Lowell Court Action HBOS loan debt

[AndyOrch]

I appreciate that i was just pointing out in general how they operate....look around and there are claims for up to 20k...same principle applies as long as its over 1k debt.

I recall you stating that the lower figure is registered on your CRA files......it is normal to add the court fee and sol fee to the debt...is that the difference?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[pavlovthecat]

yes, the lower figure is the debt stated in the CRA files, one recorded for HAlifax, one for Lowell, two slightly different amounts but both lower than the £1xxx, yes, the difference is the court feel and solicitors fee. I didn't know that would be added to the 'curren't figure owed to them until court has found in their favour. The CCA letter didn't refer to the Court claim, it referenced the account number and 'debt' it was relating to. This was where the figure is £1xxx

 

Worse case scenario is that I get a CCJ. It won't happen as I will settle before that, or at worst, pay early enough for the CCJ to be removed. I just hate the thought of paying twice or even more as much as I defaulted, apparantly because Lowell can make up a figure and I can't prove otherwise. So I will fight it, but not expecting to win.

[AndyOrch]

So the bottom line is how has it jumped from £500 to £9xx once you have a copy of the agreement simply check on the default section of the T&Cs if they are allowed to add interest up until judgment.? Then next point is did HBOS add it or did Lowell add it?

[pavlovthecat]

Can I just check the date that my defence is due in by? is it 14+5+14? The date of the court claim is 27th Jan, so I have made the date of defence to be entered as 28th Feb? Is that right? just making sure I don't miss it.

 

Still no paperwork from Lowell's solicitors, but they said they have 12 working days for CCA request so that's not due til 27th, which is, I make it, the day before Defence is due? They have time.

[Guest Angel235]

I don't think they have to reply to your request?

 

Could be wrong but sure I've seen that from the site team

[pavlovthecat]

I don't think they have to reply to your request?

 

Could be wrong but sure I've seen that from the site team

 

Hi Angel, thank you for posting. My understanding is that they don't have to reply to the CPR request, but that it won't necessarily help them further down the line, adds to my defence.

 

But, also, my understanding is that they have to respond to the CCA request within 12 working days, or else they cannot enforce the alleged debt through the court process, not until the paperwork requested in the CCA request has been received? (And, separately to the court process, if they take longer than 12 days, I can complain to trading standards? not sure about that bit?

 

I am sure someone will confirm I understood that correctly. My defence is going to be that I simply cannot defend until I have the paperwork that confirms that they own this debt, how this amount has come about as I don't recognise it, and that the default is legal, and so if I don't have the paperwork by the time I have to complete my defence, that is all I can say. But obviously in a slightly more professional manner!

 

The thing is, it makes sense for them to just give me the info I ask for, as then I know what I owe and can work on negotiating a settlement based on that. I am not trying to get out of paying, just don't want to pay over double what I should so if they have the paperwork they should just get on and send it rather than drag this out.

 

I don't see how they could have given me opportunity to sort this out if they only purchased the debt a week or two before court action, which is what they have said on the claim form (assigned earlier in Jan 2014), if they had have contacted me, I would have done all this chasing of info before it went to court and settled before then.

[AndyOrch]

Except for the Trading Standards part.

 

Andy

[pavlovthecat]

Can I just check the date that my defence is due in by? is it 14+5+14? The date of the court claim is 27th Jan, so I have made the date of defence to be entered as 28th Feb? Is that right? just making sure I don't miss it.

 

Still no paperwork from Lowell's solicitors, but they said they have 12 working days for CCA request so that's not due til 27th, which is, I make it, the day before Defence is due? They have time.

 

Can i just check with you Andy or someone else knowledgable that the date above for defence is correct? Don't want to miss it!

[AndyOrch]

Simply add 33 days to the date on the claim...that is the defence due date....but I always advocate submit a few days earlier in case MCOL is experiencing problems.

[pavlovthecat]

Simply add 33 days to the date on the claim...that is the defence due date....but I always advocate submit a few days earlier in case MCOL is experiencing problems.

 

thanks. Makes it Saturday! so, Friday it is then! I will complete on Thursday as that is the last day for CCA to be responded to. I cut it fine... I will write it all out beforehand though, and copy it to word, so if there is a problem I can fax it over to the court right?

 

Do I have to send a copy to Lowells or will they see it on MCOL?

