JSA / Work Programme and Holidays

[essexmat]

..

Hello all, I am new to the forum but have been reading a fair bit on here the last week or so and it seems a valuable source of information.

 

OK, some background information. I worked for 18 years in London since I qualified from college- I am now 39. Last February (2013) I was made redundant and have since paid off all my debts. I am single and claim JSA and Housing Benefit that totals around £649.00p/m.

 

I take looking for work seriously and have a good CV and covering lettersand do an on line diary of my searches and applications but in a year I have not had any luck due to the amount of people applying and also my geographical locations. I have been looking for work back in London and East Anglia.

 

As my one year was up at the JCP I was referred to INGEUS for the work programme and had my first appointment last week. I have never felt so humiliated in my life, I was basically told I wasn't trying hard enough and I should accept anything. I am not prepared withmy skills and experience to do that. Also, work has to pay, i.e. more than what I get on benefits as I would then be liable for health costs and council tax as well as my rent. I was also told about the 'better off calculation' but I simply do not trust this one iota - basically they want you off the books and working even if you are worse off.

 

I can only apply for what is relevant and usually apply for around 6 jobs a week, keep a diary and also the email receipts of applications so I really am trying. They treat me like a leper and yet I have paid in to the system for 18 years so it is MY MONEY not the governments!

 

I had very little support from JCP when there (they are not advisers they are signer oners!) and INGEUS after one appointment seem to just run through the motions - my next appointment is this Thursday. I do not need help with CV's, CL's, IT, interview skills etc - I am job ready so I told them sending me on these courses is a waste of time and money.

 

I also volunteer for two organisations and do 3 days a week within my allowed 16 hours so usually job search and apply around 20 hours a week. These roles keep my skills and references up to date so I am NOT going to give them up after the effort I took getting them including interviews and DBS checks. Also something work wise may eventually come of them.

 

I am a professional person who has never claimed and paid his way and yet am treated like a criminal and the same as someone who has never worked in their lives but yet claims thesame if bot more than me - the system stinks.

 

So, a 2 year work programme - what happens if after 2 years you still have not found employment (gainfu lnot just anything). Can they enforce anything else or stop your benefit? Also what about holidays if your parents want to pay for you? I have not been away or had a break for 3 years and my parents want to pay for a holiday for me for my 40th in August - am I allowed a holiday with benefit payments on JSA? I feel I deserve it, I am honest and openand have paid my way in life but being made redundant was not any fault of my own!

 

I also asked about workfare and being made to work anywhere - I was told in my case it won't happen but is this soundbites or true? Surely it is not good for me or the employer (slave traders) to 'employ me' As I said I need my volunteer roles to keep skills and references up to date.

 

I am disgusted with JCP and INGEUS at the moment and feel really down and like I am being treated like a leper or a criminal!

[Mr.P]

So, a 2 year work programme - what happens if after 2 years you still have not found employment (gainfu lnot just anything). Can they enforce anything else or stop your benefit? Also what about holidays if your parents want to pay for you? I have not been away or had a break for 3 years and my parents want to pay for a holiday for me for my 40th in August - am I allowed a holiday with benefit payments on JSA?

 

You can take a holiday of up to two weeks within the UK without having to "sign off" - I believe the JCP has a form that you fill in that allows you to still receive benefits, but you must be prepared to return if offered employment. Should your holiday be overseas, including within the EU, then you have to close your claim down and do a rapid reclaim on your return. Doing this automatically disallows any benefit payments whilst you are away and for a short time after returning (to allow for paperwork to be processed).

 

So your options are:

 

• Up to two weeks holiday within the UK with a remote possibility of having to cut it short to take up a job.
  
• Travel overseas, signing off in the process and losing any benefit payments - No restrictions on the length of stay and no requirement to return on short notice. This is also the only option if a UK holiday is for more than two weeks.
  

[essexmat]

Thanks for the reply. I am due to go away with friends for a week in the UK in August so that will be fine. What if you want to travel for the weekend overseas i.e. a short break say Friday-Sunday to Amsterdam? Surely weekends do not count for looking for work? I never do searches and applications on Saturdays and Sundays - I may be out of work but that is MY TIME and we are all allowed that, right?

[Mr.P]

Even for a short weekend break in Amsterdam, you should be signing off as you would technically be unavailable for work. Although it would be possible to look for work - Heck, I flew to Berlin after a job a while back...

 

In reality, unless UK boarder security inform the DWP of everyone leaving the country, how would they know....

[essexmat]

Just read up on the rules. Quite frankly after working and paying my way for 18 years I don't think a 2 week break whether UK based or overseas is unreasonable whilst claiming but then again Cameron and his cronies are like the gestapo so nothing shocks me. I certainly WOULD NOT sign off for a weekend break and to ensure you can travel back whilst in the UK? Erm, how if your travel is booked and with others? Totally unreasonable IMHO

[Mr.P]

I certainly WOULD NOT sign off for a weekend break

 

A word of caution: Taking a weekend break overseas whilst claiming benefits could be seen as fraud.

