Loans2Go help - unable to pay anymore.

[jamesmp]

Hi

 

I was wondering if anyone could help.

 

 

Recently my money has taken a turn for the worse with more going out than coming in.

It's putting me and my partner under serious stress and difficulty and we just can't take anymore.

 

I recently took out a logbook loan from Loans2Go in Feb for £700, the total repayment amount they are charging is £3,220.00 over 36 months.

 

 

Well since then, things have gone down hill badly and it has left me unable to pay it anymore.

I haven't missed a payment yet, but it's due very soon and I physically just do not have it.

 

 

I recently had to move too to cut down my costs and they don't have my new address yet either.

Well anyhow, I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice?

 

The car is kept in a locked garage, which is guarded by a locked (very large) gate.

Are they allowed to break into my garage to take it?

Also, I checked my agreement and I can't find anywhere saying that I can't sign the car over.

They have the MOT cert and V5 (both replaceable).

 

 

I'm stuck here, I don't want to lose my car - it's nothing special it's just a cheap car

but if I lost it I wouldn't be able to take my son to school,

go to my psychiatrist appointments, nothing.

 

Is there anything I can do?

 

Kind regards

James

[fkofilee]

Right, did they give you a copy of the bill of sale?

[jamesmp]

Yes. I have it in front of me now!

[fkofilee]

Did you check if it is a legal one?

[jamesmp]

No. How would I go about doing that? They gave me the following paperwork:

 

Fixed-sum loan agreement regualted by the consumer credit act 1974

BOS information sheet

Bill of sale

Pre-contract credit information

 

I checked my cars HPI and it's showing the loan though

[fkofilee]

first check if your BOS has been correctly registered,you will need the vehicle reg

how to check:

.

email:QBEnforcement@hmcts .gsi.g ov.uk.[no spaces]

.

ring:020 7947 7772

.

write:

QB Enforcement Section,

Room E15-E17,

Royal Courts of Justice,

Strand, London, WC2A

...

.

ideally you need the BOS number

.

however

they can search by the Reg Number

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/rcj-rolls-building/queens-bench/enforcement

 

they cannot repo your vehicle without first sending you a default notice under s87cca 1974

 

with 14 clear days to remedy

 

You could also consider a time order if you are having repayment problems

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/06A%20EW%20Time%20order%20on%20an%20unsecured%20credit%20agreement/Default.aspx

 

If its showing on HPI... Well thats not a good sign

FYI ive called the Site Team to have a look at it.

[jamesmp]

I'll get on to that first thing in the morning. Thank you.

 

 

When I do a reg check with them hpi text check services it show's up.

 

 

One thing I will mention, the lady who gave me the loan didn't sign the BOS,

no signature or witness signature.

But she has put her name as the witness too.

Does this matter?

I read that it's not valid in this instance.

[fkofilee]

Woah!!! Thats massive... It has to be countersigned by someone who ISNT the person signing it.

Okay this could be interesting... However, Bill Of Sale... Dont they give you a copy and they take a copy? Wonder if their copy has been countersigned?

[jamesmp]

This is the exact words of the bottom of my BOS:

 

_____________MY SIGNATURE______ (Borrower)

Signed as a deed by the said MY NAME

 

in the presence of THE LADY WHO GAVE ME THE LOAN'S NAME

 

_________________________________________________

 

Witness signature:

Witness Occupation: CASHIER

Witness Address: Loans2Go BRANCH ADDRESS.

 

 

That it literally the bottom of my BOS. No witness signature, nothing. The lady who gave me the loan and done my paperwork is the lady who's name is as witness but no signature at all.

 

She did sign the Fixed Sum Loan agreement though. There isn't a spot for a witness signature on that though.

[fkofilee]

No but if the Bill Of Sale is void then it removes the car as collateral... And then the amount owing is technically "Unsecured" I believe (Dont quote me on it)

[jamesmp]

They do take a copy yes, but I was thinking, even if theirs wasn't, the fact that mine doesn't have one means mine was true of the day I got it. Theirs would have been altered after I signed.

