Hmrc mistake??

[denysemarst1]

Hi Everyone,

 

Just to say I love this site, it packed with really helpful people, who have helped me sort out a situation.

 

I hoped I would find a forum dealing with HMRC and luckily I have, this time it is not about me, HMRC have been chasing my partner for years now, stating he has not filled in self assessment forms since 2004! They will not have it that none have been sent, which isn't surprising really as he is not a company director he is a shareholder and as far as we know he doesn't have to fill in self assessment forms. Just wondered if we are right?

 

Eventually HMRC made such a fuss, basically sending letters from all over the country, visits to the house and finally threatening to make him bankrupt, we have sent letters which have been ignored, finally we have asked our accountant to sort it out but I am ashamed to say we did pay them what they wanted because we hope when it gets sorted out they will refund this. They are truly a very incompetent organisation who have chased him relentlessly, can we make a complaint about this? If so to who?

 

Thanks to anyone who has any information on what we can do, we have paid these people about £18,000!!

[BazzaS]

Hi Everyone,

 

Just to say I love this site, it packed with really helpful people, who have helped me sort out a situation.

 

I hoped I would find a forum dealing with HMRC and luckily I have, this time it is not about me, HMRC have been chasing my partner for years now, stating he has not filled in self assessment forms since 2004! They will not have it that none have been sent, which isn't surprising really as he is not a company director he is a shareholder and as far as we know he doesn't have to fill in self assessment forms. Just wondered if we are right?

 

Eventually HMRC made such a fuss, basically sending letters from all over the country, visits to the house and finally threatening to make him bankrupt, we have sent letters which have been ignored, finally we have asked our accountant to sort it out but I am ashamed to say we did pay them what they wanted because we hope when it gets sorted out they will refund this. They are truly a very incompetent organisation who have chased him relentlessly, can we make a complaint about this? If so to who?

 

Thanks to anyone who has any information on what we can do, we have paid these people about £18,000!!

 

If he is a shareholder : he may have received dividends, which have to be declared as income. If he is a higher / additional rate tax payer there may be tax due on dividends ..... Or if there are other reasons why HMRC believe he needs to complete a return

https://www.gov.uk/check-if-you-need-a-tax-return

 

Thus HMRC can ask for self-assessment returns, even if those returns then show no dividends / additional income.

 

So, for "as far as we know he doesn't have to fill in self assessment forms. Just wondered if we are right?", I can't agree you are right. If they've asked for the forms he is obliged to return them, even if you then confirm in them that he received no additional income (dividend or salary, from that company), unless he has discussed with HMRC that he believes he doesn't have to complete a return AND they have agreed (to which I'd say "& you have that in writing or recorded"!)

 

Looking at your most recent statement from HMRC (or, if now a zero balance the last statement that itemises what HMRC believes is owed), are (m)any of the entries

"SA Determination", or " Penalty for Late Return"?

 

If so, look at the thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?440393-HMRC-harassment&p=4683974#post4683974

 

If there were determinations, depending on if you appealed them within HMRC's appeals timescales, they may have become fixed and legally binding.

 

"finally we have asked our accountant to sort it out" : if you have now received threats of distraint and / or bankruptcy and "HMRC have been chasing my partner for years now", have you previously raised this with your accountant?

What had your accountant said about:

a) SA returns and

b) any monies HMRC believe is due?

[denysemarst1]

Hi,

 

Thank you for your reply, our accountant has spoken to me today and he believes that my partner should not be on self assessment, they have now been given authority to speak on behalf of my partner and are awaiting some information from HMRC to complete it. To answer your question on dividends, he does have small dividends, so maybe he will have to let them know in one form or another, but the accountant does not know why they have been chasing him for the period of time they are saying, because for two years of this there was no income from the business at all. Apparently they have agreed that they only want forms from 2010 now, I think we will just continue to let the accountant sort this out now, it's probably going to cost us a fortune (as they are not an inexpensive resource) but as we know nothing about this sort of this, it's probably best to leave it to the experts.

 

But thank you anyway for taking the time to reply.

[caro]

Without being notified, Hmrc are unlikely to know that there's been no income, and I really can't see why the accountant thinks SA is inappropriate but as the expert, you're probably best to let him handle it as you've said.

[BazzaS]

Hi,

 

Thank you for your reply, our accountant has spoken to me today and he believes that my partner should not be on self assessment, they have now been given authority to speak on behalf of my partner and are awaiting some information from HMRC to complete it. To answer your question on dividends, he does have small dividends, so maybe he will have to let them know in one form or another, but the accountant does not know why they have been chasing him for the period of time they are saying, because for two years of this there was no income from the business at all. Apparently they have agreed that they only want forms from 2010 now, I think we will just continue to let the accountant sort this out now, it's probably going to cost us a fortune (as they are not an inexpensive resource) but as we know nothing about this sort of this, it's probably best to leave it to the experts.

 

But thank you anyway for taking the time to reply.

 

You are of course free to ask what you wish, and take any advice in reply or not.

 

However, what is the point in asking if less than 12 hours later you say (in effect) "no point in replying, we are leaving it to the accountant"?

 

Mind you, it allows you to avoid having to answer the trickier questions such as "are these determinations" and "if it's been going on for years and they are threatening bankruptcy, and you already have an accountant : why hasn't the accountant already sorted this"?

 

Given the accountant had only just been given the agency by you to discuss this with HMRC : are they only recently involved? Were they dealing with the business only previously?

 

The accountant who deals with my business has agreed to deal with my SA returns : for which they charge me only an extra £75 / year! (As they have almost all of the details already from the work they do for the company accounting ....)

[denysemarst1]

Bazza,

 

My point was to try and establish if there was a difference between being a director and a shareholder in terms of self assessment procedure, and I admit , to also ascertain if the accountant was correct in his advice, which you expertly answered, and I believe I did express my thanks for that, you are however implying that I said albeit in effect 'no point in replying, we are leaving it to the accountant' which is not the case whatsoever, and I must say that presumptions should not be made, unless of course the words are actually said.

 

I could see from your response that we were indeed probably following the right course of action anyway, was there anymore to say or ask? I do however apologise if I have given what seems to be an ungrateful response, this most certainly was not my intention.