Black Horse PPI

[andys5]

Hi Guys,

I have been reading these forums for some time,

however cannot find a thread with a similar problem a

nd was wondering if someone could offer some advice.

 

I took out a loan with Black Horse, but had a medical condition,

which while wasn't bad at the time, it could get worse over the course of the agreement.

 

The agent on the phone advised me to take out PPI,

and assured me that because I had told him about the exsisting condition it would be covered.

 

Well, the worst happened, I became ill and couldn't work and Black Horse said they didn't cover pre-exsisting conditions!

 

I've been arguing with Black Horse for coming up on 6 years now regarding this, and I just want it to go away.

 

They have offered to refund the PPI plus 8% statutory interest, but I'm not happy with this,

as the outstanding balance is around £4700 (even with the refund),

 

however I have calculated that if all interest and charges were refunded, I'd owe them around £850.

 

I have no issue paying this, and have told them I can do that immediately if they accept it.

 

I know I have had the use of their money, and want to do the right thing by paying it back,

but their agent bare faced lied when I took out the loan, so I don't see why they should be able to do

whatever they want and hold me to my end of the agreement, when they aren't sticking to theirs!

 

I have advised them that I believe the agent misrepresented the loan,

and I just want both parties (myself and Black Horse) to be in the position we would have been in had the loan not been taken out.

 

All they do, is write back telling me that if I want an up to date balance,

I should write to Hillesden Securities, which is another issue.

 

Black Horse KNOW that this account has been in dispute,

so I am completely perplexed as to why it's been passed to a DCA!

 

Do you think I've got a leg to stand on here,

or should I just cave in and pay the £4700

(I don't have it to hand, I'd need to set up a payment plan,

I could however pay them the £850 I believe I owe.)

 

Just for other information, the loan was taken out in 2004, so none of the regulators are interested in helping, as apparently Black Horse weren't a member back then.

 

Any advice anyone?

 

Many thanks.

[dx100uk]

i'll help later

 

dx

[andys5]

That would be great!

Just a bit further information.

 

I have already sent Black Horse a SAR,

 

and they sent me a copy of my credit agreement (which I had anyway).

 

The PPI policy appears to be a separate loan amount on the same agreement.

 

The Loan shows as "The first schedule" on the left hand side of the agreement,

and the PPI shows as "The second schedule" on the right hand side.

 

Don't know if that information helps any.

 

I look forward to your reply!

[dx100uk]

so what was the monthly PPI PCM

 

and is this sold to a DCA

 

or just collecting.

 

and when was your last payment.

 

dx

[andys5]

The PPI is detailed as follows:

 

"The cash price of the PPI: £1178.17

 

Interest Rate Per Month 0.828 / APR 10.4%

 

Monthly Repayment: £24.99

 

Estimated monthly repayments: 60"

 

The PPI wasn't collected separately though.

 

The credit agreement for the monthly loan repayment states £131.75,

and at the bottom states "Total monthly repayment £156.74" (which is the loan, plus the PPI element of it.

 

Black Horse have kindly sent me a very detailed statment with their offer (looks like an internal thing, cenrtainly not what they'd normally send to a customer)

to refund the PPI which shows the last payment I made to them was on 20/12/2010,

but this argument has been raging since before then.

 

it then states "17/2/11 - Write Off 4492.2",

 

so I assume this has been sold to a DCA,

 

however I don't ever remember getting a deed of assignment.

 

I have certainly received letters from DCA's about the account over the years,

 

and every single one of them,

 

I have replied to stating

 

I haven't heard from a DCA for over a year,

 

however Black Horse are telling me to deal with Hillesden Securities if I want balances etc.

and are completley ignoring, what I feel is a legitimate complaint that the whole loan was mis-sold, not just the PPI.

 

I'm banging my head against a wall with them!

[dx100uk]

it this on your credit file?

 

dx

[andys5]

I honestly don't know the answer to that... I'll order a copy and get back to you with the information about that!

[dx100uk]

use noddle see below

 

dx

[andys5]

I have just checked my credit file with all 3 agencies, and amazingly, there is absolutley nothing whatsoever to do with Black Horse, or any DCA showing on there...

[dx100uk]

that's interesting

 

are al your old addresses showing as linked

 

dx

[andys5]

Yes! All my addresses are showing linked on all three agencies and go back to to before the loan was taken out :s

[dx100uk]

ok weird

 

anyhow

 

if its been sold they cant offset.

 

ok

can you do a spreadsheet please?

 

StatIntSheet v101.xls

[andys5]

Hi there,

I already have a fully explained offer from Black Horse which I have checked and it is correct.

