Claim from Arrow global Limited / Sainsburys credit card

[catsfella]

Hi and thanks for looking at this thread.

 

I am about to defend a claim from an old Sainsburys credit card debt which has literally just become statute barred...I hope!

 

Name of the Claimant Arrow Global Limited

Date of issue – 30th Nov 2015

Date to submit defence = 4pm 01 Jan16 (33 days in total) -

 

What is the claim for –

 

 

1. The claim is for the sum of £7000 in respect of monies owing by the defendant

on a credit agreement held by the defendant with Sainsburys Bank PLC under account number 44444455555

upon which the defendant failed to maintain payments.

 

2,A Default notice was served upon which the defendant and has not been complied with.

 

3 By virtue of a sale agreement between Sainsburys bank PLC and the claimant, the claim vested in the claimant who has a genuine interest.

The defendant has been notified of the assignment by letter.

 

What is the value of the claim £8000

Is the claim for a current account (Overdraft) or credit/loan account or mobile phone account - Credit card

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007/ - before

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. -- debt purchaser

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not sure

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? yes, notice dated 11th feb 2010

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? I dont think so but couldnt be 100% sure

Why did you cease payments? - first payment missed 24th November 2009

 

What was the date of your last payment? last payment made 24th October 2009

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

 

 

sent CCA request which took 3 months to arrive.

The document they sent had a signature on but it was really just confirming personal details and my signature on the bottom.

On the rear of the photocopy they sent me were some reconstructed terms and conditions.

I placed the account in dispute and stopped payments.

I also asked for a photocopy of the actual rear of the document but one was never sent to me.

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? no

[dx100uk]

is this:

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?221566-Received-from-Mint

[catsfella]

I haven't sent a CCA or CPR as I was banking on just going statute barred as its just over 6 years since payments ceased.

 

dx has advised me to do this anyway as a backup which I will be sending in the morning.

 

Any input would be welcome and appreciated.

 

I am now becoming worried that the actual statute barred date occurs is very hazey,

some say default date ,

some say last time a payment was made,

and some say date first payment was missed.

 

I would really like some confirmation on this as I have another claim which has also just come out of the blue

which is only statute barred if it goes from the date of the last payment,

 

if it goes from the date first payment missed then it is not statute barred

(I am just about to add a thread for this separately)

[catsfella]

"is this:

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ived-from-Mint"

 

Hi dx, no that one is a different account

[unclebulgaria67]

The SB date runs from whenever you defaulted on the account, which is usually about a month after you missed a payment due date. But you could still enter SB as part of defence and it us up to them to prove otherwise.

 

I think we would need to see the CCA they sent to you and therefore you could scan it in to add as a pdf attatchment to a post or add a link to online storage e.g photobucket of the document. Sounds like what they sent was not tbe original but a part copy. For a pre Apr 2007 account, they should need the original or a full copy of it.

[dx100uk]

you should not mix an SB defence with anything else.

 

if your last payment was 24th oct 2009 and the claimform was issued 30th nov 2015

 

I'd go file the SB defence now.

 

The following defence is all you need if it is SB

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on (insert date).

2 The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the limitation act 1980.

.

If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

.

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £[insert figure from their POC] or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

 

 

 

 

...............

 

 

its for the claimant to prove the debt is not SB'd

 

 

not for you to prove it IS.

dx

[catsfella]

Thanks dx and unclebulgaria for your time.

 

 

Im panicing now as its down to the judge to decide if enough time has elapsed for SB.

 

 

This is the CCA I received when I first applied for one in 2009.

[renegadeimp]

Its not up to a judge. If 6 years or more has elapsed, then under LAW the debt is SB and can never be unbarred.

[renegadeimp]

Regarding the CCA, is that the one sainsburys sent, or the DCA. If sainsburys sent it, keep it for your records. You need to cca the DCA. If the CCA isnt identical, as the debt was pre 2007, then theyre out of luck.

[catsfella]

yes this is the one originally sent by the creditor in 2009

[Ford]

catsfella

dont panic. but, it will be close!

