@natwest_help agreed a tomlin order on a loan...can they then add 9yrs of outstanding interest?

[jason_mnm]

NOTE OLD AND NEW THREAD MERGED NOV 2013 - DX siteteam.

 

Please can anyone help me.

 

I took loan from Natwest in March 2008 which was irresponsible lending per OFT giudance.

 

And now I have got CCJ claim form from Incaaso for this.

 

Please help otherwise my career will be spoiled if I get CCJ

[slick132]

Hi Jason and welcome to CAG.

 

I've started you your own thread here in the Legal Issues forum, and have removed your other 3 copy posts. Please avoid multiple posts in different forums as you end up with questions and replies being spread all over the place.

 

I assume you've received a county court claim from the Northampton claims centre, issued by Incasso in respect of a Natwest loan, but please confirm.

 

On what date was the claim issued and have you replied to it at all yet.

 

Can you expand on what you say about irresponsible lending and the OFT guidance. Also some background info with rough dates may help us understand how best to guide you.

 

Did you send the lender or any DCA a request for sight of your credit agreement.

 

Roughly how much was the loan, when was it taken out and did you manage to make some repayments on time.

 

If you want to avoid a CCJ regarding this, you'll have to start reading as often as you can, here in the Legal Issues forum and elsewhere on the site.

[jason_mnm]

Thanks for your reply.

 

In March 2008 I went to Natwest Bank to pay for my credit card bill,

the lady in the counter told me if I can get loan.

 

I told her I already got around £37,000 debt on credit cards and my credit score is not good.

 

She told me do not worry, I said no I do not want, but she kept insisting me

and told me 'sir, just let me apply and see what happens'

 

She was so much on me

then she took me to one of her personal banker colleagues who checked my bank account

and applied the loan on her computer for me.

 

She entered all details chedking my Natwest account details.

 

Here I should tell you as I already having too much (£37,000) debt on my credit file,

they should have thought I am already in trouble with only one job £1500/month home taking

and that time to keep my payments of all credit cards

I was doing another weekends job where I was getting around £600-£700/month

but this job was only for 3 months then.

 

The Natwest personal banker should have checked that I was already paying around £1,200 on my credit cards bills

and should not have applied being a responsible lender.

 

However she applied for the loan with her own calculation of my salary and all details.

Then she gave the loan and she even transferred the £25K loan on the same day without checking my payslips

and identilty details on that day.

 

Out of this loan I paid £10k to Natwest credit cards itself and rest for my other debts.

 

After I got this loan I also lost my weekend job that I was doing.

 

I was having huge deficit after paying for my monthly credit cards and this loan monthly payments which was almost £1400.

 

I kept paying them the repayments per agreements till April 2009

 

Then this year sometime in April 2009 I started having serious problem cause I had no money left from that loan

and also i had hardly any disposable income to have a normal life.

 

I even could not enjoy my life while I was studying and also after I qualifed as I was not having no disposable money

after paying all these debts. I called not pay credit cards and loan bills.

 

At that time first thing I did I called Natwest loan informing I am having serius problem to pay that month repayments

and I said if they can do anything.

 

The lady of Natwest advised me to call CCCS and seek help.

 

I called CCCS and they adviced me to send token payments offer out of disposable income to all creditors.

 

Natwest loan refused to take,

Natwest credit cards did agree, and

MBNA put me through hardship program and

Barlclays was nice and kept beign nice to me till now.

 

Natwst loan kept ignoring my letter and though I kept paying them token payments for all these 6 months.

 

Then Triton took over the loan for a month and

then they sent it to Incasso

who sent me a letter on in Sept 2009 asking me to write to them or will take me to court.

 

I sent Incasso same letter advised by CCCS with token offer payments and with a cheque.

They took the payments which I saw from my bank statements.

 

But I was surprised that they sent me CCJ claim form for £35,000 ignoring my payment offer in this month.

 

After reading OFT guidance on bank on ledning,

I find the loan Natwest gave me was totally irresponsible when I already had £37,500 debts with less dosposable income.

I think if i had the debts that I had then without taking this £25k Natwest loan I would have been okay.

But this loan now has become problem of my whole life including my career that i built with so much hard work.

