Housing Benefit Fraud Investigation

[Fed up and soon homeless]

Hi all,

 

Please go gently on me I am new to benefits and now find myself in a very unfortunate position with no one to turn to.

 

I will try not to waffle but some background may help. Please do read this even though it’s long as I really do need some help, desperately. I’m male mid 40s and have held down well paid high pressure employment all of my life. Over the past 6-7 years I have had several mental struggles. I tried a sabbatical of three months Dec 2013 - Mar 2014 and took off traveling. This was without claiming any benefits. I returned in early March 2014 to full time employment and it soon became clear to friends and family I was not well. I have only recently realised the magnitude of this. I was drinking heavily and during a moment of madness (totally out of character) was arrested for drunk driving! This cost me my job, home and everything. Whilst I have much remorse for this episode I actually believe it was a blessing in disguise.

 

Fast forward to several doctors and DWP interviews and I am now on a waiting list for counselling. My mood is generally pretty down and I am a shadow of my former extrovert self. I suffer depression, anxiety and fear strangers. Sleep is not good and I lack any motivation. I am the person I would have always said pull yourself together to, however I just can’t seem to…

 

Before my breakdown and loss of employment I had a friend (female) who was buying a flat in South Wales. She had suggested I rent from her, as it was more affordable than where I was currently renting and would also cut down on much of my driving, and associated stress. This I agreed. She (unknown to me at the time) was also concerned for my wellbeing.

 

I moved into the flat and she would stay over the odd night. The rest of the time she was off doing her own thing. I paid a month and a bit up front, however she did not require a deposit. We did not have a formal rent agreement in place at the start. All utilities inc. council tax were in her name, and I paid a fixed monthly all inclusive rent.

 

This was fine for the first few weeks, then everything went horribly wrong for me, and thus my landlady.

Cut a long story short I received dual occupancy HB, and no help regarding CT. This was because I explained at my initial HB meeting the landlady was a personal friend, and occasionally stayed over. It is a one bedroom flat and she would sleep on the sofa. The council then hit her with a backdated demand for CT from the date I moved in saying we both lived there! This she paid as her protests fell on deaf ears.

 

I also receive ESA plus PIP enhanced care, no mobility. My friend the landlady has also become my carer and honestly without her help I would be lost I feel unable to go anywhere without her present. She does not receive money for this as her earnings are too high, something like anything over £105 a week? She does however offer me incredible support.. This may seem a dramatic thing to say but honestly without her I am not sure I would still be here.

 

My landlady was investigated on a totally separate issue by trading standard sometime before Christmas 2014. Her laptop was taken and whilst there was no case for her to answer the officers had seen some emails between us regarding a very unfortunate event which happened before I moved into the property. They added 2 + 2 and came up with something well over 90 and decided my claim for HB was fraudulent as they believed (very wrongly) we were in a relationship! They also had copies of texts we have sent eachother and we often sign off love you or such but I used to do that with my rugby mates it’s simply an expression. The council interviewed my landlady but not me as they would not allow her present for support in my interview and did not arrange anyone else.

 

My current situation which has been since Dec 2014 and the council are fully aware of is I live in the flat and my landlady and friend is my carer. She is here now 2-3 nights a week as she looks after me. However they stopped all my HB about three months ago and when I asked for a statement of reason they say it is non-commercial. We did however draw up and sign a rental agreement, however they said they did not need to see it at the begining, and have not asked to see it since. They also sent me conflicting letters as to why! They also say my landlady said we were in a relationship when they interviewed her, this she absolutely did not! There is a huge age gap and she wants marriage kids etc. I can’t have more children (I have one) and as for marriage, never again.

 

Apparently as of 1st June 2015 my ‘case’ has moved from the council to the DWP, and I have heard nothing. I feel incredibly guilty for my landlady as she is in an impossible position. I feel the only hope is for her to make me homeless and then seek help elsewhere, however I am afraid of losing her much needed support.

I have done a lot of research and even as joint occupancy, in our particular circumstances I believe we should only pay 50% CT as I am classed disabled and she is my carer. I believe the council have a legal duty to engage with people with protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010, identified as being relevant to the policy? This would include in my particular case a person who has a mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on that person's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. You can get a 50% discount off your bill if you and all the other occupiers are disregarded. For a full list, see the Disability Rights Handbook. Those who are disregarded include people who are considered to be ‘severely mentally impaired’ and carers.

 

My biggest concern however is HB, as without it I lose any hope I have of rebuilding in the future. Please could someone offer me some advice in this matter as to say I am going out of my mind would be an understatement. I just want to put this whole thing behind me and get on with sorting my life, however I simply cannot. There is no contact from council or DWP and I am left in limbo not knowing if/when this will be resolved. In addition my landlady has bills which I am concerned for, however she is also very sympathetic, and as such I am not sure she would say I have to leave.