 

as suggested, the cause of action shld be from the deemed breach (not necessarily the actual last payment if the breach is after).

 

 

the issue seems to be when was the deemed breach of the agreement terms.

generally that shld be from around the next missed payment(s). but, some credit card terms allow(ed) for a missed payment,

so it cld be good to get the cca request done so it can be seen what the terms were. just in case.

 

but, even then, some cruditors have argued it from the default notice (sometimes successfully at first instance). or even tried arguing the default date.

 

as you say, it is for the J on the day to make their judgment (if it gets that far). if a J makes the wrong decision is a different matter...

[renegadeimp]

You could CCA arrow. you have a copy of the original, so if theres doesnt match, theyre screwed.

[catsfella]

Thanks again for everyones help.

 

I have done an unsigned CCA to the claimant with a £1 postal order and am about to send a cpr31.15 request to the solicitors. Could someone please confirm its correct as I'm confused by Cpr31.14 and Cpr31.15. Is it the same document except I mention it is in accordance with CPR31.15 in it or is it a different doc? Also could someone please confirm that this also requires a £10 postal order and should not be signed. Thanks in advance

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]60726[/ATTACH]

[dx100uk]

in the legal section of the library

credit version of the 31:14 not 15

 

 

dx

[catsfella]

Thanks dx

[Ford]

? Also could someone please confirm that this also requires a £10 postal order and should not be signed. Thanks in advance

 

 

theres no 10£ fee required for cpr 31.14

[catsfella]

Thanks Ford

 

Ive got to put my defence in by tomorrow

Im really unsure which way to go on this.

 

 

Its a safer bet with SB than my other thread

as on this one a payment was missed over the six years ago

but still is down to the judges interpretation.

 

 

I think that the signature document on this is also unenforceable

but would really appreciate it being looked at.

 

 

I even think that this has been made fraudulently as the box headed "the agreement' has the right hand side cut off quite obviously

, plus the rear of the doc is just reconstituted t&c's.

[Ford]

there seems to be an issue re when the 'cause of action' should be.

in general contract, it is usually re a breach of the agreement terms. so the terms need to be looked at.

but, some claimants argue it being the default notice, which has succeeded in some threads (eg here #134 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?447033-PRA-Group-claimform-old-MBNA-card-debt/page7. though i think this maybe up for appeal)

give andyorch a nudge, see if he can look in also.

 

ps. wld think do the bar defence anyway.

also do the cca request as back up.

[catsfella]

Thanks again Ford, and all the best to everyone!!!

 

So if I go for statute barred and it fails can I then say there is a problem with the credit agreement later or do I need to mention it in my defence?

[dx100uk]

I refer you to post 6

 

 

you can refer to the agreement at a later stage IF it ever gets that far

[catsfella]

Great, thanks dx, that's the defence I used.

[catsfella]

This site is fantastic and it's users and the people that share their time (even on New Year's Day)and knowledge are quite unbelievable.

 

 

Without your help I dread to think how different my financial situation and mental health would be!!!

 

 

I shall certainly be making a donation as way of thanks.

 

Have a great 2016 everybody!!!

[Ford]

Great, thanks dx, that's the defence I used.

goodo

lets see what they come back with.

[renegadeimp]

When you call out a DCA and you have proof, some will try and call your bluff and say they dont believe you but they will offer a discount, others will simply go quiet and sell the debt on. If the latter happens and they havent marked the debt as SB to the new buyer, then they will be breaking the FCA rules.

[Ford]

from a post in another thread, for your ref catsfella;

 

Unsecured credit debts

Unsecured credit debts are things like credit cards, store cards, personal loans and catalogues. When using the limitation act, these debts are often called ‘simple contract debts’.

The Limitation Act says that the limitation period for simple contract debts is six years.

The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for simple contract debts, is usually when your agreement says the creditor is able to take court action because you have fallen behind with payments. This is normally after one or two missed payments.

Other debts are more complex:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.u k/en...limitation_act