Euro Car Parking

[topcat1802]

Hi

 

I received the usual speculative invoice, and threats of court action, etc. But because I read these forums I have always ignored the letters.

 

I have now received yet another one this morning from Control Accounts, headed Letter before action, demanding the usual £145 with the usual threats.

 

They end the letter by asking me to submit my defence to them directly (as if I would until I actually had to)

 

I can't wait for my day in court, it would be quite interesting - I have my questions lined up they are as follows

1. what is the purpose of the parking control at the designated location

2. what are the opening times of the show for which the parking controls are being enforced

3. what was the date and time of the issue of the invoice.

 

I can answer the questions for them

1 to provide parking spaces for customer of the shop.

2. 9am to 6pm Monday to Saturday

3. 6.01pm

 

Oh dear they seem to have overlooked the fact that the shop in question was actually SHUT when they send me their little invoice. Since the shop was shut their losses were precisely how much - I don't even need a calculator to work that one out - £0.00.

 

I wonder what magic they use to turn £0.00 into £140?

[renegadeimp]

Their losses would be zero even if it was open.

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

Okay here is a letter to send Euro Car Parks Ltd (send a copy to the debt collectors with a short covering letter saying 'please find enclosed a copy of a letter to your Principal dated xxxx the contents of which are self explanatory') (from daisy (retired solicitor) on mse)

 

ADDRESS

DATE

 

Dear Sirs

 

PCN number xxxxxxx

Vehicle registration number xxxx

 

'I have received a letter from Control Account plc dated xxxx, in which they inform me that they are instructed to act as agent on behalf of your company in issuing legal proceedings against me in respect of a 'parking event' which is alleged to have occurred on [datexxxx] (copy letter enclosed for your information).

 

As you will see your agent's letter implies that it is instructed to act on your behalf in court proceedings. In particularly, it lists various documents that 'we may rely on in court'. As I am sure you are aware, only solicitors have rights of audience to represent a client in court. I should therefore be grateful to receive your confirmation, by return, that Control Account plc is indeed a legitimate firm of solicitors - bearing in mind that it is a criminal offence to wrongfully pretend to be acting in the capacity of a solicitor - and also considering that your company, as principal, is jointly and severally liable for the actions of its agent.

 

Alternatively, if you were previously unaware of the actions of your agent, you now have the opportunity to redress the matter by cancelling the parking charge against me, and instructing your agent to cease and desist from contacting me in connection with this matter.

 

Please note, I require your full and detailed reply within 14 days of the date of this letter. If I do not hear from you by then, I shall forward this letter and the letter from your agent, to the Solicitors Regulation Authority for investigation.

 

Finally, if this letter has indeed been written on your instruction, and it remains your intention to proceed with this matter notwithstanding the matters raised in the paragraphs above, please forward a fully compliant Letter Before Claim and I shall deal with it as required under the Practice Direction.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

PRINT NAME

 

cc Control Account plc

[Homer67]

I would not send that letter at all, let them put their money where their mouth is and don't give them any information that you are clued up about these unenforceable invoices

 

that letter contains some information that is not needed by the PPC and why would you send anything to the DCA? Never communicate with them at all other than to say 'Any alleged debt is denied, refer to your client'

 

There are excellent template letters that are tried and tested and I strongly recommend you use one of those if you want to respond at all rather than the letter above.

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

Homer that letter comes from the horses mouth. It is from an experienced solicitor.

 

It's time the advice given on cag was updated as well as peoples entranced views against popla.

 

So yes you are well advised to send that. If you are not sure cross post on mse/pepipoo and see where the opinion lies

 

 

Homer as your advising them to put their money where their mouth is are uhappy to put your hand in your pocket if your advice proves costly

[renegadeimp]

Define updated because it really makes no difference. Sure, POPLA costs them and the decision is binding, but to some people its more fun to watch the PPC get excited to go to court, and then lose big time.

 

I guess it all depends on your viewpoint. But one thing is for sure, the more varied advice, the better. Remember, we are here to provide options for various people with problems. We shouldnt tell them " you MUST do this", unless it is serious, for instance a court claim, or bailiff action etc.

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

Define updated because it really makes no difference. Sure, POPLA costs them and the decision is binding, but to some people its more fun to watch the PPC get excited to go to court, and then lose big time.

 

I guess it all depends on your viewpoint. But one thing is for sure, the more varied advice, the better. Remember, we are here to provide options for various people with problems. We shouldnt tell them " you MUST do this", unless it is serious, for instance a court claim, or bailiff action etc.

 

Lose big time? again what you are doing is giving all the advice without putting your hands in your pocket or actually getting invovled in any hearings.

 

I have no issue with people having different view points, thats how things should be BUT i dont think its right that people should be given the false impression that they will beat the PPC big time when we know thats not always the case. You win some you loose some,

 

As you have not been inside a county court and actually seen how the process works and seen how judges see these things then i think your advice is a little skewed. I have helped many people where the have been really good defences and on paper should have won by a country mile but the judge took a different view.

