Setting aside settled CCJ

[loopyonion]

Hi, First poster, long time reader

 

As in the title, I had a CCJ that was issued in joint names in 2011, and it was settled last month. The CRA's have been registered as settled, and all checks out ok.(EXPERIAN/EQUIFAX)

 

My mortgage with Santander was due for renewal, and, things being tight financially, I cannot afford any more monthly cost.

 

Santander had informed me, that i was due to go on the Standard rate etc, extra £140 a month on my payments, as they could not offer a more attractive rate due to CCJ history being on there. My previous credit searches are squeaky clean, not one missed anything, in 6 years.

 

So, myself and the ex-business partner agreed to pay off the CCJ (last month), we did so, and the courts ect all logged the information.

 

The CCJ was for an HP agreement on some equipment for a business which failed when the financial market went belly up a few years back. When payements could not be made anymore, we had no option but to let this happen.

 

Facts:-

 

The CCJ was issued, as my business partner at the time, refused to pay his half of the debt on the outstanding monies.

 

When this CCJ was issued, he only recieved some, but not all of the paperwork.

 

The creditor agreed verbally that he could have this agreement set aside if we paid it early. We did, he then found his legal team would not permit this, and that in their eyes, it was issued correctly.

 

Speaking to the court this last week, they said if it was satisfied, and they creditors agreed, £40 would

see the N244 form sorted out, and actioned.

 

I have contacted the creditor again, to plead that they could issue an aggreement to set aside. - im

awaiting on this.

 

If creditor does not agree, I will have send a N244 form that cost £85.

 

This will be on the basis of the following.:-

 

• We negotiated and accepted an out of court settlement , and repayment structure preceding correspondence dated 7th July 2011 between Mr A, Mr B, and creditor. This was accepted by creditor, the letter noted the payments would be £60pm

 

• The first payment under the “out of court agreement” for £60 that was accepted, had been made by us, and received by creditor before the 1th September 2011, as that was the deadline stated for the “failure to respond will result in judgement being requested”.

 

 

However,

• On examination, the N1 claim form was signed, and dated by creditor 1st July 2011.
  
• Mr A received a reply from creditor regarding our repayment plan dated 16th August 2011.
  
• The N1 claim form is dated as issued 4th July 2011.
  
• The Judgement was issued on the 7th October 2011
  
• On collation of our received documents from creditor and Reigate County Court, between Mr A and Mr B, covering the time period in question, the following items were not received.
  
• Mr A is missing one letter from creditor, dated 15th September, regarding the deadline of 1st Sept 11. A copy of this letter was emailed to Mr A from Mr B, so I could act upon it, during the week between offshore shifts. By then, the claim had unfortunately been put in motion. Offshore conditions and facilities are simply floating prison cells, with harder work Any outside comunications are simply rare.
  
• Mr A can confirm that he has not received a N9 response pack from the courts, or a default notice from creditor.
  
• During the time of issue of documentation,Mr A was at the correct address held by the courts, and creditor
  
• As no letters were sent recorded delivery, from the courts or creditor, we have no way of verifying the whereabouts of missing documentation. If all the correspondence had successfully made it through Royal Mail, this situation would have been so much different, and avoided immediately
  

In a nutshell, we submitted our financial in/out to creditor, we agreed a payment amount, and term. And started paying. They had a CCJ in place before before we had started to pay them, and whilst we were paying them, and also incurring court fees.

 

Yet, they accepted payments.?

Would this be a good grounding for an N244?

Im hoping you can help, or knows someone who can assist with advice.

 

There is also a formal complaint lodged with santander, as I was informed that the underwriter would look at the case, as there are exceptional circumstances. Yet, after 1 month of hoop jumping, They say NO anyway.

 

There is also the possibility that this amount, contained an insurance premium, to cover theft of the equipment that the agreement covered.

 

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this.

Cheers

 

Loops:)

[renegadeimp]

If you have acknowledged teh CCJ, paid it, got a satisfaction certificate from the courts etc etc, then there is pretty much no chance of you getting it set aside, as you have admitted the debt and indeed paid the court order off.

 

The only other way of removing it would be if you paid it off within 30 days of judgement. It would then not be recorded.

[loopyonion]

Yes, I have seen this before, however, I was looking at these guidleines below:-

 

• Fraud and Identity theft. Somebody used your name or address to obtain credit, which resulted in a County Court judgement without you knowing.
  
• Not given 28 days notice to pay.
  
• Incorrect address when the summons and judgement took place.
  
• Summons not received, not sent by recorded mail.
  
• Unable to attend court and defend yourself.
  
• The judgement should not appear on the credit files if it debt was settled within 28 days.
  
• In case of agreement to settle 'out of court' with the plaintiff, you should not have received a Judgement.
  
• If you did not receive any notification of the judgement/s made against you, then you can appeal.
  
• Acceptance of full amount of the judgement at the time, but now only agree partially
  
• Summons taken out against both yourself and another person jointly one only one party received summons
  
• Inavailability /out of the country, etc between the issue of the summons and entry of the judgement.
  
