HERMES/EBAY loopholes £140 down and feeling utterly powerless

[HEIA1]

Bought a Lacie Rugged Hard Drive on Ebay via Paypal for £139.99, postage included (beware...still selling at this price, I'm guessing I can't give details of seller here) Payment taken promptly. Estimated delivery dates provided via e-bay. I left NO additional information re delivery.

 

One day prior to the estimated delivery date period, I returned home from work (no text or E-mail from Hermes) to find HERMES courier had posted a 'sorry you were out' card with hand-written FRONT DOOR as some feeble indication of what he/she has decided to do with my item once they'd discovered I was not in. My home has a front door that leads onto a major public pavement and main road. Obviously the parcel wasn't there.

 

I contacted the seller, they have been consistently distant. I also tried to contact Hermes, they leave no customer services number and again, I have found myself confronted with a host of strategies that make it hard for you to be heard.

 

 

I had to wait to even open a case with eBay until the estimated delivery time was up which is in itself, a frustration. I gave the seller every chance to give me a refund or a replacement, stipulating that he has a contract with me to ensure that the item gets into my hands safely and that disputes with couriers are not my concern. He eventually asked eBay to step in and they have closed the case because he sent the parcel using 'tracking' and that the status of the parcel reads as 'delivered'.

 

So according to everyone (except me) the item has been delivered, case is closed, even if it the item was effectively left in the middle of a pavement.

 

I feel gutted that people can get away with this. Seems to me that these loopholes disempower the buyer utterly and create a breeding ground for dishonesty and [problem]ming.

 

I left the seller bad feedback (nothing personal just the bare truth) and eBay erased it because of the findings of their 'so-called' investigation. The seller remains one of their top rated sellers yet couldn't care less that I have been fleeced. Thanks to Ebay, I have no voice and no way of warning others. I also have no money to make a second purchase of an item I really need to study.

 

I know this a story you have probably heard thousands of times on this site, but it's my first time (being fleeced and posting on a forum!) Does anyone know if I stand a chance if I pursue this matter further and how do I go about this?

 

Thank you for your help.

Edited March 14, 2016 by citizenB
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[martin2006]

If the paypal payment was linked to your debit card then maybe a chargeback could be done via your bank

[HEIA1]

I've never heard of a 'chargeback'. I like the sound of it though. I shall look into it. Thank you for the speedy response Martin 2006.

[martin2006]

Its done via your bank, dont let them fob you off that they cant do it, they can and they know they can

[BankFodder]

Beware. If you do a charge back against PayPal, they may retaliate and close your account.

You would be better off proceeding against the seller or against Hermes.

Ask Hermes for proof of delivery.

[JoeyJoeC]

Call eBay and explain it to them on the phone, they will be reluctant at first, but keep on the phone and keep telling them they need to do something, they will eventually just refund you. I have had to do this a few times for high priced items before. They will refund out of "good will".

 

I done this for a laptop that arrived with a smashed screen once. They ended up refunding me and also telling me to keep the laptop (The seller also got paid from me so everyone wins!)

 

Joe

[HEIA1]

Thanks Bankfodder,

What other proof of delivery is there beyond the status that the courier provides electronically? (and a 'sorry you were out slip' that states that the parcel was dumped?!)

[HEIA1]

Thanks Joe,

The lady I spoke to on the phone said that proof of delivery provided from the seller (i.e.: tracking) is all that they require. She certainly didn't sound as though she would budge on this. Do you still think it's worth me calling eBay back?

What gets me is that all the proof for the investigation is provided by the seller-its all weighed in their favour. I have a photo of the docket, a picture of my street and lots of other evidence well worth considering but they asked for none of it. They also claim to have looked at all the E-mail correspondence between me and the seller (hotmail and eBay messages) but these were provided by the seller. How do I even know that he sent the ones that contained the information that they needed to make a fair decision?

Anyway, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

[HEIA1]

One more question Bankfodder. How would you proceed against the seller?

[JoeyJoeC]

Just a quick thing... Have you checked your wheely bins? Hermes always delivers to my girlfriends wheely bins for some reason.

[HEIA1]

That says an awful lot about the quality of service!

No wheely bins JoeyJoeC but recycling goes out on the day it was delivered as it goes....they are left nowhere near 'front door' though and its long gone if thats what they have done. Just out of curiosity, when they leave it in your lady's bin, do they actually write that on the slip?! If they don't, that means that we are effectively saying that Hermes couriers can put your stuff anywhere and write anything aren't we?

[JoeyJoeC]

That says an awful lot about the quality of service!

