TK Max/RLP have accused me of ticket-switching on 3 occasions in order to profit - help

[carter.liver]

Hi dx100uk.

I also am in a similar situation where TK Maxx have accused me of ticket-switching on 3 occasions in order to profit.

 

The police were called and I was arrested and charged with obtaining goods by deception but after being interviewed at the station no further action was taken.

 

There was no theft however and the security staff said that all items involved were from TK Maxx. it was a genuine mistake after wearing items at home I then returned them

- all their tags are very non-specific so its hard to tell which tags are for which garments.

 

I now have RLP chasing me.

 

After their first letter I (perhaps stupidly) replied and told them it was an error and I had not profited - what I had told the police.

 

Now they have sent another letter quoting Aerospace Publishing v Thames Water Utilities (2007) as a precedent

and citing security staff costs and 'disruption to their business' as a basis for their demand.

 

They state that witness statement evidence demonstrating how my actions have have resulted in significant disruption to their client's business

will be prepared once court proceedings are initiated.

 

What should I do?

 

Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

own thread created

 

totally ignore them

 

they are not the police and can do nothing to you.

 

it would amusing to all if you scan up that letter please

 

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

[carter.liver]

Ok thanks for your fast response, will try and get a scan up of the two letters they have sent - just a bit wary as I have heard RLP monitor these sites! Shouldn't I reply to their second letter to challenge their statements regarding diversion of security personnel time and cost to their business - based on what I now know about the Oxford ruling in May 2012? Now I've acknowledged them once the CAB said there is a slim possibility they (after consulting with the retailer TK Maxx) will take me to Court since they have asserted that the Oxford decision doesn't set a legal precedent (according to CAB)?

[renegadeimp]

Rlp is run by a woman who really should be in a psych ward.

 

She thinks she is above the law and can do anything she likes. She will send you multiple letters with ever increasing threats then give up.

[carter.liver]

Letters uploaded.

 

Let me know your thoughts please

[carter.liver]

Thanks Renegade - just unsure whether to respond now I have already sent them a letter, seems to be some conflicting advice from CAB and internet forums

[renegadeimp]

Forget what the CAB says. We know this company VERY well. The CAB has to play it safe.

 

Just keep ignoring them or send them a one line letter stating "Any and all liability to you or your client is denied. No further communication will be entered into."

 

Jackie will keep sending you letters, but file them away incase you feel like pursuing a civil harassment case against her or her company.

[carter.liver]

OK thanks v much, appreciated. I'd heard that the Oxford case was the first in many thousands to make it to Court and the Judge ruled that they hadn't demonstrated their losses had arisen as a result of the incident with no right of appeal

[renegadeimp]

Oxford was the only properly defended case. RLP afterwards STILL ignored the ruling and tried to say the judge was wrong. On their own page they even make fun of the case and accuse everyone else of being wrong except them.

[dx100uk]

that's letter is pure bunkum

 

ignore them totally

 

they have no claim on you whatsoever in any gorm.

 

you said your piece...end off.

 

forget them and get on with your life.

 

dx

[carter.liver]

Thanks all for their comments, very much appreciated. If anyone has anything to add I would welcome their comments in the hope it might assist others in a similar situation.

[citizenB]

Carter, just have a read round the other RLP threads in this forum and you will get the picture and a pretty good idea of what you should and should not do.

[maxxer]

3 'offences' are just that - 3, completely separate items and occassions where items were returned that weren't what was purchased.

 

I agree with others - ignore rlp, they never take anyone to court. They tried, and they lost. If they thought they could make it work, they would take everyone to court they could.

 

Tk's had (even when I was there) loads and loads of cases of refund fraud. If you don't return what you purchased, with the same ticket and price on it, its fraud. You are decieving the cashier into believing the item was the original one you purchased by presenting it to them, with that receipt.

 

If the police have nfa'd it, then I would look into a solicitor and see if you have a case for false arrest etc - but having actually done the job myself, they always used to be watertight.

[2Grumpy]

The correct response on the first occasion would have been "I'm sorry, you have brought the wrong receipt for this item, even though it was the same price".

 

Instead, they appear to have made a record of what happened and were on the lookout on subsequent occasions.

 

It is even possible that if all 3 items were the same price that they have all 3 correct receipts, just presented on the wrong occasions.

 

This sounds like some kind of entrapment here, not pointing out mistakes at the time (whether they continued with the refund or not)

 

I wonder if they retained the evidence (item & receipt) to the correct standard to allow any sort of prosecution anyway.

 

I would be tempted to write back saying that TKM actions were appalling, that the police (correctly) took no action against yourself but in hindsight you regret not making a complaint against TKM, and that in the circumstances they should be offering you ten times what they are demanding

[2Grumpy]

I would be tempted to try something along the lines of:

Given that the police took no action against me and I refute any suggestion of wrongdoing, I require a full explanation from yourselves and your client of your actions, why you believed that an offense had been committed and all evidence that your client believes that it has.