[AndyOrch]

MCOL forward a copy to the claimant.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[pavlovthecat]

So, this is a draft of a the defence I was planning on putting forward. I beleive andyorch this is one of your masterminds, pretty much unashamedly ripped from another thread. Is it appropriate for my purpose and can someone please comment on the questions I have, which are in bold next to the sections that I have queries on? Thank you

------------------------------

 

1. It is admitted that I the defendant have taken out a loan with Halifax Bank of Scotland in the past but have no information to confirm the account details, and will contend that all balances have been cleared - should I put here instead that I believe I owe some money but the amount owed is I believe, a different lower amount, as I don't know the account number so dont know for absolute certain its this account although very likely is

 

2. The defendant has absolutely no knowledge of any debt residue of this particular debt amount? and on the 11 February 2014 requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CPR 31.14 request. The claimant has declined to respond within the deadline set. should I add here that I have on the same date requested the same information using CCA request and have not to date had any information that I requested?

 

3. Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears to be without merit. The defendant asks to be allowed to submit a complete defence should the claimant provide copies of the original documents he will rely on.

 

4. The particulars of claim are vague and unsubstantiated with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement or contract with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. Furthermore, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 and196 of the Law of Property Act 1925 and Section 82 (a) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

7. The claimant has failed to comply with sections 111 AND 1V of the pre action conduct "practice directions".

 

8. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

9. For avoidance of doubt, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all to the particulars of claim, without further clarification/disclosure.

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence of claim to be true.

[AndyOrch]

1. It is admitted that I have had financial dealings with Halifax Bank of Scotland in the past but have no information to confirm any account details, I am not aware nor have I been approached by the original creditor of any outstanding monies.

 

 

" should I put here instead that I believe I owe some money but the amount owed is I believe, a different lower amount, as I don't know the account number so dont know for absolute certain its this account although very likely is " .........yes but no but yes but no but yes...:-)don't turn the defense into a partial admittance or the Court will ask why are you defending instead of part admitting

 

2. The defendant has absolutely no knowledge of any debt residue.On the 11 February 2014 I requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a Section 77/78 request. The claimant has declined to respond and remains in default of the section 77/78 request and until such compliance is unable to request any relief connected to the alleged agreement.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[rc14]

Hi just a warning but when I forced Lowell into court I struggled to get their defence papers too. They actually posted them by hand through my front door on the eve of the hearing. The judge did not accept that I had not had adequate opportunity to become aquainted. I was granter a free appeal on the basis that the judge had erred and won. However with the appeal I had to make an application forcing Lowell to comply with a DPA request. This time they emailed their appeal defence twenty minutes shy of the time limit on the judges direction notice. Keep checking with the courts if they have Lowell's bundle and make the courts aware if they obstruct.

[pavlovthecat]

Hi just a warning but when I forced Lowell into court I struggled to get their defence papers too. They actually posted them by hand through my front door on the eve of the hearing. The judge did not accept that I had not had adequate opportunity to become aquainted. I was granter a free appeal on the basis that the judge had erred and won. However with the appeal I had to make an application forcing Lowell to comply with a DPA request. This time they emailed their appeal defence twenty minutes shy of the time limit on the judges direction notice. Keep checking with the courts if they have Lowell's bundle and make the courts aware if they obstruct.

 

that's really useful to know. So, they sent you their defence papers the evening before the hearing - did they send them to the court before that, but not to you? So, from what you are saying I should contact the Court prior to the hearing regularly to check if they have the papers but they have not been sent to me?

[pavlovthecat]

1. It is admitted that I have had financial dealings with Halifax Bank of Scotland in the past but have no information to confirm any account details, I am not aware nor have I been approached by the original creditor of any outstanding monies.

 

 

" should I put here instead that I believe I owe some money but the amount owed is I believe, a different lower amount, as I don't know the account number so dont know for absolute certain its this account although very likely is " .........yes but no but yes but no but yes...:-)don't turn the defense into a partial admittance or the Court will ask why are you defending instead of part admitting

 

2. The defendant has absolutely no knowledge of any debt residue.On the 11 February 2014 I requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a Section 77/78 request. The claimant has declined to respond and remains in default of the section 77/78 request and until such compliance is unable to request any relief connected to the alleged agreement.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Brilliant Andy, that's great. I shall therefore, change as you have said and avoid anything suggesting partial admittance. I am going to register my defence in a moment. Later than planned.

 

If the defence deadline falls on a 'Saturday', does that make the actual last day friday or monday? I only ask as I am cutting it fine for tomorrow, so if Monday then I know I have got it in with plenty of time.

[pavlovthecat]

So, this is a draft of a the defence I was planning on putting forward. I beleive andyorch this is one of your masterminds, pretty much unashamedly ripped from another thread. Is it appropriate for my purpose and can someone please comment on the questions I have, which are in bold next to the sections that I have queries on? Thank you

------------------------------

 

1. It is admitted that I the defendant have taken out a loan with Halifax Bank of Scotland in the past but have no information to confirm the account details, and will contend that all balances have been cleared - should I put here instead that I believe I owe some money but the amount owed is I believe, a different lower amount, as I don't know the account number so dont know for absolute certain its this account although very likely is

 

2. The defendant has absolutely no knowledge of any debt residue of this particular debt amount? and on the 11 February 2014 requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CPR 31.14 request. The claimant has declined to respond within the deadline set. should I add here that I have on the same date requested the same information using CCA request and have not to date had any information that I requested?

