Council Parking Ticket - missed appeal time - help!!

[Saleem Nazma]

Ofcouse will keep you posted, just waiting for my husband to return home and then do this.

[Pocket Nines]

This needs moving to the bailiff section pronto!

 

If she gets any more advice to write again to the Council and flag up her predicament I'm sure Tom Tubby will be the the first to tell you that bailiff will be round before you've got back from the post box!!

 

that said, I agree with jamberson's sentiments; the Council should be helpful but won't be.

 

SALEEM.

How do you know this is with bailiffs? You said you had an Order for Recovery - which includes form TE9 (only) and you should have completed that when in time. What happened with that?

[Saleem Nazma]

Ofcouse will keep you posted, just waiting for my husband to return home and then do this.

 

One more quick question, on the te9 from the options I'm not sure which to best tick,

 

1. I did not recieve the notice to owner/ penalty charge notice

 

2. I made representation about the penalty charge to the enforcing authority concerned within 28 days of the service of the notice to owner but did not recieve a rejection

[Pocket Nines]

Ok sorry, I posted the last without reading later posts.

 

We don't have dates or an explanation of what kind of "appeal" you made, or what documents yopu found had been received when you returned.

See later posts but if you do proceed with TE7 and TE9 despite this lack of clarity, then --

 

What happens next? ----

 

the Council are likely to routinely oppose your application. then you will have the chance for a judge to decide at your local County Court - but this now costs £155 I'm told (normally recoverable if the Judge agrees).

Research N244 -- the next stage.

 

But as I said -- more detailed, up to date advice in the bailiff section of the forum.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Pocket Nines
Realised insufficient info to comment.

[Pocket Nines]

One more quick question, on the te9 from the options I'm not sure which to best tick,

 

1. I did not recieve the notice to owner/ penalty charge notice

 

2. I made representation about the penalty charge to the enforcing authority concerned within 28 days of the service of the notice to owner but did not recieve a rejection

 

We don't have sufficient info to advise correctly. See later post.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Pocket Nines
Realised insufficient info

[Pocket Nines]

Also, if you live in Newham, you should contact your local Councillor.

 

they can't directly interfere but they should be interested in situations where vulnerable people are not being treated appropriately by the Council.

Sadly, Newham are very poor at exercising any kind of discretion in such cases -- so Councillors will be interested.

[Jamberson]

You can tick box 1 or 2 - it's not that important. I said earlier to tick NTO not received, but they will pay very little attention to that, and focus almost totally on what you say on the form/letter.

 

It's not going to be an automatic refusal. But if the do refuse it, the N244 process is available and costs about £80, which you can claim back. But let's not worry about that yet. There is a good chance this will succeed, and you won't need an N244.

[Jamberson]

Please will you not be so alarmist, and stop using multiple question marks, etc. Just calm down a bit. You will worry the OP needlessly, and risk delaying her application. Yes, I believe it is technically a criminal offence to tick the wrong box, as it would constitute a false statement, but nobody has ever been in trouble for ticking the wrong box on a TE9 and nor will they. Councils barely even look at them anyway - the boxes serve very little purpose. It is the written explanation which matters, and that is 100% truthful.

 

The finer details as given here are slightly sketchy, but it really isn't important. In post 23 the OP said no NTO was received. She can tick that box, or the other one - it doesn't matter. She is making a witness statement, and it will be considered.

 

I've checked the N244 fee, and yes it has just gone up to £155 (yes, I checked - not just repeated what someone told me). We're not at that stage yet, so it's not an issue. The OP can claim costs back anyway if it comes to it, so again it's just a needless worry to plant in her head.

 

If the Witness Statement is unsuccessful, then yes she should move to the bailiff forum for more advice. At the moment all we can do is wait and see what the council do next. These applications do succeed, so let's just wait for now.

[Jamberson]

I think we should assume good faith, and take as truthful what people write on here, when they ask for help. I have no reason at all to doubt the sincerity of this person.

 

In her first post she stated "I sent this [information] back in a matter of 6 days, after this I did not hear back from them as to a reply for appeal, rather they send an order for recovery".

 

I agree this is not a comprehensive account of all the paperwork which was exchanged, but in post 23 above, she says clearly " I did not receive the notice to owner".

 

So, I think she can file the forms on the grounds are that no NTO was received. She could also file them on the grounds that she did not get a reply to her appeal, but your statement that I am advising her to act unlawfully is based on your own assumptions, not least that her husband did get an NTO and then made a representation, which is by no means clear.

 

Anyway, it doesn't matter which box is ticked. So far as the judge in an N244 is concerned (and it is not certain it will come to that), they view these cases as fairly low on the scale, and rarely go over things too closely. If it comes to it, and the judge goes over the details and decides she did get an NTO, then he will simply ignore the ticked box. There will never be any consequences if he thinks the wrong box was ticked, so it's over the top to talk about it as a criminal offence, even though technically it would be if it were a lie.

 

It's more important that the forms are filed promptly, than which tick box way used.

[Pocket Nines]

I have to stand corrected and apologise, for the simple reason I missed this >>

but in post 23 above, she says clearly " I did not receive the notice to owner".

 

So, I think she can file the forms on the grounds are that no NTO was received.