 

I am sure that you will appreciate that what you see as a disruption to your clients business activities resulted in a much greater disruption to my life until the police realised that there was no case to answer. Unless you and your client can provide a particularly compelling explanation for their and your actions then I would suggest that you make an immediate payment of £xxxx as compensation for these unwarranted actions.

 

I suspect that you realise that this is much less than I would claim if I was forced to take this matter to court.

[maxxer]

The correct response on the first occasion would have been "I'm sorry, you have brought the wrong receipt for this item, even though it was the same price".

 

Instead, they appear to have made a record of what happened and were on the lookout on subsequent occasions.

 

It is even possible that if all 3 items were the same price that they have all 3 correct receipts, just presented on the wrong occasions.

 

This sounds like some kind of entrapment here, not pointing out mistakes at the time (whether they continued with the refund or not)

 

I wonder if they retained the evidence (item & receipt) to the correct standard to allow any sort of prosecution anyway.

 

I would be tempted to write back saying that TKM actions were appalling, that the police (correctly) took no action against yourself but in hindsight you regret not making a complaint against TKM, and that in the circumstances they should be offering you ten times what they are demanding

 

So, how exactly would the cashier, at the time, know the product being presented at the desk for a refund, by the honest customer, was not the item purchased ?

 

TK stores have an ancient till system - you buy a pillowcase, it says bedding. Not 'CK very expensive gold laid pillowcase' on the receipt.

 

The cashier accepts that you, the honest customer, has brought back the item you purchased on that receipt.

 

The cashier also accepts that the price sticker / item code sticker that is attached to the item you are bringing back is also still attached to the item you purchased, and that you haven't peeled it off, and stuck it to some old tat.

 

They are trained to think you are honest. Only if the facts present themselves to prove otherwise, will some investigation / action be taken.

 

Its a very stupid till system, but that doesn't make it right for people to bring stuff back which wasn't the stuff originally purchased. (or in most cases, even tk's stock).

 

If TK's are saying its their stock, but not the correct receipts or tickets, then there must be a price difference, a loss to tk maxx, for them to of dealt with the case.

 

Evidence wise - I used to do maybe 1 a month in our store, and we never got challenged in court about our evidence.

[dx100uk]

the ops not been back so don't stress over it people

 

dx

[CRblogger]

Now they have sent another letter quoting Aerospace Publishing v Thames Water Utilities (2007) as a precedent

and citing security staff costs and 'disruption to their business' as a basis for their demand.

 

They state that witness statement evidence demonstrating how my actions have have resulted in significant disruption to their client's business

will be prepared once court proceedings are initiated.

This would be kind of funny if it wasn't so impressively grotesque.

 

It was Aerospace v Thames that totally and utterly screwed RLP's in the reported Oxford case last year. Everything was admitted and the judge threw out the retailer's claim anyway, because of the same authority, which RLP until then had been swearing blind didn't matter.

 

The security staff claimed many hours of time, on which the judge apparently was sceptical as it didn't appear to tally with their own CCTV evidence. But that didn't matter anyway, because the judge ruled they can't claim security staff costs no matter what. Why? *Because* they're security staff and it's what they do as part of the business, therefore there is no disruption to the business. Now if the tellers had gone postal, abandoned their tills and come after you in a pack, *that* may have counted as disruption and you'd have to cough up say half an hour of minimum wages...

 

Apparently there was a great deal of witness evidence from senior people, all of which apparently was disbelieved or discounted. Why? Largely because, even where relevant, it became apparent that "witness statement evidence demonstrating... significant disruption to their client's business" had indeed "been prepared" - but evidently not by anyone who'd talked to the witnesses. One can only hope that RLP had not "prepared" it.

 

The witness evidence was largely for support where they didn't have solid evidence of time lost etc, so they also prepared estimates that they swore were genuine. This too seemed a bit fanciful. But even then it didn't matter if they were genuine or otherwise. Why? Because the judge ruled that, under Thames, estimates just don't cut it. So they were thrown out as well.

 

Then there was the value of the items. Those were all either dropped or thrown out... so even on those, which you'd think RLP would have a ghost of a chance on the civil burden of proof, they somehow failed anyway. You can almost feel sorry for RLP's client.

 

In the end it seems the judge ruled that the total amounts the defendants would have to cough up was... zero.

 

RLP's client asked for permission to appeal. And then... didn't appeal.

 

Well, you have to admire RLP's ... courage, in citing in their favour the very case that screw their clients over in court. So they've learned something. Perhaps not the right lesson. I wonder how many of their clients realise they're being set up for more court humiliation?