Want to complain about, but not to. atos - ** IN SUPPORT GROUP **

[Mark_Hughes]

Hi. My ESA was recently terminated as atos said they had a telephone conversation with me during which I refused to attend a wca meeting. I am in the process of obtaining my phone logs which will prove them outright liars, but I'm not happy about complaining TO atos ABOUT atos! Is there an independent agency I can address these complaints to? Their decision was overturned, but I still want to complain officially. By the way, since my claim has been reinstated, I am no longer on the 'enhanced' rate of payment. Anyone know anything about this?

Edited February 12, 2014 by Mark_Hughes
punctuation

[**Margaret**]

:Mark_Hughes:

 

Atos are contracted to the Department for Work n Pensions, to provide disability assessments for benefit entitlement. In the first instance Work n Pensions will expect you to complain to their contractor. And when you're seething with what will probably be a very patronising response that the mix up was your fault, you can move on to Jobcentreplus' own complaints procedure.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@benefits/documents/digitalasset/dg_202270.pdf

 

If you're still unhappy, the booklet above has an address for the Independent Case Examiner.

 

Or you can further clutter the 'in' tray of your Member of Parliament. Most of them are snowed under with complaints about Atos.

 

While I can empathise, you should be aware that complaints about Atos are hard work. Close friend had a very acrimonious ten months of letter tennis to get a complaint about an assessment partially upheld.

 

As you've mentioned an 'enhanced' rate of payment, I presume the appointment was part of reassessment for an existing award of employment n support. If so, and the termination was revised, you should be in receipt of the same rate until there's a new determination as to your capability for work/work related activity.

 

Good luck, Margaret.

[rebel11]

Hi Mark_Hughes

 

Once you get a response from Jobcentreplus, if your still not satisfied they have dealt with your complaint, then you should complain to:-

Noel Shanahan

Director General Operations

PO Box 50101

London SW1P 2WU

 

Email address:- Noel.Shanahan8@dwp.gsi.gov.uk

 

[Mark_Hughes]

Thank you both for responding so quickly

I will definitely look into the links you have given. I just find it infuriating that atos could resort to simple lying (and really stupid lying at that - they claimed not to have received a letter which I sent special delivery (or whatever they call it now; recorded delivery, basically) which they had actually signed for! This as well as the fabricated phone conversation) and nonchalantly terminate my benefit to cover their own stupidity and inefficiency. By the way, does anyone know if it's possible to demand a reason for the refusal of a home visit?

[**Margaret**]

:Mark_Hughes:

 

For Atos to deny receipt of letters they (or a Royal Mail opening unit) have signed for is par for the course. They're also very good at separating medical evidence from ESA50 questionnaires. So when you get to round two, whether at Atos or at home, it's a good idea to have extra copies of medical evidence in case the first lot's gone walkabout.

 

Unfortunately it isn't possible to demand reasons from Atos for refusal of a home visit. Should you come to an impasse with them, they'll return your file to Jobcentreplus for a decision maker to consider good cause for 'failure to attend'.

 

Couple more links which may help your preparations for next time;

 

http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/08/atos-healthcare-arranging-a-home-visit-for-your-work-capability-assessment/

 

http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/12/how-to-request-an-audio-recorded-assessment

 

Currently, the four week cut off to wait for an audio recorder remains suspended, and it's the best defence against he said/she said.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[rebel11]

I've heard plenty of stories where the DWP has signed for Recorded Deliver, in fact the DWP had signed for it using the buildings name. When it was chased up, they said although it's been signed for doesn't mean it's been received.

 

In normal organizations generally, you send it Recorded, they receive it.

With ATOS / DWP, you send it Recorded, then you have to chase it, otherwise you can be thinking for weeks/months they have received it, even though it's been signed for.

[Mark_Hughes]

So if you send a doctor's note supporting your request for a home visit and they simply refuse it, although you can't demand a reason why, you can appeal against their arbitrary decision. Is that correct, or are atos quite simply a law unto themselves?

[**Margaret**]

:Mark_Hughes:

 

In a nutshell, that's correct.