 

No but if the Bill Of Sale is void then it removes the car as collateral... And then the amount owing is technically "Unsecured" I believe (Dont quote me on it)

 

I would have to agree but how on earth would I go about having the BOS voided lol.

 

If its showing on HPI... Well thats not a good sign

FYI ive called the Site Team to have a look at it.

 

Thank you, I really appreciate it.

[fkofilee]

Thats a toughie, and that i cant help you with...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?283362-Have-you-signed-a-Bill-of-Sale-Take-These-Steps-to-find-out-if-Your-Bill-of-Sale-is-Registered

[jamesmp]

Thats a toughie, and that i cant help you with...

 

Well I appreciate all your help so far, so thank you for that. The most important thing for me is if I can't pay, can they break into my gates and then my garage to take the car? Bear in mind they don't have my new address yet. In the meantime, I'll be doing what I can to get the BOS voided. How enforceable are these loans with or without a BOS?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?283362-Have-you-signed-a-Bill-of-Sale-Take-These-Steps-to-find-out-if-Your-Bill-of-Sale-is-Registered

 

Very interesting indeed!

[fkofilee]

Well you are then under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

If they cant take your car, then they WILL attempt a CCJ... Although how fair it is though for the APR% Rate they charge, I dunno ...

[jamesmp]

Well you are then under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

If they cant take your car, then they WILL attempt a CCJ... Although how fair it is though for the APR% Rate they charge, I dunno ...

 

I have a feeling this is void too. You see if the BOS is void, under the section SECURITY on the CCA, the security is my car. If they don't have this as security, the CCA should be void too?

[fkofilee]

I have a feeling this is void too. You see if the BOS is void, under the section SECURITY on the CCA, the security is my car. If they don't have this as security, the CCA should be void too?

 

Thats a tough one I cant answer. If you block out all of the information. Could you please post the BOS, and the CCA on here?

[jamesmp]

Thats a tough one I cant answer. If you block out all of the information. Could you please post the BOS, and the CCA on here?

 

Not a problem at all. Give me 5 and I'll do it now.

 

Okay, that was a lot easier lol.

[fkofilee]

Thank you muchlys

 

I have seen that Caro from the Site Team is looking at the thread, So hopefully we can give you the right information.

Caro; Apologies if I have gotten anything wrong on this, LBLs are not my forte...

[dx100uk]

go check that BOS is registered...

 

 

dx

[jamesmp]

Will do. I'll post back in the morning with the info!

[dx100uk]

if its not got a number

simply quote your reg number

[Peterbard]

If the BOS is not properly witnessed it will be unenforceable,

 

 

I would get one of the advice agencies in on this,

 

 

CAB are conducting a campaign at the moment I believe against these kinds of loans,

they may be able to provide a template letter for you to send to the creditor,

they will also record the complaint with the FCA if you ask.

 

The invalid security does not necessarily invalidate the agreement,

however, but as said they would have to issue a default notice and obtain a CCJ,

in this case they would not be able to take the car and would have to use other enforcement methods.

 

Can I ask what was the APR stated on the agreement, I cannot make it out.

[theoldrouge]

was the bos registered?

 

Do you have a problem with a Logbook Loan?

 

With Citizens advice estimating that over 60,000 of these loans were taken out in 2014 alone

an increasing number are causing severe difficulty and distress for borrowers.

 

In this guide we explain what a logbook loan is, and how they work. What you can do if you have a repayment problem,and what you can do if you have unknowingly bought a car with a logbook loan attached.

 

Three golden rules for Logbbok Loans

 

1)No matter how desperate you are to purchase a car, or raise cash, NEVER consider this type of Finance

These loans are designed purely for the benefit of the lenders. With APRs of 400+%, little consumer protection, and aggressive debt collection practices

they should be avoided at all costs.