No wheely bins JoeyJoeC but recycling goes out on the day it was delivered as it goes....they are left nowhere near 'front door' though and its long gone if thats what they have done. Just out of curiosity, when they leave it in your lady's bin, do they actually write that on the slip?! If they don't, that means that we are effectively saying that Hermes couriers can put your stuff anywhere and write anything aren't we?

 

They normally write something to that affect. Most of the time an unintelligible squiggle. Always shows up online as "Signed by customer" as well.

[HEIA1]

That is so bad! I'm a bit of an idealist but how can a company with so little integrity get away with such bad service?

JoeyJoe C, has your girlfriend ever lost an item then?

[HEIA1]

P.S: does anyone know whether or not Watchdog are interested in this kind of stuff?

[ericsbrother]

no, too common.

I had a similar experience as a seller and just refunded the money and claimed the piffling £25 from myhermes leaving me massively out of pocket. It is a pity your seller isnt that honest. Becasue they are a company it is for them to make sure the goods arrive and they havent.. Your only recourse is to sue the seller and show the court that the card saying parcel left in bin or whatever isnt proof of delivery.

You or the seller cant sue Hermes because they are a common carrier and protected by an appeal court decision that appears to have no relevance but that is the law.

[JoeyJoeC]

I think I'd defiantly be back on the phone to eBay and just refuse to hang up until they agree to refund you. If they refuse, ask to be transferred to someone higher up.

 

Tell them the item was not signed for by you or anyone else from the address, and the seller (who is in the contract with the delivery company) is refusing to do anything about it. Keep on at it. You may have to repeat yourself a few times but it does eventually work.

 

Last resort is the charge back, which may leave your account suspended, and if DD is still setup, they may just take the money back again.

 

Is the guys name Mark by any chance?

[ThedaBara]

Did you see the programme about couriers the other week...? I used to work for DHL at Home, but Yokel and Herpes are the same in that they only pay their couriers about 80p per drop and you don't get paid unless you deliver. That's why they dump the parcels any old where. TB

[havinastella]

It's very simple. Your contract is with the seller, no one else.

 

Insist he contacts the courier and find the parcel. If he refuses, sue him!

[aburobert]

IHMO you need to take action against the seller. My Hermes were contracted and paid by them to deliver the item. This they have failed to do so it is for the seller to deal with My Hermes - not you.

 

If you decide to take further action then a Letter Before Action is needed but don't go down this route unless you intend to carry through. It is for the seller to prove the item was delivered - if he/she can't they they need to refund you in full. The Distance Selling Regulations are on your side and the seller must realise this so it would be doubtful they would risk the added expenses of Court Action if they are likely to lose.

 

As stated previously if you go down the chargeback route Paypal will close your account - if you do not use Paypal much it may be easier to do this but not if Paypal is used extensively by yourself as it can be a pain having to open a new account as you will need different banking and email details to those previously used (as well as some other minor changes).

[HEIA1]

Thanks aburobert, great advice. In fact, thank you to all who persevered through my epic opening post and then took the time to offer advice. I know its a trivial matter in the grand scheme of things-so I appreciate everyones time.

Two last questions before I leave you all alone!

1) Has anyone gone down the small courts route? Is it costly? How stressful?

2) Is there anywhere other than via Ebay, that you can warn others about dishonest sellers? If Ebay withdraws all negative feedback based on tracking alone, I'm wondering just how many times this guy has got away with this. As I said, he rates as one of Ebay's top rated sellers and he is selling a lot of electronic items, in other words, buyers risk losing large sums of money.

[aburobert]

The Small Claims is as stressful as you let it be.

So long as you have a good case, are organised and do things in the right order it is IMHO pretty painless. Most back away at the Letter Before Action if they think you are serious, some back down and cough up when they get the Summons. Some 'die hards' will hang on until the last moment to see if you will back down. Some will totally ignore the Summons and you get judgment by default. Very few will actually take you on if you have a good case because, for them, it is throwing good money after bad.

 

But because so few stand up for their rights it is sellers like yours that get away with treating their customers like rubbish.

 

Places like Facebook, Twitter and hosts of review sites are where you can highlight your sellers shortcomings.

[liverpoolluke]

i haver had something similar to this myself, all is not lost, go into paypal (paypal case's can be opened even after eBay ignore you) and raise an item not a described case, be very clear with your details, you ordered item X but received a card with scraps of writing on it, do not say anything else, keep it all matter of fact, paypal will ask you to return the item and you send via royal mail recorded delivery the note left by hermes you giver paypal the tracking details