 

I sent acknowledgemnt form which gives me upto end of this week to file defence.

 

Now I cannot sleep thinking about this CCJ and living in constant fear of my life and career.

[jason_mnm]

Sorry I was writing the earlier mail so fast cause I donot want my wife to see it. That's why some words and sentence have been written in incorrect way, however I am sure u will understand what's my problem.

[jason_mnm]

Please be informed I have not sent no CCA request or DCA request letter to Natwest yet as I took the loan after April 2007. I was told any loan taken after April 2007 does not affect whether creditor can provide a true copy of agreements or not.

[jason_mnm]

Your kind advice will be much appreciated as I feel too lonely and helpless...

[slick132]

Hi Jason,

 

I'm sure if you have some time to read through other threads here, you'll see there are many people in the same position as you, swamped with debt.

 

I'll come back later with anything I can find about "unfair relationships" which may be of help to you.

[slick132]

This should be of interest to you - Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14)

 

Chapter 19, s.140A details amendments made by the CCA 2006, to the CCA1974.

 

You will need to work fast if you want to get a useful defence into court by the end of this week.

[jason_mnm]

Hi thr thanks for your kind advice.

I did read it..

but I feel so nervous now tha I am not able to understand how should I apply that rule.

 

To let you know I talked to Natwest today and they agreed to take my offer of token payments

but they want to get new agreements through court with tomlin order

saying if I ever miss any payments, the judgment will be on the credit file

and once the judgement on credit file, I will lose my memmership of my professional body and will also lose my job.

 

I think thay understood that I am too scared of my career and that's why they are trying to get new agreements

in case they cannot provide the original agreements.

The Natwest person also said they will expect significant increase of my repayments in 2nd year.

 

Do you think I should write to Natwest saying that they have done irresponsible lending to me

when I was already having a huge debts of £37,000.

I just do not know what should I do.

 

Now to save my career I have decided to take this new Natwest offer of new agreements and try to pay back.

But I do not know how I will be able to pay back £35,000 in one or two years.

 

Also my wife is pregnant and I will get new baby next year.. I just do not know what shall I do.

 

Natwest also said they will ask the court another week to wait till I sign the new contracts.

Do u think I should sign it and agree to the new terms.

Please advise.

 

Also kindly advise how should I apply Chapter 19, s.140A details amendments made by the CCA 2006, to the CCA1974.

 

Hope u r not getting annoyed asking u so many questions.

Thank again for your time and avice.

[jason_mnm]

what Natwest is saying that they agree to my token payments for one year with CCJ but with tomlin order. Shall I agree to this or not. Should I take my case to OFT..

[jason_mnm]

Also to let you know as per agreements it says that loan £25k was given for personal expenses..

[slick132]

Hi Jason,

 

Do you own or rent your home.

 

There are some major decisions which you have to take and I'm not experienced enough to simply advise you do one thing or another.

 

I will try and get some further input here for you, from peeps with more experience than I.

 

Tell me to butt out if you want, but is your wife aware of the debts you have and of the court action being taken.

[slick132]

Need some more info here:-

 

Re the court claim received:-

 

1. When issued

 

2. Where issued

 

3. What's the Claimants Particulars of Claim

 

4. What date is the defence due

 

5. Apart from acknowledging the claim, have you done anything else.

 

6. Have you sent bank a SAR (for all data) or a CCA request (for copy of loan agreement).

Edited October 20, 2009 by slick132

[jason_mnm]

Thanks for your help again.

 

Followings are reply in order:

 

1. Issued on 21 Sept 2009

2.Northampton (CCBC) County Court

3. Natwest Westminister Bank Plc, Credit Mgmgt Services, Kendal Court, Telford TF3 4DT,

3. Defence due on 23rd Oct 2009

4. Apart from acknowledging

I have talked to Natwest and they agreed my repayment offer

but they want new agreements through court with a Tomlin order so that it does not affect my career.

 

However they said if I miss one payments the judgement will be enter automatically

in which case I will lose my membership of professional body and also job.

Means my whole life will be destroyed.

They said they will ask the court to hold till sign the new contract

 

5. As I am scared if I ask for CCA they may decline to the new agreements they said they want me to sign, I

have not ask them CCA or anything other than requesting to stop court action.