 

Should Atos decide a claimant doesn't need a home visit, they'll send an appointment for him/her to attend one of their assessment centres. If the claimant doesn't show, Atos send a letter (ref BF223) to be returned to Jobcentreplus with an explanation for the no show. Decision maker determines whether there's good cause for 'failure to attend' and either disallows benefit or returns the claimant's file to Atos for round two. Disallowance can be appealed, via a mandatory reconsideration by a different decision maker, to the Tribunals Service.

 

Tribunal decides, on a balance of probability, whether it was reasonable for the claimant not to attend Atos. There's no assessment rate employment n support pending a 'failure to attend'. If you're interested, there's some caselaw at;

 

http://www.osscsc.gov.uk/Aspx/default.aspx

 

Decisions on 'failure to attend' for incapacity benefit set the precedent for employment n support.

 

Margaret.

[Mark_Hughes]

Margaret - thanks very much for all the invaluable info and links you have provided. My benefit was paid this week (full rate) so I don't know how long it will be till I get my next summons from atos. I have been through this hoop before - call to wca meeting, 0 points, benefit stopped, appeal, independent tribunal overturns atos decision, benefit reinstated, rinse and repeat. Of course, this time the mob in power ('government' is too grand a term I feel) has severely restricted access to legal aid so advice given by people like yourself is a very real help. Thanks again,

Mark

[Mark_Hughes]

Now I have another question! After all that, I now hear that atos are suspending wca meetings indefinitely, and yet I received a call yesterday (3.3.14) from atos cheerfully announcing that my request for a home visit has been approved (!) and they would get back to me within the next two weeks to let me know the date. Which is it? Am I being tagged because my original wca was scheduled for 27.12.13?

[rebel11]

Hi mark

 

Where have you heard this from? 'Atos are suspending wca meetings indefinitely'. I think you need to hear it from the DWP in writing.

 

Now I have another question! After all that, I now hear that atos are suspending wca meetings indefinitely, and yet I received a call yesterday (3.3.14) from atos cheerfully announcing that my request for a home visit has been approved (!) and they would get back to me within the next two weeks to let me know the date. Which is it? Am I being tagged because my original wca was scheduled for 27.12.13?

[Mark_Hughes]

Unfortunately I can't post the link, but enter "atos wca meetings suspended" into google, second entry, "Diary Of A Benefit Scrounger: BREAKING NEWS"

[rebel11]

Hi Mark

 

It's needs to be official,the DWP need to write to you. That website is not part of the DWP.

 

Unfortunately I can't post the link, but enter "atos wca meetings suspended" into google, second entry, "Diary Of A Benefit Scrounger: BREAKING NEWS"

[**Margaret**]

:Mark_Hughes:

 

With effect from 20 January 14, Work n Pensions have suspended all reassessments (not already in progress) for employment n support claimants for up to two years. The intention is to prioritise new claims and conversion awards from incapacity benefit. There's a statement about it on the Atos website;

 

http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2014/02/clarification-about-the-completion-of-work-capability-assessments

 

Margaret.

[Mark_Hughes]

Hello again Margaret, thanks for the info. That's typical - if my assessment had been a few weeks later I would be off the hook! Anyway, I received a letter from atos today informing me my home visit will be on 17.03.14. As you can probably imagine, I'm looking forward to it with eager anticipation! To be fair, I have had a home visit before and the doctor on that occasion was pretty sympathetic and reassured me that it 'would be OK'. Sure enough, she turned in a favourable report and all was well. Had trouble since then, but I suppose it's just the luck of the draw as to who you get and what mood they're in. That's no way to run a railroad, but there it is.

Thanks again, Mark

Edited March 5, 2014 by Mark_Hughes
speling

[Mark_Hughes]

I just had a conversation with someone who made quite an interesting point. My original wca meeting was scheduled for 27.12.13, obviously before the 20.01.14 deadline. However, since then, atos have caused my claim to be terminated, a decision subsequently overturned. Nevertheless, surely, despite their suddenly acquiescing to my request for a home visit - a request made with reference to the previous wca, and refused point-blank at the time - doesn't this wca appointment legally count as a new, i.e post-Jan 20 referral? In which case, is it strictly enforceable? Could I ask DWP for exemption on these grounds? I didn't receive the letter informing me my ESA had been terminated until 23.01.14, already after the deadline date. So how could the referral for a new wca have been generated before my ESA was terminated, that decision overturned, and my benefit reinstated?

