Parking Charge Notice - CPM (UK Car Park Management) - Advice please!!

[Stylewise]

Hi,

 

I am hoping I can get a little help/advice with a parking ticket recently issued.

 

I visited a friend at their Flat on New Year's Eve.

On arrival my friend advised me to park in a bay that in 2 years has never been allocated to any of the residents

& as such the residents class it as a visitors parking bay.

 

As the Car park gates were not working my friend provided me with a spare permit issued to their own parking bay to place in my car.

(This was so that any wardens would be aware that I was a genuine visitor to a resident).

We left their house around 9.20pm

after returning home my wife noticed that a parking charge notice had been placed on our car.

 

The PCN was for £60 raising to £100 if not paid in 14 days. It was issued under Contravention 1: Not displaying a valid permit.

 

I have appealed the ticket on the grounds that the resident I was visiting had contacted the housing association

who had verbally confirmed that the bay I was in could be used for visitors.

They also confirmed that there was no requirement for a permit to be displayed in a visitors bay.

 

CPM (UK Car Park Management) have written back & declined the appeal stating that a "breach of the terms & conditions of parking occurred"

 

I myself then called the housing association,

who then provided the contact details for a named representative at CPM.

 

I called CPM, they were not helpful.

They confirmed that the bay I was parked in had never be allocated to a specific resident

but stated that simply meant that 'NO ONE' could park in that parking bay as it was reserved until a resident required it.

Hmm, doesn't sound right to me?...

 

At this stage I have until tuesday 4th Feb to pay at the reduced rate of £60 which CPM have recommended I do

"to avoid further charges and possible action being taken".

 

I was about to pay the ticket online & luckily remembered about The CAG.

So here I am for help.

 

Is there anything else I can do before I accept defeat and pay this PCN?.

 

Thanks,

 

P.S. I have attached pictures if it helps.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Stylewise

[f16]

When they replied did you get a POPLA no.? If not they have broken a rule.

 

Can you provide photos of signs and give the wording, and sizes of the signs?

There has to be a sign at the entrance to the car park and more placed around it

[f16]

Can you get in writting from the housing association that visitors don't need a permit? Can they confirm the space you used is not allocated and therefore can be used as a visitors space?

You should have waited for the notice to keeper (NTK) before responding, but that is done now but it will not matter.

 

Do not crumble and pay...... Take the wife out for dinner

Your in "safe hands" on here. your defence will be formulated by others. (I don't do the legal bit)

Enjoy Sunday.

[Stylewise]

Thank you for your reply f16.

 

I can't remember the date exactly but the housing association confirmed the letter was sent in June 2012, they have not confirmed if it will be resent. My friend Knows that he has a copy but has misplaced it.

 

In the appeal letter CPM did mention that I could further appeal to popla, however there is no mention on a popla number?

[Stylewise]

When they replied did you get a POPLA no.? If not they have broken a rule.

 

Can you provide photos of signs and give the wording, and sizes of the signs?

There has to be a sign at the entrance to the car park and more placed around it

 

There was no POPLA number in the letter. It does however say the following:- 'you do have the right to appeal to popla. Please be advised that if this is unsuccessful then you will then lose the right to pay at the reduced amount, you may also be liable for our costs if debt recovery or court action is taken'

 

There are signs around the car park & in fact there was actually a sign next to the car when we parked. However as we were with the resident who advised us where we could park, I have to admit I didn't read the sign. I have attached an image of the sign however I do not know the size.

 

[ATTACH]49010[/ATTACH]

[f16]

On your first post you need to remove the PCN3XXXXXXXXX or any other personal detail that can identify you

[Stylewise]

Thanks done.

[f16]

There was no POPLA number in the letter. It does however say the following:- 'you do have the right to appeal to popla. Please be advised that if this is unsuccessful then you will then lose the right to pay at the reduced amount, you may also be liable for our costs if debt recovery or court action is taken'

 

[ATTACH]49010[/ATTACH]

 

Don't worry about the threats....This is the first letter.