• Summons received late, so not given 21 days to reply to the court. If the summons was 21 days late then the judgement would have already been made.
  

Specifically, the fact we negotiated a settlement, which we started to pay. In the meantime, they had issued a claim in the background.

 

Am I barking up the wrong tree ? The creditor and I are very amicable, but, there hands may be tied to to legal teams intervention.

 

Even with there blessing, and signed letter, would it be possible to set aside?

[loopyonion]

As a further note, on Experian show me as excellent, with no negetive factors?

 

Yet, Santander see me as a risk? no defaults, no missed payments, no anything.

 

Just a satisfied CCJ? what on gods earth are they CRA's in existence for ?

[renegadeimp]

Yes, I have seen this before, however, I was looking at these guidleines below:-

 

• Fraud and Identity theft. Somebody used your name or address to obtain credit, which resulted in a County Court judgement without you knowing. You paid it, you admitted it. This is a no go.
  
• Not given 28 days notice to pay. When the CCJ is granted, the letter gets sent out giving you 28 days to pay. Not to mention all previous paperwork that was sent.
  
• Incorrect address when the summons and judgement took place. This can only be challenged if you gave the creditor proof of a new address, otherwise they would be allowed to continue as to their knowledge, you still reside at the address you have on file
  
• Summons not received, not sent by recorded mail. There is no requirement to send it by recorded delivery. The summons is sent directly from northampton to the address the claimant gave.
  
• Unable to attend court and defend yourself. This is also a no go. You can defend through a letter, or have the hearing transferred to your nearest court. You cna also ask for it to be suspended until a date where you can be at a court
  
• The judgement should not appear on the credit files if it debt was settled within 28 days. Correct
  
• In case of agreement to settle 'out of court' with the plaintiff, you should not have received a Judgement. Correct, but you still need to go through the claim process and tell the court that. Too many claimants tell you they will agree, but continue the CCJ claim.
  
• If you did not receive any notification of the judgement/s made against you, then you can appeal. You can appeal, but you would need good reason to, and even then it would be up to a judge to allow the appeal.
  
• Acceptance of full amount of the judgement at the time, but now only agree partially. Partial or full admittance, it doesnt matter. You are still admitting the debt. If you admit it and it goes to a judge, the CCJ will automatically be granted.
  
• Summons taken out against both yourself and another person jointly one only one party received summons
  
• Inavailability /out of the country, etc between the issue of the summons and entry of the judgement. Would not matter. Unless you are on military business or government business, it is not the courts problem that you would be out of the country. You can ask for the hearing to be postponed until a later date however.
  
• Summons received late, so not given 21 days to reply to the court. If the summons was 21 days late then the judgement would have already been made. This is VERY rare. The claim forms/summons are usually sent immediately and arrive at the address within 2-3 days.
  

Specifically, the fact we negotiated a settlement, which we started to pay. In the meantime, they had issued a claim in the background.

 

Am I barking up the wrong tree ? The creditor and I are very amicable, but, there hands may be tied to to legal teams intervention.

 

Even with there blessing, and signed letter, would it be possible to set aside?

 

 

My answers in red.

 

Specifically, the fact we negotiated a settlement, which we started to pay. In the meantime, they had issued a claim in the background.

 

See point 7

[loopyonion]

"In case of agreement to settle 'out of court' with the plaintiff, you should not have received a Judgement. Correct, but you still need to go through the claim process and tell the court that. Too many claimants tell you they will agree, but continue the CCJ claim."

Can you clarify this please Renagadeimp?

 

I have documented proof that this IS the case with signed and dated letters.

[renegadeimp]

If you have recieved the claim forms, but the claimant has told you they are willing to settle out of court, then you need to inform the court and ensure you get written confirmation from the courts. As you found out, claimants like to go behind your back and still register a CCJ, purely out of spite and because they know they have just screwed up your credit file for 6 years.

[Ganymede]

I assume when you got the Claim Form you filled on the Admission form with an offer of monthly repayments?

 

If so the CCJ was correctly issued and there is nothing you can do about it.

[loopyonion]

No,

 

No admission form was filled out, as foolishly thought that by paying the agreed out of court settlements, would stop any ccj progression.

 

Depression and anxiety, and denial.. not the best tools to deal with these type of events.

[renegadeimp]

DId you recieve the initial claim form though?

[renegadeimp]

One other question. Was this debt paid for in the arranged installments, BEFORE the 28 days were up after judgement? If so, then you could have a get out that way.

[loopyonion]

DId you recieve the initial claim form though?

 

Only 1 of us out of the two on the claim form received it.

[loopyonion]

One other question. Was this debt paid for in the arranged installments, BEFORE the 28 days were up after judgement? If so, then you could have a get out that way.

 

Payments were made before, and after the judgement, as the agreed amount.

[renegadeimp]

So it sounds like the creditor was making a mockery of the legal system.

 

Can i ask, did you get this agreement in writing from them where, if you paid as they wanted, they would cease court action? if it was verbally, then im afraid, they have done exactly what i stated previously.

[loopyonion]

So it sounds like the creditor was making a mockery of the legal system.