Edited March 5, 2014 by Mark_Hughes
Had a thought

[**Margaret**]

:Mark_Hughes:

 

Well it's an interesting conundrum but I think Jobcentreplus will argue that your reassessment started with the referral to Atos that triggered the ESA50. Cos the termination was revised it's the same reassessment.

 

Then there's the small matter of;

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/regulation/19/made

(Paras 7 and 8)

 

Decision makers can refer for reassessment whenever they choose after three months, whatever the recommended interval.

 

Margaret.

[Mark_Hughes]

Margaret - Yes, that's exactly what they did say! They said that basically they had informed atos that they were wrong to have taken my non-attendance as grounds for termination of my claim, and that they should have simply accepted that a genuine misunderstanding had occurred, and issued me with a new wca date. Therefore, my wca predates the 20.01.14 cutoff date. So that, as they say, is it and all about it. It doesn't explain why atos are suddenly all sweetness and light about my request for the home visit they refused first time round, but perhaps they have a nefarious purpose...

[Mark_Hughes]

..

Edited March 13, 2014 by Mark_Hughes

[reallymadwoman]

1. If you covertly record and it's discovered, the assessment will be terminated. Only do this if you are absolutely sure you won't be found out. If you do covertly record and want to use a transcript during an appeal, it is entirely up to the judge whether or not to allow it, though anecdotal evidence is that they usually do. Unfortunately, I think it's a bit late for you to request a recorded assessment after your previous hassle, but you could try. At best it would only delay things though.

2. You can email ATOS at custrelations@atoshealthcare.com and ask for the doctor's GMC number. They may be able to provide it before your assessment, otherwise ask the doctor before the assessment starts. Home visits have to be carried out by a qualified doctor, and that means he must be on the GMC register.

[Mark_Hughes]

OK. I withdrew my previous posts as I know atos are fairly web-savvy and I didn't want to tip my hand (remember, you're not paranoid if they really are out to get you). Just had wca meeting, doctor very sympathetic and friendly, pretty well told me I had nothing to worry about. Now, either he was on the level and a genuinely OK guy, or a terrific and cunning actor. I feel pretty optimistic. Anyway, time will tell. One thing he did say that might provide some encouragement to some of you out there waiting for your wca is that atos are reluctant to tangle a second time with someone who has already won an appeal at Tribunal level. Anyway, thanks again to all who have taken the time to reply

[**Margaret**]

:Mark_Hughes:

Fingers crossed for the correct outcome.

And thanx for sharing the doctor's comment with us. Once upon a time a tribunal decision was automatically copied into a referral to Atos. Nowadays it's hit and miss (usually miss) so it's always worth enclosing a copy of a favourable tribunal decision with an ESA50 questionnaire.

Margaret.

[Mark_Hughes]

Thanks Margaret, and yes, that's a point - we were talking about feeling stressed at interview-type situations and I said - without thinking, not 'politically' as it were - how fraught I had found the Tribunal experience (though, again, both the Doctor and the lawyer were both open and sympathetic), and he actually asked if I had won. I said yes and he made a kind of 'well there you are then!' gesture and that was when he said atos were 'reluctant to tangle again' with someone who had won an appeal. He didn't have that fact in his notes, which I thought was a bit surprising. So yes, anything you can hit them with is worthwhile.

Mark

[Grotesque]

Mark Hughes, apropos nothing but your own online security, I hope that isn't the name on your birth certificate or that you are otherwise legally known by.

[Mark_Hughes]

Well, I got my letter today - I have been moved to the Support Group, my benefit has been increased and I'm eligible for a Christmas bonus! Thanks to everyone who offered advice and support. Glad that's over (for now)