Later on they carry on with "MAY "do this and "if"... "we could"..."IT might"

They could threaten to "drag you through the streets with the last 12 Derby winners". They are complete Clowns

[ericsbrother]

As they havent given you a POPLA ref number and details of ow to appeal I would be leaving it up to them to make the next move. they only have a limited amount of time to write to the registered keeper of the vehicle and then you can appeal to them in that capacity andif they turn down that appeal and fail to give you that all important number they will have breached the code of practice that allows them to make you liable for any charge.

So, for the moment make them do the work and if and when they contact you come back here and tell us what the letter says. Do not pay them just because they offer a discount, you dont owe them anything so why pay? You will have plenty of time to get your argumants in order.

[f16]

The housing association are the "land owners". They have stated in the letter june 2012 that the space is noy allocated and can be used for visitors.

Need a copy of the letter.

You have caused ,no loss or damage and were not trespassing becaue you had the land owners permission. End of!!!!!

[Stylewise]

Hello again,

 

Thanks again for the help with this case previously....

 

3 months on & we have now had a letter from Debt Recovery Plus LTD (DRP) stating "Demand for payment of an unpaid parking charge £149". It goes on to say that as we have not paid the parking charge this case has been referred to them by their client. They are now requesting we pay £149. If we do not pay by 13/05/2014 or have not agreed a payment option they will recommend to the creditor's solicitors that court action be taken.

 

This is the first letter addressed to the "registered keeper" that we have had since the incident.

 

I'm not quite sure what to do now, is it time to pay?

 

Please help.

[ericsbrother]

Ignore DRP as they are toothless rentathreats. generally, when they write to you it is the end of the road. They company has failed to keep to the timelines allowed to claim from you as RK so they are hoping that a silly letterhead will do the trick and DRP have added a few quid for their holidy fund. They dont hold a credit licence so they cant add anything to even a proper debt so adding ti to a non-existent one is plainly daft.

Expect a couple more letters with a few misquoted threats in them.

[filrobbo]

Do not pay them any thing, they will said more threating letters but that's all they are.

[f16]

 

I'm not quite sure what to do now, is it time to pay?

 

Please help.

 

No. It's not time to pay !!

 

Unless it's for "Dinner" for your partner.

 

£149.00 Your kidding me. Pay it ????

 

No.

Give your "wallet and cerdit cards to your partner"

 

You owe this lot nothing.

[mikeymack2002]

The PPC have a duty to issue you with the all important POPLA code if they have failed to do so report PPC to the

BPA (British Parking Authority)

 

 

Then write to the PPC copy in the Landlord demand the code then appeal it at POPLA.

 

 

Don't forget to include that no loss was incurred to the Land owner and that they too had stated in writing this is a visitors bay, ask the Landlord for a copy of this letter if you/the tenant no longer have this.

 

 

I myself have a similar thread running and am fighting this at POPLA at present.

 

 

Go back to the site and get full details and exact photographs of the signs sizes and content. Does the Landlord have planning permission for these signs. Also ask who the "contract" is between and ask for a copy of this as well, this all helps in the long run.

 

 

A parking charge relates to a breach of contract therefore it is a way to fight this. Ask them for the code, but since they will

not accept your reasons they will deny the appeal.

 

 

Then you must be issued a POPLA code to appeal this at the next level.

 

 

MM

[Stylewise]

Thanks for your help again guys...

 

I have had a copy of the updated letter from the housing association dated May 2013. This actual wording in the letter confirms that are 2 visitors bays that do not require permits but does not actually confirm the location of the bays.

 

In the actual car park itself there is an area designated especially for resident parking & then separately 2 parking spaces next to the gated entrance to the car park. The 2 spaces are joined together by a line but only 1 of the 2 spaces are marked visitor. When I received the charge I was parked in the other space, this is the one that according to CPM has never been allocated but is reserved until needed? None of the other spaces in the car park have visitor on them, so where exactly is this 2nd parking space?