 

Perhaps I should just sleep downstairs in the lobby and have her phone the council? The really stupid thing is they would most likely pay full HB and help with CT if I rented from another person. This seems contradictory to both my care needs and their (plus you’re the tax payers) best financial interest!

 

I hope the above makes some sense, really hope someone can help. Thank you.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Fed up and soon homeless

[dx100uk]

probably cause by the device/method you have used to pop your post up

but its in one large chunk

 

 

it might help your cause

to use the edit post icon in the grey bottom toolbar to add some blank lines and sentences

 

 

dx

[Fed up and soon homeless]

Hi dx100uk does it read any better now? Seemd ok on my browser, not sure what is happening? I wrote in Word and copied over as large post... Thank you

[mikeymack2002]

Welcome to CAG.

 

 

Can you have a look at this attachment and see how you may be seen as living as a couple in the eyes of the LA/DWP then pop back with your questions please

[Fed up and soon homeless]

Hi and thank you for reply.

 

Interesting notes-

 

Future plans. I would love to live in South America. My landlady has grand ideas of business and wealth in UK. I would never marry again, she is keen to. She absolutely wants children. I have one and four years ago had a vasectomy, which was absolutely the right decision for me.

 

Our finances are totally separate. I pay my food, she pays hers. All bills etc. are in her name, I pay all inclusive rent.

 

Nights she is here she will often cook for both of us. Pathetic as it may sound this falls under my care as it is when I eat a decent meal. When she is not here I either pick or do not eat.

 

There is no garden. She does housework (majority) plus washing ironing. This again I am ashamed to say falls under my care.

 

Sexual relations. I really did not want to say this but is very relevant I guess. We did have some sexual encounters in the past, nothing more, and not meaningful purely sex. Fact is due to my ‘condition’ I am currently impotent so would be impossible even if either of us wanted to. She is an incredible emotional support, nothing more.

 

The general relationship heading does to a certain extent describe us, however she is my carer and if she did not offer the support under that heading she would no longer be my carer?

 

To be honest having read the attached I feel even more frustrated. We are absolutely not LTAMC. What is worse they have accused us as such, stopped all help, and to date not offered me a chance to put over my side of the situation. Surely in UK law one is innocent until proven guilty?

 

Thank you again and I hope the above helps? Someone somewhere has the answer I am sure.

Edited June 5, 2015 by honeybee13
Paras.

[mikeymack2002]

Thank you for a very candid response, your response has actually opened a new can of worms, your situation is interlaced with other legislation and a difficult one to discuss, because of this it will be harder to give you direct advice in open forum. Suffice to say, you can appeal the decision to why the LA/DWP believe this situation "appears" that you are LTAMC, you have openly stated there is/was an intimate relationship and that they believe this to be you possibly LTAMC.

 

 

Do you pay your carer for your care package? In as much as you have said at post #1 You stated that you had a breakdown and they gave/give support to you. DWP rules are extremely complex and even more difficult to understand if as in your case you have had a breakdown as well. Have you spoken to the CAB on this matter yet? They have a vast data base of information.

 

 

You could also see here http://www.advicenow.org.uk/living-together/money/benefits-and-livingtogether-html,177,FP.html have a read and pop back please

[Fed up and soon homeless]

Hi,

 

CAB seemed none too inclined to help as they said it's a very complex case. In the attached above it clearly states -

 

A sexual relationship is an important part of a marriage and therefore of LTAMC. But evidence of a sexual relationship does not, on its own, mean that two people should be thought of as LTAMC. Mere lovers are not LTAMC.

 

The fact we did have sex, we don't currently, should not be basis enough to simply stop my HB and render me homeless? Also if I were to move into a different property my carer would still be present, assuming she does not wash her hands of me and this whole mess in the meantime.

 

The whole situation to me seems farsical, however I am left in limbo with no options to speed things up. At least that is how it feels.

 

I was given a name and contact number for the DWP person for my 'case'. Again it sounds weak but I am affraid to call, as I am none too good over the phone. I would however be happy to email, as I can take my time. Do I at least have any rights for their email address? My thoughts are my carer could insist on this, and I could at least put some pressure on?

 

Thank you.

[mikeymack2002]

Does the person (LL) have her own property? Are there any financial connections and so on? except the paying of the rent?

[Fed up and soon homeless]

The only property she has is the one I live in. It was her intention to LET the property and rent a small place close to her work. This however has not proven possible as the council refused to pay full HB as she originally stopped over one night a week. She has now pretty much been forced to be here. She works 24 hours on 24 hours off and is here 3-4 nights a week in a care capicity.

 

Thank you

[mikeymack2002]

I know I have given you reading material I have some more see page 11 of the attachment.

