that she wasn't aware of the incorrect notice on their website and regardless, of what they said, I'd pay the full £80.

 

The fact that I went to their website to get more information about these fines and got the information I needed (despite them incorrectly advertising it) and offered to pay what they asked for isn't my issue. I did as they publicised.

[Sparks_]

Was you given a chance to pick up your cigerette end before the fine was given? Did they ask you for ID? What if you do not have ID on you what happens then?

Personally I think £80 is way to much of a fine....more than some peoples income for the week...if you are on JSA or ESA assessment rate!

[adridude]

It's been paid and no I wasn't given the chance.

 

I'm not arguing the fine at all. And if you can't afford it and can prove that they'll let you pay in instalments etc... The point of a fine is to pretty much make you remember not to do it again.. Which I'm pretty sure I won't forget lol

 

I'm arguing:

 

1) Their public notice stated that I only had to pay £60 if paid within 7 days, £80 if after 7 days

2) Why they felt it necessary to notify the public 4 days after this "apparent law" came into effect

 

I'm expecting to get my £20 back, but if they're going to put up a struggle, I'm going to put something together (a nice illustrated youtube video) to post on their Facebook and Twitter pages to alert the public. I wonder then how many people will put their claims in then

 

I know £20 is trivial in the grand scheme of things, but what got my back up is that I accepted buy wrong doing, got information from their site, was going to comply full without any more thought about it and wham... They totally didn't do what their website clearly said.

[ericsbrother]

If the council has the law to obey force majeure applies and the web site cannot be used to claim the discount regardless of the wrong information.

Changes in law are not retrospective so if the FPN was issued before the 1/4 then you should have the right to pay the reduced amount as that is what was in place at the time.

[Sparks_]

I was just wondering about the fines....how do they get your ID if you refuse to give it?

Plus do they have to have notices placed around the town warning about the fixed penalties like those fixed penalties for over staying in a private car park?

[adridude]

If the council has the law to obey force majeure applies and the web site cannot be used to claim the discount regardless of the wrong information.

Changes in law are not retrospective so if the FPN was issued before the 1/4 then you should have the right to pay the reduced amount as that is what was in place at the time.

 

This wasn't about 'force majeure'. The fine is naturally £80 and has been all the time. The council, locally, choose to lessen the fine through 'discount' if paid within 7 days. So that was something decided locally and not up the food chain.

[adridude]

They can get the police involved and get me properly identified. Not identifying yourself to a council official is as bad as doing the same to police. Plus the CCTV cameras they have on themselves will prove who I am. Despite me telling them that I don't want to be recorded

[adridude]

Any idea from anyone if this is still arguable?

 

Thanks ericsbrother for your input there, but I still feel that something was incorrectly addressed here:

 

1) I was a citizen, with a duty to fulfil for the first time and in need of more information

2) I went to my local authorities website, obtained the advise they had on their site

3) found it was wrong and was ultimately misinformed

[adridude]

Issue resolved.

 

The department manager got involved and refunded the £20. He identified the issue as "human error", so nothing further to do/say here I guess..

 

Thanks for the feedback.

[king12345]

Council officials have power of detention in case someone refuses to provide their detail, however most councils have a strict policy of no touching anyone.

This is to reduce the number of ceo going sick everytime they're pushed.

Something peculiar that I have seen outside barking station: CEO approached a guy who had just dropped a cigarette butt on the floor.

He explained to this guy that he was going to be issued a pcn.

The guy said "am I under arrest?"

CEO "no, but..."

And before he could finish the guy had gone.