 

County courts can be quite a lottery. Popla is the way to go and its "RISK" free.

 

Dont forget its not *YOU* taking the risk. Where people are not really prepared to take this risk (parking eye pefect example) then its worth offering to cover costs.

[themagician]

kirkbyinfurnesslad

Quote.

 

I have helped many people where the have been really good defences and on paper should have won by a country mile but the judge took a different view.

can you enlighten us on how many and Who you have helped and to what conclusion ????.

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

Over the last 5 years I have been 40 times in the county court.

 

13 of those have been awarded to the claimant

20 awarded to defendant

7 no shows

[Surfer01]

kirkbyinfurnesslad

Quote.

 

I have helped many people where the have been really good defences and on paper should have won by a country mile but the judge took a different view.

can you enlighten us on how many and Who you have helped and to what conclusion ????.

 

If you ignore them long enough, they will eventually go away and offer their poor advice elsewhere.

[renegadeimp]

County courts can be quite a lottery

 

Really? The courts have to follow the law. THe law says that for a PPC to issue a charge they must show that the charge is an approximate value of their losses. Since the charge is nothing liek the true value of their losses, the cases get thrown out pretty much immediately. The ones that dont are the ones where the judges lack knowledge in this area, or the ones where the defence is woefully inadequate. Hell, there have even been people claiming they are 'freemen of the land' to try and get out of it.

 

In short, you dont need to go anywhere near a courtroom to know what will happen.

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

Really? The courts have to follow the law. THe law says that for a PPC to issue a charge they must show that the charge is an approximate value of their losses. Since the charge is nothing liek the true value of their losses, the cases get thrown out pretty much immediately. The ones that dont are the ones where the judges lack knowledge in this area, or the ones where the defence is woefully inadequate. Hell, there have even been people claiming they are 'freemen of the land' to try and get out of it.

 

In short, you dont need to go anywhere near a courtroom to know what will happen.

 

that really shows your complete lack of knowledge of how the court works.

 

You speak without any experiance what so ever.

 

I don't want any ppc to win.

 

Why dont u get a ppc ticket say cps or parking eye ,let it go to a hearing see how you get on?

[renegadeimp]

Ive had PLENTY of tickets from private car parks. I live on the outskirts of chester and regularly travel to liverpool/manchester and birmingham for work. To avoid the council car park charges, i park in the shopping centre bays for an hour while i do a quick job. Theyve tried to have me a few times. Not once have they succeeded.

 

As i have already said, they MUST justify the charge they levy on a driver in court. They cannot do so. They lose. Do you understand that? It has happened with me and many MANY others. hell, we have a forum member that DELIBERATELY parks in specific car parks to get tickets and take them to court to show they cant be claimed.

 

WHile your responses do have some reasoning behind them, they are very concerning.

[themagician]

that really shows your complete lack of knowledge of how the court works.

 

You speak without any experiance what so ever.

 

I don't want any ppc to win.

 

Why dont u get a ppc ticket say cps or parking eye ,let it go to a hearing see how you get on?

 

cheers, got one! that was nearly 12 months ago to date,now if they are all above board and right in there legality,then why does parking eye still keep sending me begging letters instead of going straight in to the county court system???.

please bring on your hearing,and no more begging letters ,I keep welling up inside with fear.

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

I am not doubting that most ppcs will never see the inside of a court.

 

We all know why etc. I also get lots of tickets to I dont doubt your knowledge on ppcs etc.

 

my main point is your advising on what will happen in court when you have no experience what so ever. Yet you claim to know it will work. Now that makes no sense what so ever.

[themagician]

Over the last 5 years I have been 40 times in the county court.

 

13 of those have been awarded to the claimant

20 awarded to defendant

7 no shows

these are just figures,same as the speculative invoice amounts,proof is needed, how many caggers have you been to court and helped win/lose and can they confirm this??. if any.

And mostly the cases PPC win is only because they are undefended by the general public with no knowledge of the C.A.G site and there belief that people like P.E are telling the truth!,but as we all know that ain't so.

Edited September 25, 2013 by themagician

[Surfer01]

I am not doubting that most ppcs will never see the inside of a court.

 

We all know why etc. I also get lots of tickets to I dont doubt your knowledge on ppcs etc.

 

my main point is your advising on what will happen in court when you have no experience what so ever. Yet you claim to know it will work. Now that makes no sense what so ever.

 

I think you are assuming that most of us have never had an invoice from a PPC or been inside a court room?

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

I think you are assuming that most of us have never had an invoice from a PPC or been inside a court room?

 

I am saying that most of those who say it will just get thrown out in court have no experience in the court process

[Homer67]

Homer that letter comes from the horses mouth. It is from an experienced solicitor.

 

It's time the advice given on cag was updated as well as peoples entranced views against popla.