 

 

Also how many bedrooms does your property have?

[mikeymack2002]

I am away from my PC for a while I will return shortly

[Fed up and soon homeless]

mikeymack 2002 thank you for the second attachment, it makes very interesting reading, which I will continue after this reply.

 

The property is one bedroom, as I said before she sleeps on the sofa when she stays here.

 

It would seem possible the LA should rehouse me in a two bedroom property? To be honest I don't really want the hastly and stress of moving as I call this place home. All I really want is for fair treatment and to be able to afford to stay here. Interesting how this option would actually be considerable cheaper for the LA too.

 

Many thanks

[kk3852]

I'm not sure if we are sending you down the wrong route of looking at the regulations for living together as a married couple as you say in your original post that the statement of reasons said that the decision was based on the tenancy being non-commercial.

This is a very different matter to being treated as a couple.

 

Can you confirm the reasons for the disallowance please

[Fed up and soon homeless]

Fair point, and why it's good for many people to look at the problem...

 

My understanding of non-comercial from my limited research is it's not enforcable by law? When I had my initial interview for HB I explained as above and at that particular time there was no tenancy agreement in place. I said I could retrospect one, however, they said this was not uncommon and not necessary. My claim went ahead as described being awarded dual occupancy and no CT help.

 

My landlady at the time did however produce an agreement which we both signed, and both still have copies of. It was for 12 months. Neither of us have ever been asked to provide this, however, (again only my best guess) surely this makes the tenancy comercial?

 

(EDIT) May also be worth mentioning my offer to provide a tenancy agreement at the time was in writing and via email so I have absolute proof of this.

 

Thank you

Edited June 5, 2015 by Fed up and soon homeless

[Fed up and soon homeless]

Just another thought. I am fairly confident my landlady said this was mentioned by the council officer in her meeting under caution, however I would need to double check with her to be absolutly certain.

 

He said something along the lines of...

 

'If we were not to pay HB for Mr X you would not make him homeless'.

 

As I said I will need to speak to her to get the exact wording but the above is the gist.

 

Thank you

[mikeymack2002]

Having re read the original post did you ever declare a change of circumstances, by letting the LA know you had a carer that stays over? But also since your friend has moved in the rules regarding living with a landlord come into play.

 

 

Also the way this is beginning to look could also be seen as LTAMC since it is a one bed place. The problems are greatly exacerbated because of this and that you have had some form of "relationship" with them as well. Do you now see why this particular thread is so complicated? There are exceptions to these rules under "Familial" rules, I.E. a family member being your carer they can stay over with no problem. because it is seen as a forbidden relationship.

 

 

What is also concerning is that your "Landlord" is living with you in a 1 bed property, which does not bode well for either of you. The way you may want to go is to apply for your own accommodation of suitable size with your LA. Your friend can still be your carer and stay over occasionally but not live with you permanently as is at the moment.

 

 

The other concern is if you are in receipt of other benefits and have some living with you that is not a dependant. If you look at this yet another way your LL is homeless, in as much she has no permanent home, (you are living in it) then maybe you should apply for your own place.

[Fed up and soon homeless]

As I said at the start it was never her intention to live here. She used to stay over once a week as we were friends. This I told the council at my initial HB interview as I wanted to be upfront and honest. Based on this they only paid minimal HB and no CT support. This then made it financialy impossible for me to pay the full asking rent and therefore for my LL to get the accomodation she wanted and thus forced her to stay here when she is not either working or elsewhere. If I had of received full HB and CT help none of this would have happened. We are basicaly both the product of circumstance.

[mikeymack2002]

Please do not get me wrong on what has been said, just suggesting avenues that are open for you to pursue. If your LL was to give you notice to quit due to her not having permanent accommodation and wanting your home back then the LA would need to offer you assistance and give you a home. Again there are special rules in place for people like you now find yourself in. Especially since you are in receipt of DLA.

[kk3852]

There are a lot of possibilities as to why your HB has been disallowed and it could probably be all of them.

 

A non-commercial tenancy is basically when the property has not (and is unlikely to) be offered for let on the open market, that the LL does not charge the normal rent, that a friend or family member is in the property. Was this property ever advertised for rent? You said that you did not pay a deposit which is usual in a commercial tenancy. Unless I have missed it, I can't figure out when you stopped receiving HB or whether or not the amount of HB received was the same amount of rent you were expected to pay. If there is any shortfall over and above HB they will look at whether or not this has been paid to your LL. If not, and if no steps have been taken to evict you it points to it not being a commercial tenancy

 

Added to that, the LL is living in the same property as you - therefore does not have another property where they pay housing costs - or do they?

 

And it is a one bedroomed flat leading to a suspicion of living together as a married couple