PCN - Salford City Council - Parked in Restricted Street

[holmes321]

Hi,

 

I have been issued a PCN for parking on a street round the corner from my home on Thursday while I went to pick up my lunch. (See photos below).

 

The place I am parked previously used to have a yellow line all the way across the gate, now there are terminations to the single yellow either side of the gate. There is no sign on the gate saying parking is not allowed there. On what grounds have I been issued the PCN? How, as a motorist, am I to recognise this as a place where parking is not allowed? I assume it is to do with the dropped kerb perhaps?

 

I have emailed the council asking and got the statement:

 

"Yellow lines are enforceable from the centre of the carriageway to the back of the footway/start of the private land, any pavement, grass verses etc being classed as part of the public highway".

 

I don't understand how this statement relates to where I was parked.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

 

 

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[Jamberson]

I agree with you. If parking were supposed to be restricted in front of the gate, then the yellow line would not have a break in it.

 

Please could you let us have the exact location, so we can check the road layout?

 

Also, could you confirm the contravention code stated on the PCN?

[Michael Browne]

You are parked on a crossover, which allows access to the gates across the pavement, but it is still part of the pavement and therefore part of the public highway.

[Jamberson]

But if he's been done for the yellow line, it's not contiunous. It terminates either end of the car.

[holmes321]

Thanks for the replies.

 

@Jamberson: The location is on Lissadel Street, Salford on the section that is south of Frederick Road. Google Maps 53.491251, -2.275585.

 

The contravention code is 01, Parked in a Restricted Street during Prescribed Hours.

 

 

@Michael Browne, this is what I thought may be the case, though I thought there would still need to be a single yellow across the gate. This website (parkingfinesandlines.com/ContraventionZone/Code27.aspx) states that a yellow line does not need to be present in order for this to be enforced, which I had not previously been aware of (and seems a bit rubbish to me)...

 

 

However, it does also state that "An observation of at least 5 minutes should normally be given before enforcement action is taken". My vehicle was only observed from 12:32 to 12:34.

[Michael Browne]

Code 27 is irrelevant, a) it's not the alleged contravention, b) footway parking is not enforced in Salford.

 

Observation times vary from council to council. Primarily they are to ascertain whether there are possible exemptions which would mean a contravention has not occurred ie boarding/alighting, loading/unloading. It's unlikely that where you parked any exemptions would be apparent.

[Jamberson]

Thanks for the replies.

 

@Jamberson: The location is on Lissadel Street, Salford on the section that is south of Frederick Road. Google Maps 53.491251, -2.275585.

 

The contravention code is 01, Parked in a Restricted Street during Prescribed Hours.

 

 

@Michael Browne, this is what I thought may be the case, though I thought there would still need to be a single yellow across the gate. This website (parkingfinesandlines.com/ContraventionZone/Code27.aspx) states that a yellow line does not need to be present in order for this to be enforced, which I had not previously been aware of (and seems a bit rubbish to me)...

 

 

However, it does also state that "An observation of at least 5 minutes should normally be given before enforcement action is taken". My vehicle was only observed from 12:32 to 12:34.

 

The road layout looks exactly as I would have imagined - a straight road, with the 'bay' you were in appearing to be a turning at right angles, but in effect forming a sort of lay-by. The turning, however, is clearly not a road and so the yellow lines can only apply to the main carriageway. You are in a definite gap in the yellow line - I don't see how they can uphold it.

 

That's what you were ticketed for - 01, restricted street, meaning yellow lines. I think if you fight this, you will win.

 

I also beg to differ with Michael on the observation time issue. I think the exemption universal, and every yellow line allows for unloading - and so although they can ticket you after 2 minutes, it would probably breach normal protocol of giving a 5 minute observation. Anyway, it's not important, as you weren't on the yellow line anyway.

[green_and_mean]

You are still clearly parked on not one but two yellow lines! If you stand on the kerb and look at your car is there or is there not a yellow line between you and the car?

[Jamberson]

That's not the test of whether you are on a yellow line. You could be half a mile away and have a yellow line between you (the observer) and the car, depending on the shape of the kerb. It's not important.