 

I recently went back to visit my friend who along with another resident confirmed they were told by the Housing Association that both of the spaces by the gated entrance were for visitor use. The funny thing (or not) is that when I went to visit my friend I had actually managed to park in the space marked for Visitors. When I was leaving the car park the car in the space next to me (the space I had previously received my charge) had also received a parking charge. This leads me to believe that either CPM are deliberately taking advantage of the confusion around this parking space or they are genuinely trying to do an honest days work... huh, yeah right!

[armadillo71]

Hello again,

 

Thanks again for the help with this case previously....

 

3 months on & we have now had a letter from Debt Recovery Plus LTD (DRP) stating "Demand for payment of an unpaid parking charge £149". It goes on to say that as we have not paid the parking charge this case has been referred to them by their client. They are now requesting we pay £149. If we do not pay by 13/05/2014 or have not agreed a payment option they will recommend to the creditor's solicitors that court action be taken.

 

This is the first letter addressed to the "registered keeper" that we have had since the incident.

 

I'm not quite sure what to do now, is it time to pay?

 

Please help.

 

 

DR+ will send you one more, maybe two, demands for payment. Then you will receive demands for payment from Zenith recovery services. Same company.

Idle threats as they can do nothing legally, apart from send threatograms.

 

 

You were authorised to park by the land owner ,your friend...

 

 

Residents 1st service?

 

 

http://carpark-management.co.uk/apeals-centre.php

[allaboutbitsandbobs]

If I can read these threads then for sure so can UK Car Park management. However, I doubt that they are because they don't know their sidewalk from a drain hole. This is a long resopnse but I hope you will find it worth the read. I am responding specifically to CPM.

 

I have now received over 20 PCN's from them, but I have not bothered to ignore them. I have gone in the opposite direction and am taking action against them in small claims court. In Brief:

 

Due to the type of neighbour with nothing else to do and thinking they control and decide who parks where in a residential car park the local housing association decided to end the endless string of complaints from these individuals decided to engage UKCPM to 'patrol' and manage the car park area that is private and for the use of residence and visitors to the area. there are no numbered or designated parking bays and its is a first come first served as it always was. Having engaged CPM the housing association failed to notify any resident and we only received letters from CPM to register our vehicles. As there are usually 5 or 6 vacant bays at any one time and I had not been informed by the Housing association directly I ignored the letters. I should mention this parking is at the end of a dead end street.

 

I should also point out that my CCTV covers the parking area due to damage to my vehicle and the only vehicle to be ticketed has been mine and CPM do not patrol or monitor the parking but only come at a locals request by phone as I refuse to have or display a permit. They never check any other vehicle but go directly to mine give it a PCN and leave so I know it has been pre-identified. CPM's officials have even tried to damage my CCTV but have not realised I have more than one overlooking the others and can be clearly identified in uniform. Idiots. At one time I had 3 tickets on the windscreen and CPM came along and removed them all and placed a 4th now on its own. They even say on their own PCN it is illegal to remove or tamper with the PCN! Guess that's not part of the training then, but nice to have on CCTV. And why is it necessary for them to take 20+ pictures and spend extensive time looking into the vehicle to see what is there. They also take pictures of my TAX disk clearly stating tax exempt disabled. I notice only about 6 pictures end up on the website that suit them.

 

CPM came along and posted signage, one on my fence (the only fence on the actual site), and one on another fence on the public highway. I noticed the one on my fence and as it is my property gave them 24 hours to remove it which they did leaving only one on the public highway. i continued to park as I had and got several PCN's all ignored. CPM then came along some months later and posted another sign on the lamp post opposite the site about 4 mts above the ground and about 20 mts away from the site.