She can indeed and yes, OP statements should be taken in good faith; I simply didn't see that statement made.

i will edit previous posts appropriately so as not to confuse or "alarm" the OP.

 

There's still a small problem that OP isn't the person who should have 'received' but overall she can work out how to explain to a judge that she deals with her husband's affairs. As you've said earlier, power of attorney would really be necessary. i wonder if there have been any major defining legal cases on the subject of acting for someone with literacy difficulties?

 

I would still like to see a full timescale of events from the OP, not least because Newham frequently cock - up.

 

I am also still concerned at the letter to the Council. Only because a well known bailiff expert has told me that Councils tend to take advantage when people disclose vulnerability and worry.

It is, however, a good idea to convey the info to Newham because they are currently notorious at failing to apply discretion and deal with various vulnerable members of the community appropriately. Their inevitable failure might be useful later. It may be better to engage the help of a Councillor to forward such a message.

A Councillor can't influence the outcome but they do have the effect of keeping the enforcement team in check while asking for the matter to be looked at.

That has the effect of getting the info across with the added benefit the enforcement team are under Councillor scrutiny.

 

I still, however, disagree that it doesn't matter which box is ticked on the TE9; Your first advice was correct as I've said.

Apart from making a false or uncertain Statement being unlawful, it will confuse the case later if inaccurate.

Whilst they shouldn't, any Council objection will address the claim on the TE9, hence the need for accuracy.

[Jamberson]

You know more about Newham than me. When I worked for my council, anything to do with equalities was treated extremely carefully by the council. I've no doubt it varies from place to place. I worked in Brighton, and if this case had come our way, it would probably have been accepted. It's just so hard to know how it will pan out.

 

I do understand your point about the tick box. I don't entirely disagree with you either. The problem as I see it is, if we bat this back and forth to try to determine which box is correct, a day or two might elapse during which time bailiffs might action the case, and I really don't think it will affect the outcome. I gather the forms have been sent anyway, now.

[Pocket Nines]

You know more about Newham than me. When I worked for my council, anything to do with equalities was treated extremely carefully by the council. I've no doubt it varies from place to place. I worked in Brighton, and if this case had come our way, it would probably have been accepted. It's just so hard to know how it will pan out.

 

I do understand your point about the tick box. I don't entirely disagree with you either. The problem as I see it is, if we bat this back and forth to try to determine which box is correct, a day or two might elapse during which time bailiffs might action the case, and I really don't think it will affect the outcome. I gather the forms have been sent anyway, now.

 

I'm cool; I acknowledged that 'did not receive NtO' is the closest to correct.

 

Yes i do know Newham unfortunately and it is quite shocking. B&H may well have been better and your mention of 'equalities' is bang on. I think you might recognise though, that what Councils purport to do and actually do, are two different things. Having also worked in another in the past I recall the attitude was (although never openly stated) well we have an appropriate 'policy' on 'that' so all is well; What we actually do therefore doesn't matter.

 

It's also the case, as i'm sure you've noticed, that cuts have affected Council attitudes to enforcement and they quite blatantly go hell for leather to get money through the enforcement route to the detriment of all other concerns.

[Saleem Nazma]

I'm cool; I acknowledged that 'did not receive NtO' is the closest to correct.

 

Yes i do know Newham unfortunately and it is quite shocking. B&H may well have been better and your mention of 'equalities' is bang on. I think you might recognise though, that what Councils purport to do and actually do, are two different things. Having also worked in another in the past I recall the attitude was (although never openly stated) well we have an appropriate 'policy' on 'that' so all is well; What we actually do therefore doesn't matter.

 

It's also the case, as i'm sure you've noticed, that cuts have affected Council attitudes to enforcement and they quite blatantly go hell for leather to get money through the enforcement route to the detriment of all other concerns.

 

I'd like to mention when we got the local goverment ombudsman involved although they gave us some incorrect information as in to file in the pe2 form, they did contact the newham council for an explanation from the council side, they stated that if we had gone for the option that an appeal was made/ representation and did not recieve rejection if we submitted this in time the council would of revoked te pcn, so the te7 this is, but as I mentioned they only give a set time to do this in and I had missed it due to my breament.

[Saleem Nazma]

Hence why now I had to do the out of time, te9 and I have sent my mothers death certificate as to why it was delayed, hopefully they should understand, at the end of the day it was my mother, and losing the person who brings you into this world is a devastation right. I just hope they look at it sympatheticly as I do have proof end of the day. But I do wish the gp could do more I requested a referral for my husband few months back so he can get help in the learning difficulty side of it still no news. I will be onto them again. It's always one thing after the other, lol.

[Jamberson]

Councils will generally accapt a Witness Statement in time. It's routine, whichever box is ticked. It's only if they are out of time that things become more complicated, as councils can refuse them. But as you say, you've sent them the evidence - just need to see what the response is now.

[Saleem Nazma]

The Northampton tec refused it as they say file a n244 or back to bailiffs

They say they don't consider a hearing to be appropriate and that it should be without a hearing in my local court ect

[Jamberson]

You need to decide on what to do next. I would advise that you post a summary of what's happened on the bailiff section of this site, here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...nt-Officers%29

 

Someone on there will be able to advise on how to deal with this.