 

It is your choice should you wish to inform the JCP after the event.

[essexmat]

Even if you leave on the Friday afternoon and back on the Sunday to commence job searching again on the Monday? Surely your weekends do not count towards benefit? In a year I have NEVER searched for or applied for work on weekends. Even being unemployed you are surely entitled to weekends for family and friends

[Beatrice Bee]

They make a lot of JSA claimants sign in their Jobseeker's Agreement that they log into their Universal Jobmatch account daily. If you tick the box that you allow DWP / JCP access to your account they can see whether you logged in daily.

 

Saw one poster up here who got caught out after a few weeks. Please check what you signed in your agreement.

 

If you look in your little green signing on booklet, it says that "you have to report change of circumstances immediately and tell JCP in advance if you go away from home even it is for one day only".

 

Advisers would have to be really evil to call you back from your holiday with a letter.

[essexmat]

Never have and never will use UJM. I used it at the very beginning when I signed on and the jobs on there are atrocious (mainly badly paid and part time work) I proved to advisers I used external sites and have also not given access to my account and they said this was fine and it has never been questioned. I keep all email receipts for applications and have my own word template for recording applications and follow ups so they have no grounds for sanction or mandate against me. Believe me, if I could afford to do without the lousy £70p/w and going through this I would but I have bills to pay so I have to put up with it. It is ridiculous the measures put in place, so what you are all saying and what the DWP are saying is if I decide to take a day out (day trip) somewhere I am 'not actively looking for work' and I can be sanctioned? For one day out? Surely this breaches human rights as everyone is surely alloed some form of break or are we supposed to (a) search for jobs 40 hours a week inc weekends (b) not go away without signing 'off' © not have a day away from this mundane and often demoralising task (d) not have a social life (e) not have a family life. If this is the case then the DWP/JCP/INGEUS etc really are nazi's!

[Beatrice Bee]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/269165/wp-pg-chapter-5.pdf

[Mr.P]

so what you are all saying and what the DWP are saying is if I decide to take a day out (day trip) somewhere I am 'not actively looking for work' and I can be sanctioned? For one day out? Surely this breaches human rights!

 

If you decide to go out for the day/weekend to "investigate the possibilities of moving to another area in order to find work", what you do beyond that is your personal affair. What constitutes "actively seeking employment" is somewhat vague and the guidance only provides examples - Use this to your advantage if you want a day out somewhere.

 

Human Rights do not come in to it - The general opinion, fuelled by the media, is that the unemployed spend most of their time sitting on their backsides drinking cheap beer, smoking, and watching TV. Why should they need a holiday...

 

Being unemployed sucks. Public attitude is misguided at best. All you can do is make the most of any opportunity that comes along.

 

If you do take a two week break within the UK, fill in the DWP forms and inform the WP provider that you are unavailable for that period (your choice to tell them the reason). For a weekend away, I personally would say nothing.

[essexmat]

OK so if I am on 'holiday' in Ireland or somewhere 400+ miles awayI can be called back for an interview? Meaning possibly £000's of expenses which I do not have. Sorry, the system is a mess. It should allow a 2 week break in a 12 month period for holidays regardless of location. Even the unemployed deserve their own time surely? What if the holiday was paid for by a third party but you still needed your JSA payments for bills etc? Hardly fair is it although I see it from a 'you are away so not seeking work therefore why should you be paid' point of view. Never mind, sod me, only paid around £200k in NI and TAX in my work life and claimed around £8k in total so far.

[essexmat]

If you decide to go out for the day/weekend to "investigate the possibilities of moving to another area in order to find work", what you do beyond that is your personal affair. What constitutes "actively seeking employment" is somewhat vague and the guidance only provides examples - Use this to your advantage if you want a day out somewhere.

 

Human Rights do not come in to it - The general opinion, fuelled by the media, is that the unemployed spend most of their time sitting on their backsides drinking cheap beer, smoking, and watching TV. Why should they need a holiday...

 

Being unemployed sucks. Public attitude is misguided at best. All you can do is make the most of any opportunity that comes along.

 

I don't - I actively engage in searching for work so deserve some time to myself especially with my volunteering roles. I do not spend money on beer or fags and apart from the odd meal out I spend very little of my benefit money on luxuries as I cannot afford to. When parents know what you are going through and offer to pay for a break I am going to accept it no matter what. Will discuss with INGEUS when I see them on Thursday

Edited February 18, 2014 by honeybee13
Pejorative term.