 

3. Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears to be without merit. The defendant asks to be allowed to submit a complete defence should the claimant provide copies of the original documents he will rely on.

 

4. The particulars of claim are vague and unsubstantiated with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement or contract with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. Furthermore, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 and196 of the Law of Property Act 1925 and Section 82 (a) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

7. The claimant has failed to comply with sections 111 AND 1V of the pre action conduct "practice directions".

 

8. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

9. For avoidance of doubt, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all to the particulars of claim, without further clarification/disclosure.

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence of claim to be true.

 

Sorry, one more thing before I send it for sure.

 

Should I be adding something about the debt being enforceable until the information requested has been provided, or is that a given, seeing as they won't proceed without any paperwork from Lowell's solicitors?

[AndyOrch]

If your defence date is Saturday then its Saturday ...submit it in the morning.No need to reiterate the duties of the claimant if he cant comply he cant enforce...you may have to instill it further as it progresses but thats later on into the process.

 

I would do away with point 3 it basically repeats points 1/2

[pavlovthecat]

Ok defence is in. So, what happens now?

[AndyOrch]

They have 28 days to respond and proceed...if they don't the claim is stayed..if they do its allocated & transferred to your local county court.

[pavlovthecat]

And it is 'stayed' until they provide the information?

 

I am learning so much. I never knew that I could ask for an stayed case to be unstayed myself, but I can can't I?

 

I am saying that as an aside, as I had a builder mess up a build (which led to my financial ****)

and I fired him, due to leaving my home dangerous

and he refused to put it right in any proper and clear time.

 

He started a claim against me out of spite for a made up sum,

I counterclaimed,

we had first hearing, experts were to be called,

he didn't engage in that process and he didn't turn up to next hearing.

 

Judge dismissed his case out and we proceeded with mine

, with the judge stating the next hearing was to consider how much he would award,

rather than if he was going to (he was lovely about it all),

but this builder had to pay a fee of £300 or something before next hearing,

not sure what that was about now, and

he didn't pay, so it was stayed.

 

I am thinking, on hindsight I could have done something about that?

 

I didn't do any of this stuff I am doing now, I sent a letter of defence

which was like a life story and no legal info in it at all! apart from receipts of

what I had paid him. He walked leaving me out of pocket by around £7500,

possibly more,

although I was only counterclaiming for £5000.

 

It was about 3/4 years ago now, so probably too late to anything about.

 

a complete aside as I learn about the small claims,

it has reminded me of my fumbling vaguely through the court system with no clue

at all of legal procedures (but with building control inspector hoping to be called as a witness

and a witness statement from our architect) and

 

I could have got a judgement even with the case stayed.

[pavlovthecat]

They have 28 days to respond and proceed...if they don't the claim is stayed..if they do its allocated & transferred to your local county court.

 

I am fully expecting they will produce some stuff,

as I have read a few threads about their practice and dubiously constructed letters.

 

I will be interested to see what date of assignment they give,

in order to be able to actually contact me to notify of their ownership

and giving me opportunity to pay,

as they never sent one to me, and

 

they state on the claim form they were assigned the debt around 2 weeks before the court claim date.

[pavlovthecat]

I have received an acknowledgement form from court, telling me they are serving defence on claimant and that they have 28 days to reply. Also that they make attempt to resolve the dispute outside of court first. Yeah sure they will...

 

As I said, I expect they will produce some paperwork, cobbled together, and from what I have read of them, they won't back down, so they will most definitely proceed with this. I am just going to run with it.

 

Thanks for all your help so far, particularly Andy, and will be definitely coming back in a month or less with next steps advice!

[AndyOrch]

Sit back and relax now until (if) a Directions Questionnaire arrives...and we will take it from there.

[pavlovthecat]

I haven't had a reply from the solicitor with any information, or anything else since the letter from the court.

 

How long does it take for my defence to be sent to them from the time I put it in? I am wondering when the 28 days start from, as it's close now. It has already passed from the date of the letter to me, from the court. But that letter says 'serving' not 'served'.

 

So, as I have heard nothing, what happens if the 28 days has passed? I still expect it's only a matter of time before I hear from them, trying to gather the paperwork they need (or the cynic in me says 'creating' it). Do I need to request it is stayed, or is that done automatically? How long does that take, and what does Lowell's have to do to 'un-stay' it?