How can First direct lose an account in credit??

[sharburrys]

Dear All

 

I would like to ask your help please as I believe that my gf is in a bit difficult situation

 

My GF opened a First Direct Accounts in 1998

one of which is a kind of saving account at the time and

the other one is a current account...

Both accounts have £250 authorised overdraft limit.

 

She had a monthly SO from the current account to the savings..

. her accounts are up and down normally up until

 

she sold her business in 2004 and there was a big lump sum money credited in her account 2005,

eventually setting up her new business etc

 

her finance became average again but

 

all of as sudden First direct started to chase her in 2012 and 2013 for the saving account

as somehow it became negative £246...

 

It has been a nightmare,

calls on top of calls messages left in her answer phone and letters etc...

 

Finally I had to take over the case and asked them where did this negative balance come from??

 

They could not chase it back and they "discreetly" closed the account

and "GOODWILL GESTURE" they credited her account.

 

Having a great relationship with HSBC personally (taking them to the court twice and winning them)

I asked her to put an SAR in may 2013 and SAR came back with...

 

"All the documents are enclosed however I am sorry to let you know that I was unable

to find the records of your saving account for the date between 2004 and 2005

as well as some of your credit card statements"

 

My GF is immaculate with her paperwork and checked whole her paperwork as well as what FD sent...

They have never sent her the paperwork for that account and she had appx £400-£500 in her account

at the time with the SO from her current account and somehow in few months time account became

-£246 and in the transcript of the account its states dormant account last transaction from 2002

 

We spoke to FD and no satisfactory response came.. recorded the calls etc..

 

In the meanwhile she has had an HSBC account which was opened in 2011

and she was using that account for personal expenditures like petrol pocket money etc.

- Basic account with no agreed overdraft limit and NO DD or SO attached to the account.

 

Due to her sons illness she did not look after her account and she went overdrawn in few occasions again in 2013,

but they are not £10-£20 overdraft they are £300 - £400 overdrawn

and the transactions are not single transactions they are set of 5-6 transactions

of POS transactions (point of sale) which is a debit card transactions?

 

We wrote HSBC that my GF has not agreed overdraft limit

and none of the transactions are DD nor SO how come HSBC allowed her to go overdrawn

 

their standard letter came with "as a responsible lender from time to time we allow

our customers informal overdraft facility"

 

When I asked them what is the informal overdraft limit?

it is not £10,£20 £50 we are talking about £400??

which makes a normal overdraft?

and they charged every month £150 "fair fees policy" thank you very much...

 

So based on unfair treatment I took HSBC to the court with 2 separate action..

 

1- HSBC for her HSBC bank account of xxxxx

2- HSBC (trading as First Direct) - exactly like that - for her First Direct Account of yyyyy

 

so the fees have been paid separately and questionnaires have been submitted separately...

 

Now my question is we received a letter from the DJ stating that all the cases of A1X.... and A1Y... are suitable for SCT and have been given ONE hearing of 90mins in July 2014 and very kindly can you please pay single fee of £325??

 

1- why are the cases all combined in 1 hearing?

2- Are they joking for £325 charge which she already paid £210 and £100 while submitting the case??

 

Can anyone please recommend me what to do? I am worried if it goes to the court together because of the limit it may turn to Fast Track??

 

I look forward to your advise

 

Regards

[citizenB]

Hi sharburry, I see you worked out how to start your new thread

 

Just having a read.

[citizenB]

Ok..

 

Your questions are.. why have they put both accounts/claims to the same hearing. They can do this if they are being held at the same court and are for a similar issue.

 

As for the court fee, I am not certain why it is so much. Can you tell me the what the amount of the claim is now it has been combined ?

[citizenB]

Aha.. I missed the fees you have already paid.

 

You have already paid for the claim submission fee - you now have to pay for the next stage - the hearing stage.

[citizenB]

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees

 

The Court fees increased just recently - I have attached the list - if you scroll down under the fee list, you will see that there is an extra fee to pay if there is a hearing.

[citizenB]

It would appear you have used Money Claim online and your fees are as follows.

 

£3,000.01 to £5,000 - £100 - it would have been £120 had you filed at court

£5,000.01 to £15,000 - £210 - it would have been £245.00 had you filed at court

 

One claim appears to be under £5,000 and the other over £5,000 but under £15,000

 

Small claim limit now is £10,000 but Judges have discretion to hear claims in a different level of court if the believe this is correct. Your court has confirmed that it is suitable for SCT with the combined claim.

[citizenB]

It would appear that Court Fees will not increase until 22nd April so it looks like you have been charged the correct fees.. the new fees will probably be a bit higher.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?421493-Court-fees-increase-from-22nd-April-2014

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/874/made

 

Looks like the new fees would have been for issuing the claim.

 

£185 and £410.

Edited April 12, 2014 by citizenB

[sharburrys]

Thanks Citizen

 

You are great once again you are here to help me )

 

Great news.. Do you think that she has been treated unfairly?? can a bank lose the track of an account and chase you for the debt and discreetly close it??

 

And informal overdraft limit? does it work with the "fair fees policy"?? £400 is a bigger amount than HSBC min authorised overdraft limit of £250??

 

Last question is the hearing fee? £325 does it sound right for a small claims tracking? or is it going towards fast track??

 

Regards

[citizenB]

 

Last question is the hearing fee? £325 does it sound right for a small claims tracking? or is it going towards fast track??

 

This would appear to be the top end of Small Claims track for the hearing fee. The Court has confirmed to you that this is suitable for SCT, so I should not be concerned about it going to Fast Track.

 

I suspect the bank has indeed treated you unfairly in "losing" your account - Did you make a Formal complaint to their head office in the first instance ? Was it at this point that they closed the account ?

 

If the account you had was one where no overdraft is permitted then it could be assumed that they only reason they did allow it to get into that state was because they could add charges.

 

Especially if they offer an account which, for a small monthly fee, an overdraft is arranged ?

[sharburrys]

Hi Citizen

 

You are right, the funny thing is same company HSBC in 2 different format;

 

Same year and the same person

 

HSBC is allowing my gf to go overdrawn £400 which she never agreed an overdraft facility at all no signature etc...

Because they can see her regular income so the only way to make money was allowing her to go overdrawn, my frustration is all the transactions are pos(point of sale) which is debit card transaction so they could have easily stopped the transaction so she would have known that she does not have money...

On the other hand FD which is using HSBC risk system; has stopped my GF Credit Card as a responsible lender even though she was paying her card regularly even though she has still available limit with no further notice etc...

 

So it is the same person, it is in the same year and it is the same bank and the system; so how can one department allows her to use more funds and the other department saying nooo we are a responsible lender and she is a high risk and we are stopping her credit card facilities...

 

Is this legal...

 

I have another question for you if you dont mind...

 

Can a bank stop reduce your limit without giving any further notice? even though you have never failed to pay and you regularly pay every month the full amount?? They cut down from £2,250 to £950? are they allowed to do a credit check in your name without your consent?

 

Regards

[rdm2006]

Fair Fees policy - what a Joke.

 

They can charge you for your mistakes but try turning that around and charging them for their mistakes.

 

Under UTCCR it is unfair - Schedule 2 Item D

permitting the seller or supplier to retain sums paid by the consumer where the latter decides not to conclude or perform the contract, without providing for the consumer to receive compensation of an equivalent amount from the seller or supplier where the latter is the party cancelling the contract.

 

Under EC Directive 93/13 (and pannon and gaffori/ oceanic groupo) the court has a duty to take possible unfair terms to one side and test them for fairness of its own actions (even if you dont ask it to) and at no risk of cost to you.

 

will the court do it - i doubt it.