[essexmat]

One thing I would like cleared up is are we expected to be searching and applying for jobs on weekends? I have never done it and never will and never been asked to. If a friend asks me for a beer on a Saturday and I have not been searching for work can that be seen against me? I do understand the DWP trying to out the cheats and those with no intention of finding work but don't punish us all unfairly when we have lives as well (social and family)

[Beatrice Bee]

It is the employer who contacts you to tell you to attend a job interview, not the JCP.

Since it is your annual two-week holiday from job searching, I don't suppose JCP can interrupt it with a JCP app.

More likely, it is for correspondence purposes. There may be a letter of entitlement doubt to which claimants have to respond within less than two weeks so you would miss the deadline while sunning yourself in Scotland on a two-week holiday.

 

They just want to make you feel uncomfortable: "tell JCP the new address even if you are away from home for one day only" is unreasonable. You stay at a friend's for the weekend and you supposed to give JCP their address?

[essexmat]

"They just want to make you feel uncomfortable: "tell JCP the new address even if you are away from home for one day only" is unreasonable. You stay at a friend's for the weekend and you supposed to give JCP their address?"

 

Exactly, it is nothing short of harrassment IMHO

[Beatrice Bee]

There was a poster up here who paid into the system for 20 years and his advisers gladly sanctioned him after a few weeks of claiming for not logging into his universal jobmatch on Xmas Day and New Years day as he had signed to sign in daily.

Just say yes if asked whether you search for jobs daily. No point starting an argument with them. When you are out for a beer, you looked at the newsagents shop window ads to see if any jobs on offer. You asked the bartender if any jobs on offer.

[essexmat]

I am not argumentative but during my work career and life events I have learnt to stick up for myself but that can sometimes get me in to trouble. I agree, when 'away' or 'out' say you went there to look for opportunities in the area and whether relocating was a possibility etc. I would simply jot down that I visited bars for work and looked in the local papers etc. Sanctioned for not logging in and looking for work on Xmas Day and NYD - unreal, so family suffer for a couple of days out of the year? Never have and never will look for work on Saturday's or Sunday's or Bank Holidays or Xmas time

[essexmat]

It seems that some JCP's are stricter than others or maybe it depends who you see. The three 'advisers' I have had in a year have generally been pretty relaxed as we built up a relationship of trust and I always provided evidence of searches etc. INGEUS is another matter, only my second appointment this Thursday so I will give it a few appointments before I really judge them

[Beatrice Bee]

They get bonuses for getting ppl off benefits. Finding work is one way off getting off benefits. Four-week sanction and no money for four weeks for not attending an app about which you never got a notification is another. Backstubbing ***, some of them are.

 

Stand up for yourself and say where is the proof that that letter was actually posted or the notification was handed to you. Saying I can not prove that I did not receive that letter makes it easy for them. We see horror stories up here but I would like to believe that most advisers have good intention. Finished work programme a few weeks ago and only one adviser tried to give me trouble after I complained about her to the manager.

 

Quite normal not to see any one adviser more than three times as they give up their job pretty quick. They win if you get upset over their rules and ways.

[antone]

They get bonuses for getting ppl off benefits.

 

Just to be clear, this may apply to WP provider staff, but JCP staff do not receive bonuses for getting people off benefits. I think that's probably what you meant anyway, just looking to remove any ambiguity.

[vinny47]

I don't - I actively engage in searching for work so deserve some time to myself especially with my volunteering roles. I do not spend money on beer or fags and apart from the odd meal out I spend very little of my benefit money on luxuries as I cannot afford to. When parents know what you are going through and offer to pay for a break I am going to accept it no matter what. Will discuss with INGEUS when I see them on Thursday (nazi's)

 

 

No Need to contact Dwp if you are going to discuss this with Ingeus on Thursday They will report you to the DWP

[essexmat]

I won't be telling them anything - I am not going to give them an ammo whatsoever. Basically I know what I do all week with volunteering and job searches/applications so if they ever tried to sanction me I would be down on them like a tonne of bricks. Maybe those who have never worked and defraud the system should carry on being allowed to go on holidays, to the pub, buy fags and do nothing all day - system stinks!

[Beatrice Bee]

Yes, I have meant WP providers. Governments talks about "less people are receiving benefits" to tell the public they are doing a good job and "reducing unemployment". Those who never claimed won't know that claiming and signing on does not necessarily mean receiving and sanctions of 4 weeks to 3 years exist / improve statistics or rhetoric to win next election.

 

Allegedly, WP provider advisers are on low wages and are meant to top it up with job outcome payments: sustained employment aka an over six-month placement for the claimant, whether claimant finds job himself or WP provider helped some way or another.

 

It is never over: you just put onto the next scheme with a different name: post work programme support for six months or Help to Work Scheme to enjoy community work.

[antone]

No Need to contact Dwp if you are going to discuss this with Ingeus on Thursday They will report you to the DWP

 

To be fair, though, if a DM receives a WP08 (referral for possible sanction) that says "Claimant stated he was considering taking a holiday" they will laugh out loud and round-file it.