Magistrates Court Letter

[vickiev]

Hi,

 

 

I'm hoping someone can give me some advice.

 

 

I travelled into London from Cambridge last December, buying a ticket at the booth and when the chap asked for my network rail card I showed him it and he issued me the ticket. I was checked on the train by an inspector and my network rail card had expired two days previously. I could either buy a penalty fare ticket from him or I could buy a new network rail card from the ticket office in Kings Cross and see what the prosecutions department said.

 

 

I explained all this in a letter to the prosecutions department and they have since written back to me saying they wish to go ahead with the case and a summons will be sent shortly.

 

 

I have tried to call the department numerous times to discuss this with them and have finally left them a message as they are not picking up their phones.

 

 

Where do I stand in all of this and can I avoid going to court? Any advice appreciated.

Kind Regards

Vickie

[Grotesque]

I could either buy a penalty fare ticket from him or I could buy a new network rail card from the ticket office in Kings Cross and see what the prosecutions department said.

 

What does this mean? More detail is required I'm afraid.

 

Representing.

[vickiev]

Hi

 

 

He said I could pay a penalty fare or he would issue me with a penalty notice and then I could take my chances with the prosecutions department and advised me to renew my railcard straightaway.

 

 

As I had showed the man at the booth my network rail card and he asked to see my card which I showed him and he issued me the ticket, even though neither of us realised the card was out of date - it was the inspector on the train who picked this up.

 

 

Vickie

[Grotesque]

So what did the inspector actually do on the train? Did he physically give you a (n orange) ticket, a piece of paper, or ask you some questions? Did you pay him anything, did he ask for your name and address? Etc.

 

Sorry for the twenty questions but your story is still somewhat opaque.

[vickiev]

Thanks for the response.

 

 

He issued me with a white penalty notice and took my name, address etc so the prosecutions department could get in touch.

 

 

Thanks

Vickie

[vickiev]

I didn't pay him anything - he offered me either the penalty notice letter or the penalty fare.

 

 

I felt I had the right ticket issued by the man at the booth when I showed him my card, I took the penalty notice / to be discussed with the prosecutions department.

[Grotesque]

So basically you received a penalty fare which you did not pay immediately? You don't have to- but you have three weeks to pay and / or appeal the notice. If it remains unpaid then it may be returned to the railway company to be pursued as fare evasion (because of course up until that point, the train fare has not been paid).

 

However I'm still slightly unsure what is meant by a 'penalty notice letter or the penalty fare''; you are either issued a penalty fare notice (as above) or the Inspector cautions you ('you do not have to say anything' etc), questions you, and reports you- in which case you receive no bits of paper but eventually a letter stating you are being prosecuted under the relevant legislation. So this still needs clarifying.

 

On another note, what does the letter say exactly? -minus your personal details please.

[vickiev]

Yes, thanks, I didn't pay it immediately or 3 weeks later and then received a letter from the prosecutions department asking me to state what had happened, or put my side across, which I did - so yes I was cautioned and received a penalty fare notice.

 

 

the letter I have received this morning states - having considered the points you have raised I am writing to inform you this department will be going forward with the case. A summons to attend a magistrates court will be sent to you in due course.

[Grotesque]

Right, now we're getting somewhere

 

Ironically if you had appealed the penalty within the allotted time frame, you would almost certainly have won the appeal on the grounds of implicitly having been authorised to travel by a member of railway staff (an 'authorised person' as the character in the ticket booth would be held to be). Assuming that you did buy it from a TO rather than a self-service machine of course- they can tell the difference!

 

Unfortunately it has now moved on from that position, because as I pointed out in post #7, regardless of the original rights or wrongs, the fare for that particular journey has not been offered and is still outstanding, and they are allowed (indeed, they have a statutory duty) to pursue this loss through court.

 

Obviously contact them again, other wise the next time you hear will probably be with a court date. I would suggest that it needs careful phrasing- not to sound too brash if I can put it like that, because at the moment they are legally in the right. So a sense of atonement would not go amiss- regret too perhaps. But you might try suggesting to them that this unfortunate state of affairs only arose because you misunderstood (NOT that you were misled-!) what the inspector said, and believed that you had to discuss it with Prosecutions Dept. first (and thus became time-expired on your appeal). You might also point out that you believed that the ticket office clerk had effectively given you permission to travel, otherwise you would never have considered doing so. Lastly, you may well feel it is opportune to suggest that a prosecution would have a disproportionate effect on your life / career etc; and that therefore, accepting your error in not double-checking the ticket and discount card (which might stick in your throat slightly but it is unfortunately a passenger's responsibility to hold the correct ticket before travelling), you also understand the amount of time, trouble, and expense that the company have already gone to in pursuing this, and that perhaps you could recompense them for their costs and pay all reasonable administrative expenses they have incurred.

 

It's worth a shot, but you must be mindful that there is absolutely no onus on them to accept your offer at all by this stage- it is now up to you to persuade them!

 

I tells ya, you really should have appealed at the time

[vickiev]

Thanks, I really appreciate the advice. I travel a lot and always have a valid fare so have been completely scuppered by this.

 

 

I will keep trying to contact them.

 

 

Thanks again.Vickie

[Grotesque]

Write to them- registered- and make sure you use the reference code they have assigned to your case, so all correspondence is kept together.

 

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[vickiev]

I've tried calling them and can't get through so I'll write to them.

Really appreciate your advice and will let you know how I get on.

[PresleyPlays]

Ah Vickie you need to take this very seriously and follow each point of Grotty's advice - he speaks the truth. Instead of just paying the penalty on the train and the matter being closed, now you have all this grief and if you're not careful or don't be pro-active and get on top of it properly you're going to end up in court, deep in the brown and facing a lifetime of consequences. Be humble, admit the mistake, swallow the pride in thinking they're making a mountain out of a molehill, and see from their side that legally you didn't have a correct ticket for the journey.

 

Good luck girl.