Cahoot response to CCA request.

[hannanshah]

My father issued a CCA request to a legal firm pursuing a debt. The firm has responded with the below Credit Agreement from Cahoot.

 

Is anyone able to have a look at it and tell me whether there is anything wrong with the agreement?

 

Many thanks.

cahoot_EDIT.pdf

Edited July 4, 2010 by hannanshah

[harrassed senior]

If that is all they sent then the Terms and Conditions are missing. Is there any indication of the number of pages ie. 1 of 4 etc. and how many of those pages do you have?

[hannanshah]

If that is all they sent then the Terms and Conditions are missing. Is there any indication of the number of pages ie. 1 of 4 etc. and how many of those pages do you have?

 

I'll have to check but I think it's just this plus a bunch of gibberish looking statements.

[harrassed senior]

If there are no Terms and Conditions it is not enforceable so same in dispute letter here too.

[hannanshah]

If there are no Terms and Conditions it is not enforceable so same in dispute letter here too.

 

We have decided to write back to Cahoot stating that the account is in dispute but in the interests of settling the matter we make a F&F offer of 5%. We have also included the usual caveats about marking credit records as settled, not pursuing or selling remainder of debt etc.

[hannanshah]

Update

 

We wrote a letter stating the account is in dispute and we are making a 5% offer, as described in my previous post and they have posted back a response which I have attached.

 

As they had failed to attach the terms to their original response to the CCA request (see attachment in earlier post) they have now sent in their CURRENT T&C's. Does this mean they have complied with the CCA request?

 

They have also refused the 5% offer but wish to 'discuss' a settlement. There is no way we will phone them and wish to keep any correspondence in writing.

 

The letter we wrote was quite simple. One part of me thinks I should respond with a stronger worded letter such as in this post http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/266261-calder-financial-offer-clear-2.html#post3017541 . The other says to proceed with a final offer of 10% (assuming that the CCA request hasn't been complied with.

 

Any advice on how we should proceed?

cahoot.pdf

[Hardupnotfedup]

Send one offering 4% and tell them in no uncertain terms that this is your final offer and 4% is better than nothing which is the sum they will get with no enforceable agreement.

Be prepared for it to be passed on to Fredricksons if they refuse your offer

[intree]

CAHOOT!!

 

I am in the same boat, however I did not offer anything and made no payments, since february 2010. They have not asked for any money or at the moment taken any action, the agreement was also from 2000, and as the one sent to you.

 

I am going to wait for them to contact me, as they are not able to supply a valid agreement, its their problem, why should they be allowed to enforce agreements which are not in the prescribed terms, I am sure that they would not bend over backwards for us if we needed their help.

 

I will keep you updated

[hannanshah]

Update

 

My father sent the below letter to Cahoot in response to the original credit agreement (without terms) and CURRENT Cahoot T&C's they had supplied to us in response to our CCA request.

 

Thank you for your letter of 09/07/2010, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On 28 May 2010 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the 29/07/2010. You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 18 June 2010.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

• You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

• You may not pass the account to a third party.

• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

In the interest of settling this matter, I ask you to consider this letter as a formal offer from me to make a payment of 5% of the total amount you claim that I owe you as Full and Final settlement of my debt.

 

If you do choose to accept my offer I require the following guarantees in writing before I will release my payment to you:

 

- You confirm that the debt will be settled in full by my payment, and further confirm that you nor any associate company will pursue me for the remainder at any point in the future.

- You confirm that you will not sell any remaining portion of the debt to another company or debt collection agency.

- You confirm that, on receipt of my payment, an entry will be made on my credit file stating that this debt is settled in full.

- You confirm that you understand this payment is made in full and final settlement of the debt.

 

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

We got a response which basically supplies the same documents again with a note saying that it appears the documents they sent earlier hadn't been received by us. They say the CCA request has been complied with and they rejected the 5% F&F offer.

 

My simple question is: has the CCA request been complied with? At the moment we have a copy of the original application form (attached in post 1 of this thread), the current Cahoot terms and conditions and a bunch of statements.

[harrassed senior]

You could send them this:

 

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

This account is in dispute .

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere Application Form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The document sent purporting to be a Credit Agreement does not contain any of the Prescribed Terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the Prescribed Terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the Terms are present in the document suplied.

Since this document does not contain the required Prescribed Terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states:

127(3) The Court shall not make an Enforcement Order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of Agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with Regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the Prescribed Terms of the Agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection.

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit Agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

Since the supplied Agreement is unenforceable it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

[hannanshah]

A typo in my previous post. They have provided us with the credit agreement not the original application form as I incorrectly stated.

[hannanshah]

b ump

 

Sorry I just wanted to be sure. I mistakingly said I have received an application form when in fact I have been sent a credit agreement (attached in the first post) along with the current Cahoot terms and conditions. Has the CCA request been complied with?

[hannanshah]

Bump

 

Can someone tell me if the above Cahoot response in post 1 complies with the CCA request?

 

They have send the credit agreement along with the current Cahoot terms and Conditions.

 

I just need a simple yes or no so that I can proceed with a final offer if they have complied.

 

Thanks