 

For £3 I went to the land registry office online and down loaded a map of the site clearly showing the car park being managed. I also downloaded the Google aerial and road photographs of the site. OK so now we have two signs (NOT ON SITE) with the details of potential fines £100 or £60 if paid in 14 days. You will note on all PNC's it states as per signage ON SITE. I was now happy to ignore them but as I said up front I decided not to.

 

OK, so having the land registry information I firstly went to the local council and advised them of the sign on the lamppost. Not only are you required to have planning permission to do this you also need permission period. The council passed it on the the county council, the lamppost and road coming under their authority, and after some months the sign was removed. Indication it was not legal and not (ON SITE). I was not bothered about the other sign as it was still not on site but on public highway. After collecting several PCN's and armed with the knowledge that at no time had my tenancy agreement been change, at no time had I been informed by the housing association that a management company was to manage the site, and that the signage was illegal I sent CPM a letter simply telling them to stop and desist posting PCN's on my vehicles detailing why and including a copy of the land registry plans showing the actual parking area which belonged to the housing association, the county council and private land. I also clearly stated that as their INVOICES, which is all they really are had been issued fraudulently I would be charging them a £100 administration fee for each further PCN I received and had cause to reply to from them or any collection agency they should chose to act as collection agencies. That they should cancel the respective tickets or should they further respond to the letter it would in both instances be seen as acceptance of this right and condition to claim the administration fee of £100 per response.

 

I heard nothing again regarding those PCN's until....... They put up a new sign on a pole, but even having given them the land registry map put it up on a property two properties away. what I mean is between the parking area and the grass which also happens to belong to the housing association is a wide footpath belonging to the county council. so the sign in effect says you can't park on the grass as it it NOT ON SITE. So seeing that they are totally incompetent I again contacted the local council who confirmed they had not received planning permission, the sign was a threat and danger to passers by because of its location and it was located NOT ON SITE, and they would be fining CPM and requesting planning permission and that retrospective permission would not be given and the sign would need to be removed.

 

Since the signage has been up and over the last two years as I say I have received over 20 PCN's all gone unpaid and thankfully I have received numerous letters from CPM and their collection agencies all with their threats and demand. The result is we are now at the small claims court and I am claiming £3700.00 in unpaid invoices sent to them for administrative charges for replying to all the letters they have sent me.

 

The other thing to consider in the above is that PCN's are for the loss of income from the land owner. As residents of the housing association we can park there as a first come first serve basis as per our tenancy agreements. This had not been changed. The housing association dose not charge extra for the parking so is not loosing any money so suffers no loss.

 

There are many ways to foil these so called parking management companies and I have taken this action because I have the time, patience and the determination not to let them get away with it. It should also be pointed out that these companies cannot just put up signs even on private property. They do need planning permission and must conform to rules and regulations set down by each authority. They are no above the law and if they want to act as professionals they should do so. Just as any shop owner has to have planning for their shop signage these companies need to obey the law.

 

But my best advice if you don't have the time and energy as I do is just ignore the PCN. Confirm it is not a PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE form a local authority (which should be challenged of paid), but is a PARKING CHARGE NOTICE with is only an invoice. It will be followed by letters and threats of court action and affecting your credit rating, it won't. These are just that, bullying threats that have no teeth. The Companies just don't have the money or time to actually challenge these PCN's that they know are unenforceable especially where there is no loss to the land owner.

[Meekyou]

I put in a complaint about UK CPM & DRP to the BPA for breaches of BPA CoP & harassment - BPA's response was pretty much as expected - no evidence of a breaches or harassment - so I threatened to complain to BPA CEO about the BPA's complaints department's lack of ability to fully & properly investigate a serious complaint against two of their members, and copied in the Daily Mail..... haven't heard a peep from either UK CPM or DRP since then, almost a year ago now

[allaboutbitsandbobs]

Good for you. Yes I agree if you have the time fight back "they don't like it up-em". Too many people are frightened of battling companies, but when they threaten and bully you need to. Contact Watchdog and other consumer programmes and the press they love to hit back at these rentacop wannabe's Especially if it's a good story.