 

The issue is whether the car is on a length of road governed by the yellow line. The line governs the area up to the centre of the carriageway, so if you project an imaginary line from the yellow line out to the middle of the road, then it would have to pass through the car for you to be in contravention. That would only be the case here if the centre of the road was a T-shape, but since there's only one road, then this is in effect a layby.

[green_and_mean]

That's not the test of whether you are on a yellow line. You could be half a mile away and have a yellow line between you (the observer) and the car, depending on the shape of the kerb. It's not important.

 

The issue is whether the car is on a length of road governed by the yellow line. The line governs the area up to the centre of the carriageway, so if you project an imaginary line from the yellow line out to the middle of the road, then it would have to pass through the car for you to be in contravention. That would only be the case here if the centre of the road was a T-shape, but since there's only one road, then this is in effect a layby.

 

 

What area do the yellow lines in front and behind car restrict then? The centre of the carriageway would be a line drawn through the centre of the car so its on both lines front and rear.

[Jamberson]

They just restrict the length of kerb, as they would if it were a straight kerb, parallel to the fence. The only road, and the only centre of the road, is parallel to the fence.

 

Imagine if one of the yellow lines were not there. Where would the restriction end? At the termination point of the remaining line, or half way along the gate? I say the former, and if it were me, I'd argue it at adjudication.

[Guest]

also, if the yellow line is deemed to apply there, shldn't there be an applicable sign accordingly re the parking restrictions. is there a sign nearby there holmes?

eg p8 here http://www.which.co.uk/documents/pdf/parking-guide-296086.pdf

 

also, there appears to be no end markings on the line. whether that wld be applicable or not?

[Jamberson]

I disagree - I think there are end markings on the line, although it's not normally an issue. Nevertheless, the apparent existence of T-bars on the lines merely emphasises the idea that they terminate before they reach where the car was.

 

When you get a PCN it's not actually for being on the lines, or whatever - it's for contravening a traffic order. You could ask the council for a copy of the traffic order for that street and see what it says. It might deliberately leave this entrance out from the no waiting restriction, in which case you're home and dry - but if it doesn't, the line still needs to communicate the fact that you can't park there, and I think it's not adequate in that respect.

[holmes321]

@Ford There are correct restricted zone signs in place for the yellow lines, one can be seen bent over behind my car in the first picture. And also there are end markings, though they're scruffy.

 

@Jamberson Thanks for your advice, I think I'll email the LA stating that the only carriageway is Lissadel Street, and therefore the terminated yellow lines indicate a break in parking on Lissadel Street, and subsequently I am not parked in a restricted area. This, to me, seems a fair and logical point of view.

[Jamberson]

It does seem fair, but don't just email them with a comment. Follow the proper appeals process and write a full appeal, with images if possible, and spell out your argument in detail.

 

It's possible they won't consider a fresh appeal at this stage, since they have already corresponded with you once, but if that's the case, you'll need to wait for a Notice to Owner from them, and then re-submit your appeal at that point.

 

Feel free to post your appeal on here before you send it.

[Guest]

@Ford There are correct restricted zone signs in place for the yellow lines, one can be seen bent over behind my car in the first picture. And also there are end markings, though they're scruffy.

 

.

 

 

i see the sign now and the poss 'scruffy' end markings.

but, have seen a few markings like that around ie single/double yellow line going round the pavement with an end marking then gap re a gate/drive etc. unless they've all got it wrong, cld be difficult to see how parking wld be allowed in such circs when restricted by the sign or whatever is applicable. ie as per Michael and Green?

[Jamberson]

The sign just tells you the hours the yellow line is in force. It has no bearing on the issue of whether the car is on the yellow line or not.

[Guest]

The sign just tells you the hours the yellow line is in force. It has no bearing on the issue of whether the car is on the yellow line or not.

 

the point there is, if the yellow line applies, as michael and green say, then any parking is as per the signs restrictions?

[Jamberson]

Yes, but that's a big 'if'. As I see it, the only road is Lissadel Street, so the yellow line must govern Lissadale Street. The car is not between the centre of the carriageway and the fence, where the yellow line extends. He's past the yellow line, and there's nothing bewteen the centre of Lissadel Street and the fence where he parked. No yellow line.

 

Even if you disagree, you will surely concede that it's not clear either way; that is quite possibly enough in itself to get the PCN overturned. The road markings have to be clear and understandable.