 

Can i ask, did you get this agreement in writing from them where, if you paid as they wanted, they would cease court action? if it was verbally, then im afraid, they have done exactly what i stated previously.

 

The letter says, if payment not received by X date, then judgement will be requested.

 

The first installment was paid before that date, and the claim form stamped by the court months before that even

 

The claim was well underway, while we were negotiating figures and terms.

[loopyonion]

Letter was in writing, letterhead and signed.

[renegadeimp]

Was that the actual repayment plan?

 

he first installment was paid before that date, and the claim form stamped by the court months before that even

 

The claim was well underway, while we were negotiating figures and terms.

 

So they did sneak a CCJ in through the back door.

[loopyonion]

Yes.. I asked them about it, as I asked for co-operation from them, if I sent a N244 on these grounds. 2 Days later, there legal team said no, as it issued correctly.

 

Since then, Ive been looking at the dates, and possible information to have this set aside.

 

Im hoping an N244 filled out, with a list of chronological sorted events would be a decent enough argument given the way it was issued.

 

If im lucky enough to get co-operation by way of a letter to say "we agree to remove without contest".. id be pleasantly suprised.

[loopyonion]

Ok,

 

Little update, the company that issued the CCJ has informed me, that they will not voluntarily remove the "CCJ" from my record, as they see it as abuse of the legal system to do so. However, they have not said they would fight.

 

Santander, have been a bloody nightmare, and im now having to find an extra 100£ a month to cover a "base" rate mortgage.

 

Even though, my Experian shows 999 credit score, and NO negative or affecting factors, they will not offer any better rates.

 

My other bank, who I've been with for 20years, will not even quote me on a 50% LTV mortgage. Yet, never overdrawn in all that time.

 

I may have well just left the CCJ in place, and paid the instalments. Satisfying the damn thing has made no difference.

 

Formal complaints gone in against Santander, as one adviser last week informed me, I should "sell some stuff on eBay", to make the £100 extra I had to find each month.

 

I need to N244 this, and find the £85 to sort it.

 

My questions will be based on the first post above, based on the missing information from the courts, and the creditor at the time. And the fact that payments were made on an out of court agreement, whilst they were auctioning the CCJ in the background.

 

I can prove the payments, also the dates of our letters regarding payments terms, and personal financial information to justify what we could afford.

 

How can I prove that letters had not been received? ask for proof of postage or delivery?

 

Im sure the total sum the CCJ was for contained charges, and an insurance premium rolled into one.

 

How do I find this out, SAR? Even though its satisfied, I now don't agree with the figures.

 

Any assistance would be welcome.

[loopyonion]

As a quick thought, approaching the FOS, regards to the CCJ sneaked in, whilst paying out of court? would a ruling be of any benefit for a set aside?

 

Would an SAR set to the creditors show any charges, or insurance premiums which now mean that I DO NOT agree to the amount the CCJ was for?

 

Sorry for more questions, my back is against the wall here:!:

[Ganymede]

The letter says, if payment not received by X date, then judgement will be requested.

 

The first installment was paid before that date, and the claim form stamped by the court months before that even

 

The claim was well underway, while we were negotiating figures and terms.

 

 

 

What method did you use to pay?

 

Can you tell us the date you made the payment and the date it was due by?

[loopyonion]

The first payment/s were made paying cash direct into the bank, into their account.

 

My first payment was sent via cheque ( only the first one) of which they said they DID NOT receive, I used this method as I was working offshore for 2 weeks when the payment was due. 12 miles off the coast of the UK, mobiles don't tend to work, let alone internet access.

 

After they said they didnr receive it, they had standing order monthly online bank transfers, on the date.

 

They had payment/first instalment a good few days before date of final action they sent, of which I did not receive, only my business partner.

 

He says he has the paying in slip filed, and is looking for it.

 

The SAR in my name, and one for him should reveal this information.?

 

They've given it to me verbally, but that's not enough.

 

The other point Ive spotted is that, the CCJ was issued against US, as we were guarantors on an agreement for a limited company. Checking the information that was on the N9 claim form, I was the only signee on the garantor agreement, my partner at the time DID NOT sign?

 

So, with the courts issuing the CCJ against the both, His may not be legal.

 

If we also state this, as again, evidence to support, I hope to hell they don't just clear his off, and leave my satisfied mark in place. Especially when its not my fault.

 

Thanks again.

[Ganymede]

Thanks. So was your cheque that they say was never received ever cashed?

[loopyonion]

Nope, never, they swore they didn't receive it, after I spoke to them ( as my business partner had text me, to say they hadn't received funds. He also offered to pay the alleged missing part, however, they didn't accept), they were paid by card on the phone at that time by myself. By then the CCJ was enforced. They played it well.

 

What is even more strange, is that during the course of the payments, I paid 2 years of instalments, my partner paid about 6 months worth, and stopped.

 

So, my payments was the only thing keeping the wolves from the door, yet, they didn't jump on this, and come after him/us.

 

Either that was goodwill, or they know they could not enforce his side, due to there being no signed contract from him.

 

messy huh?

[Ganymede]

Yeah it is.

 

Was the cheque not sent recorded/special delivery?