 

So yes you are well advised to send that. If you are not sure cross post on mse/pepipoo and see where the opinion lies

 

 

Homer as your advising them to put their money where their mouth is are u happy to put your hand in your pocket if your advice proves costly

 

 

Utter claptrap and you know it.

 

The OP is not advised to send that letter as there are far better letters in the templates which do not lead the PPC and give them unnecessary information

 

My advice is given freely and is based on real life experiences of batting off these unenforceable invoices

 

Everyone has something to bring to a debate and in your case the thing you should bring is your absence

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

Why are people on cag so entrenched with their views?

 

Does your advice extend to defending any claim in the court? I doubt it.

 

Why are people so against popla? It's so easy to win at it. Costing the ppc Money and killing the process dead.

[Scouse Magic]

Have been watching this with great intrest.....

 

As you all know, I am a lay person and hold down a full time job (Not as a solicitor) but I have seen the inside of a county court room and I know how they approach these things and won and made the claimant's representatives look like fools, and I was never even issued with a PCN.

 

Although I won £129 I paid more than that for the official court transcripts and they were posted....

 

I have seen other forums (no need to mention them) but CAG for me was the most fairest, most balanced and bang on the money !

 

People like Homer, DCB, Croc Doc, Renegadeimp, the list is endless, their advise is excellent.

 

Why should they put their hands in their pocket if a ppc win, you take your advise and then you use it to weigh up how you wish to proceeed......You can Pay Up, go through popla or go to court and do your best and your best should win !!

 

Don't ever forget ppc's / debt collectors patroll every site to gather information, that is part of the employment contract....

 

Whilst I respect the views of kirbyinfernasslad who is entitled to their view, it would be beneficial if he could post up some court transcripts to clarify the figures he presents here today.

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

Indeed you did scouse beat Sobbell. And a good win it was to

 

The reason i state people should put their hands in their pockets is thus:

 

If people are telling others that a court victory is an assured and certain thing then they are seriously deluded and have never been inside a court room (unlike yourself). If as a result of this poor advice people loose then yes i think people should put their money where their mouth is.

 

I think people should be advised that yes they certainly "can" win at Court but its not certain and they should be aware of what they will be liable to pay if they loose. That seems like a much more balanced view rather then thinking a defence is going to see of any claim.

 

Now people are free as you say to do what they like with their advice but the advice needs to be more balanced then i think it is on CAG espcially round Parking eye.

 

With regards to transcripts if you wish to dip you hand in your pocket i will happily obtain a selection for you:) As you will know court transcripts are not cheap and most defendants (who win or loose) wont normally go to the expense of obtaining them unless the is a specific reason

[Scouse Magic]

Hiya thanks for that....

 

Indeed transcripts are costly....The reason I got mine is I was advised on other sites that Sobell / Roxburghe never do court, and as far as I can see, mine is the only evidence where he actually turned up so that in itself is probably a one off, but because I stated that I won, other sites called me deluded..

 

I think the problem here is that you have stated wins, loses and no shows etc, and there seems to be an argument situation with other posters regarding your advice and your claims......

 

It may well be the fact that you have won some cases and lost some, what the circumstances were, we will never know without a transcript.

 

I cannot put my hand in my pocket to view one of your transcripts because I have no reason to believe you or disbelieve you.......

 

The fact of the matter is, the law is the law, and if people seeking advice on what the law states they will win if defended correctly because what these companies and debt collectors are doing in illegal.....

 

Mine is a classic example...Sobell stated that he represented the claimant (A hospital) which all looks good on paper, but the fact is, he was represnting Roxburghe not a Hospital, and when he got stuffed I got a payment letter from Graham White stating "Please find enclosed a cheque for defending our client's claim" and the cheque was from Roxburghe not the claimant !!!!!

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

I think the problem was scouse was your "intial presentation"

 

I am actually in Leicester county court helping someone with a CEL case on Friday!

[Scouse Magic]

I think the problem was scouse was your "intial presentation"

 

I am actually in Leicester county court helping someone with a CEL case on Friday!

 

Well then all I will say is that I am not legal and 2 court cases to nil aint bad with an unbeaten record so far, and I have posted a court case which confirms that......

 

I would like to draw your attention to a post on here where you give advice to mummsey regarding an issue with PE where they ask for £60 admin to settle out of Court......your advice states this.........

Re: Parking eye court papers !!!!!!!

 

"Mummsey you will end up having a court hearing unless u try and settle for costs"

 

 

Now then how the hell can anyone justify £60 as being admin ? £2.50 DVLA cost (although they might have a free link) the odd 60p letter and even if PE did pay £15 to issue a claim in Northampton, that is at their own risk not the defendant.

 

Whilst I repect your views which you are perfectly entitled to, I would suggest it would be helpful to ask you to post up some of your court judgments of which you have won ( they are free), as you seem a busy person helping others.......

 

I for one would take the various great advice on here and proceed to court as an individual and I would win.