 

It also includes a refund from the previous agreement as this loan was refinanced.

 

In the end up, the PPI policy on this loan which I am complaining about,

only ran for 5 months as they cancelled it when I started complaining about it

to get the monthly payment down from £156 to £131,

neither of which at the time I could actually afford.

 

I did however continue to make payments as and when I could and for what I could,

until the charges being applied for them phoning and writing to me

and part of the time for interest accrued made it utterly pointless for me to struggle

to pay it as every payment I made was just being swallowed up by charges!

[dx100uk]

and they got the refinance calc right as per no.1. below?

 

that's rare.

 

dx

[andys5]

I've looked through their offer and I'm happy with it.

 

It may be a few pounds out here or there, given there will be a difference of days from when they are calculating and when I am calculating,

but in the grand scheme of things, I'm not bothered.

 

What I'm bothered about, is the £3642 that they insist I owe, which is all interest and charges!

 

Yes, there's a few hundred pounds to be credited for the PPI,

however the difference between owing £3642, or £3000 when I believe I owe £850 is nothing!

 

I genuinely don't mean to be flippant, and I'm honest not being ungrateful, but the actual amount of PPI to be refunded is not important to me.

 

As I said previously. I looked at the amount loaned on the original agreement (ignoring the PPI as it was seperate),

subtracted the payments I have made and came up with the figure of £850.

That's all I want to pay them!

 

If they hadn't told me I'd be covered I wouldn't have took out the extension to the loan!

 

The amount of PPI that I want Black Horse to refund, or that they want to refund is irrelevant!

[dx100uk]

ah sorry I'd forgetten your last line post 1

you feel the fact that PPI was mis-sold..

 

..it invalidates the whole agreement as such

 

so you should only pay back the money you borrowed minus all interest/charges & PPI.

 

I suspect theres a very good reason why you've never seen threads here like yours...........

 

there was a large thread on multiple agreements here if you'd care to read it

 

might help you.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?171037-Multiple-agreements-falling-within-section-18-CCA-1974

 

 

....

 

when did you take this loan out?

 

dx

[andys5]

Thanks again for your reply.

 

Yes, you understand me correctly now..

 

. Having sat for the past hour or so reading that thread you linked to,

it would appear that I don't have a leg to stand on, as it was two separate agreements,

and it would appear that Black Horse have done my credit agreement correctly, to the letter.

 

The loan was taken out in August 2004,

I've attached a copy of the agreement.

 

From what I understand from the other thread, this thing is watertight,

and the loan is completley seperate from the PPI.

 

My thinking was that, everything is on the same agreement, same piece of paper, same signature etc,

therefor if one part was mis-sold, then the whole thing was. Seems I've been wrong for years...

 

http://s742.photobucket.com/user/andys52/media/BlackHorse_zps20dbc185.jpg.html

Edited April 10, 2014 by andys5

[andys5]

Seems I can't post a link to am image unless I've had more than 10 posts...

[dx100uk]

convert it to PDF

 

dx

[andys5]

Thanks again for your help so far!

[dx100uk]

for ref:

**you can post up images/letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

http://www.convert-jpg-to-pdf.net/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice DD-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

.

dx

[andys5]

Sorry, I was unsure how to attach an image properly, so I searched the forum and the first thread on the subject

said to send it to Photobucket, so that's what I did. I know for future though!

 

It appears I've made a bit of a mistake with my calculations on this.

 

The balance Black Horse say is due, is £4,492.20 however there is around £400 to be refunded due to the PPI

(depending on when the refund is made due to the statutory interest).

 

When however I calculated the £850 I thought was outstanding,

I forgot about the original loan like a total idiot,

so having re-calculated it all today and taking off the rough amount of PPI

I have come up with a new figure of £2099.90,

which is still half of what they reckon due to interest and charges.

 

Given that it would appear the PPI agreement and the Loan agreement are separate,

I am thinking that what I want to do is write to the CEO department,

offering them £2100 which will clear the actual balance I have physically had from them.

 

I know however they are just going to tell me that the account is with a DCA etc.

I remember some time ago there was a leaflet from the FOS called something like "Debt collector fair practices"

and there was a rule that said a disputed account should not be passed to a collection agency.

 

Does this still apply?

 

I could make that point in my letter to them?

 

I can pay the £2100 immediately, as I have a Capital One card with enough available credit,

and have recently taken out a Barclaycard with 0% on balance transfers for 36 months,

and have 4 months left to transfer balances, so that would give me just under 3 years to pay it off at 0%

plus get rid of Black Horse!

 

Any thoughts anyone?

 

Thanks Again.

Andy