But they said they will do the new agreements through court and with Tomlin order.

 

I am eagerly waiting for your kind reply...

If you have time please read all I posted to know the full story.

.. Thanks again..

[jason_mnm]

No I have not talked to my wife.. that's why it is getting difficult for me.. moreover she is pregnant.. so I do not want to tell her...

[jason_mnm]

For your first question

Edited January 10, 2010 by jason_mnm
short

[slick132]

Hi Jason,

 

Re Claimant's Particulars of Claim, this is what is stated on the court claim you received. Please confirm what they say as their PoC against you.

[jason_mnm]

Thanks for your prompt reply. It sayd: '' The claimants claim is in respect of monies due pursuant to an account maintained with the claimant. and the claimant claim 1. £34,547''

 

Please note I took only £25k and they have added next ten years interest as I was told by Natwest person.. My original agreements was for ten years from March 2008.

[slick132]

Jason,

 

You have to decide if you want to:-

 

1. Agree to their offer to accept your payments on their terms with the threat of action if you fail to keep up the repayments.

 

2. Try and defend against the claim.

 

If you want to defend, you could do so, initially on the basis of their "claim not being adequately particularised". You could used the "embarrassed" defence.

 

This would give you time to research properly about "Unfair Relationship", whether they have an enforceable credit agreement (even though it's post-April 2007), whether there are penalty charges on the account which should be reclaimed, etc.

 

Time is, of course, a major issue here, coupled with the fact that, to defend against them, you are worried they'll not accept your payments offer and go for CCJ and damage your career.

[slick132]

See here for example of Embarrassed defence, where Claimants PoC is vague - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/218986-rci-finance-ccj.html#post2510098

[jason_mnm]

Thanks for your reply again for which I have been waiting since morning but I was in office and could not open it.

 

Do u think that Natwest gave me loan when they had opportunity to check from my credit file

that I already have huge debt and they should not have given me is enough to win the case.

 

Also what if I agree to their new agreements and then research the case

and if the case in my favour I can try to get back to court

saying that time I was scared of my career and that's why I agreed then and now I want to defend it.

 

Do u think will then court will look at everything and be on favour of me.

 

Also as they said they have set aside the case till I sign it

..but I have no proof if they have done so..

do u think I should write to court today informing then with all the things happening.

..please advise...

Thanks again u been so nice..

[jason_mnm]

Wish u could kindly reply tonight

[jason_mnm]

Also please note

on the claim form they have given my worng postcode such as my postcode is SL06 4RT,

But in the claim form it is wirtten SL06 4RE.

When I called Incasso they said the postcode I am saying worng but actually they are wrong.

 

Also do u think as there is postal strike now,

should i sent an email to Northamton County Court:

CCBCDefendantEnquiries@hmcourts-service.gsi.gov.uk

explaining that I was told by Incasso that they have said they are supposed to set aside the case

and if they have not, will the court kindly set aside till I hear from them.

 

The phone line is very difficult to get through.

[slick132]

Hi Jason,

 

The court will decide if the case is to continue or not, based on any representations from either side.

 

If you fail to enter a defence, the bank will be at liberty to ask for judgement against you. They may, as you suggest, ask that the proceedings be suspended so long as you maintain the agreed payments. However, they may not.

 

My advice is that you use the "embarrassed" defence which I linked earlier. At least this keeps your options open.

 

I don't think you should rely on the bank to do what they have suggested, as they may simply do what is best for them.

 

Do u think that NatWest gave me loan when they had opportunity to check from my credit file that I already have huge debt and they should not have given me is enough to win the case.

No, I think a judge would have to consider your actions in the matter as well as the banks. The bank may have lent you money recklessly, considering your financial situation, but you took the money and have to accept some responsibility.

 

However, if you lodge a simple defence just now, this will give you valuable time to consider your options and to prepare a case against the bank on the basis of "Unfair Relationship", or any other matters that will help you.

[slick132]

If you decide to continue by defending, read this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html - about how to use CPR31.14 to get info from the bank such as:-

 

Credit agreement

Info on penalty charges made to the account

Default Notice

Etc