 

2)When purchasing a used car from whatever source,private or trade, ALWAYS do a FULL GENUINE HPI CHECK

costing around £20, these come with a guarantee against any form of existing finance, including lbl's

 

3)If you have any problem with a Logbook Loan, your first step is ALWAYS to check that the Bill Of Sale has been registered with the High Court. You can do this here-

 

to check if registered

 

Contact Details

 

QB Enforcement Section

Room E15-17

Royal Courts of Justice

Strand

London

WC2A 2LL

DX 44450 Strand

 

Telephone: 020 7947 7772

Fax: 0870 324 0024

Email: QBEnforcement@hmcts.gsi.g ov.uk (No Spaces)

 

You may read on the internet that your BOS will be void if witnessed by an employee of your lbl lender

 

Since the OFT( as was) lost the attestation case on appeal by 2 to1 this is NOT the case

 

full details here http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup...method=boolean

 

Logbook loans are a form of credit dating back to the Victorian era, derived from the 1878/1882 Bills Of Sale Acts, with terms and conditions to match in many cases.

 

Problems are manyfold from extortionate charges by lenders for calling a customer, to repossessions where owners have been left at the side of a busy road, unable to get to work, and even sexual harassment via debt collection.

 

Poor practices abound, unsurprising when there is no incentive for lenders to ensure their customers understand the terms or can afford the repayments.

 

In fact the very nature of this form of finance could be seen to encourage bad behaviour – why carry out affordability checks if a single missed payments means you get to keep the money and takeaway the car?

 

How does it work?

 

When you take out a logbook loan you will be asked to hand over your vehicle’s logbook or vehicle registration document, which proves you are the registered keeper of the vehicle.

 

You’ll also have to sign a credit agreement and a form called a ‘bill of sale’. This means the lender now owns your vehicle on a temporary basis but you are still able to use it so long as you meet all loan repayments. These documents are recognised by law in England, Wales and Northern Ireland but are not used in Scotland.

 

The law only recognises a bill of sale if the lender registers it with the High Court. If it’s not registered, the lender must get a court’s approval to repossess your vehicle. You should check if the bill of sale is registered.

 

What you should do if you have a repayment problem

 

1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above

 

2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974

allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)

 

You should , if your lender will not negotiate a reduced payment, straight away on receipt of the default notice look to take out a time order. This gains you the protection of the court, which can look into the overall loan--

 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Default.aspx

 

What you can do if you have purchased a car with an existing logbook loan

 

If you receive a letter threatening to repossess the car or an enforcement officer turns up at your home to take it, you may not be able to stop them.

 

 

 

• ask to see proof of their identity and their authorisation to take the car
  
• ask to see the bill of sale document – they have to show you this if you ask for it
  
• if you feel threatened by how an enforcement officer is behaving, call the police
  
• ask for written confirmation of what has been taken
  
• get the contact details for the logbook loan company.
  

If the lender has taken your car, you can try to get it back and reclaim your money from the seller. However, this can be a costly and time-consuming process and is not guaranteed to succeed.

 

If you want to get the car back, you could pay off the outstanding loan and then take the person who sold you the car to court, to try to get your money back.

 

If you just want to get your money back, you can take the person who sold you the car to court.

 

Always get independent advice before you decide to take someone to court.

 

Some lenders are members of the consumer credit Trade Association (CCTA), which has a code of practice covering logbook loans. The code of practice says the lender must register the logbook loan on a register, so it will show up when you carry out a history check on the car. It also says they must obey certain rules when they repossess a car.

 

If you are unhappy with the way a logbook loan lender or its enforcement officers have behaved, find out whether they are a member. If so, you can complain directly to the CCTA. However this code is regularly ignored

 

http://www.ccta.co.uk/content/our-code.aspx

 

Finally both the Financial Conduct Authority and the Law Commission are investigating Logbook Lending

and the associated legislation, full details here--

 

http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-typ.../logbook-loans

 

http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/...ls-of-sale.htm

[Peterbard]

Thanks for that, i new that the CAB was into this in a big way, it seems my information regarding witnessing is out of date, I presume the other requirements are still in force though.

 

These loans really should be outlawed, unfortunately with the PDL lenders being squeezed by the FCA many are turning to this very profitable practice.

 

The section 87 notice is the only protection the act offers, the section 90-101 do not apply.

[theoldrouge]

yes totally agree, all designed to circumvent the protections which hire purchase affords