Rosendales Attended, Council Tax Debt

[chris223b]

Hi,

 

I have a Council Tax debt from last year which had a Warrant issued in March.

Can't argue about the debt, but I have not yet been able to start making repayments due to financial troubles.

 

I only moved to this area within the last year, and in the old area the LO followed a distinct pattern of letters that took place before the matter would leave the council's books.

 

About a month after the warrant, you'd be sent a very strongly worded letter giving you 14 days to pay.

About 2 months after that, you'd get a final warning that further collections activity would commence if you didn't arrange to pay within 14 days.

 

Rather stupidly, I assumed this was standard practice and so anticipated these letters would arrive to put the matter off for long enough for me to sort my finances out and pay them.

 

It seems the my new LO doesn't work that way (should've guessed really when they charge £85 for a court summons vs £60 where I used to live).

 

I had the summons issued, and today have come home to a hand delivered letter from Rossendales

(it was left hanging out of the letterbox so I've put it back there for obvious reasons),

with no warning at all that they were going to start bailiff action

(I also find it odd they're using Rossendales when they are an LA who have outsourced their admin to Capita)

 

Rossendales in their letter have stated that I can still pay by instalments with an initial payment of £50, but they haven't stated their costs.

 

I'm not going to attempt to avoid the debt,

but I want to make sure that I do not pay a penny more than necessary in bailiff's fees

and so want to be a bit more clued up before contacting them.

 

Can anyone confirm what the maximum fee should be for a single delivered letter,

if anyone with experience of know what instalments they are likely to take,

and whether an instalment plan with the bailiffs would be subject to a levy

(provided their costs are not insane, I can probably borrow the money to pay them off in full within a week or 2).

 

One thing I find a bit odd is the date of the warrant is printed on the letter,

but everything else is written on by hand (even saying it's for council tax is a tick box,

there are other options for Road Traffic debt etc).

It also has been stapled to something else at some time.

 

Although it's hand delivered, I'm almost the actual bailiff has not been here

- my car was parked outside (it's now been moved 5 miles away)

and my front facing windows were wide open all day

so the seizure which they apparently intended to do could easily have been done.

 

The full text of the letter is:

 

 

NOTICE OF BAILIFFS ATTENDANCE

 

 

MAGISTRATED LIABILITY ORDER / WARRANT OF EXECUTION DATED ------ FOR

 

 

UNPAID COUNCIL TAX

 

 

 

Re: Address: (my address)

 

 

Amount Due (amount due) PLUS COSTS

 

Payment should be made direct to the bailiff below to avoid unnecessary

action

 

I have attended today with the intention of seizing your goods and chattels

as are necessary to discharge the above debt.

 

If you cannot pay this amount in full you should be aware that even at this

late station with an initial payment of £50 you can still pay by

instalments.

 

 

To discuss the options open to you please contact me immediately on

--------

 

 

Failure to contact regarding this notice will result in further enforcement

action, which will incur further costs.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Mr. -------

(Bailiff in Charge)

[ploddertom]

Is the figure they are looking for the same as that confirmed by the Council? If not you need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

[ploddertom]

The chances are the letter was delivered by a "postman" for the Bailiff but they will still attempt to charge you £24-50 for the pleasure. If they attend again then they may charge another £18-00 providing they do not make a levy on your goods. No matter how many times they visit after theis they can charge no more as long as you deny them the opportunity to make a levy. Yes the offer of a payment plan will be conditional on you allowing him entry to seize goods.

 

You can of course make payment direct to the Council via online banking, Council website or automated phone but you may have to budget for lawful Bailiff fees.

[chris223b]

The amount due is correct, as I said above it's not something I can argue with and whilst I anticipated making a repayment plan with the council for it I could manage to borrow the amount within a couple of weeks so I can clear the debt itself. I would prefer to go down the route of paying the council directly and then arguing the toss with the bailiffs over their fees later. If I do that, what is likely to happen with Rossendales? Would they even get an update that the debt itself has been repaid and they can only chase me for fees, and what happens to the warrant itself once the debt is paid? Could they levy on fees alone?

[renegadeimp]

If you deal with the council direct, the only thing you need to do with rossendales is pay their visit fee. Nothing more. They will stamp their feet and threaten everything, but theres nothing they can do.

[chris223b]

So, I have managed to secure the funds to pay off the debt in full on Friday, along with the maximum of £42.50 in fees. I decided that I would contact the bailiff first to tell him when I could pay and find out how much he wants as if it was just debt+£42.50 then this is what I'd be paying anyway. He said he be happy if I paid on Friday but when I asked for the balance he quoted a figure which would amount to about £170 in charges. I asked him for a breakdown of these charges, he told me that he doesn't have it to hand, but he would have and would show me 'if he visits again', but if another visit is necessary this would be chargeable too. He then got nasty and told me that the only way to stop this bill getting any bigger is to pay what he asked for, and if I wanted to argue the charges I would need to do that after. I hung up on him, he didn't call back.

 

I decided what I would then do is pay the council directly and argue with the bailiffs about their fees after. I rang the council who stated that they could not accept payment directly from me as it has gone to bailiffs and that the matter must be sorted out with them. I said that I didn't think they could refuse payment if I'm offering to pay the debt in full and asked spent 10 minutes asking to speak to a manager and going round in circles before telling them that if they wouldn't accept payment in person or over the phone then I'd just them pay online, but either way I was going to pay them. I was then told that this wouldn't work and if I did pay online this would just be taken off this year's bill, not last year's which the bailiffs are trying to enforce.

 

Following a further few minutes of going round in circles arguing I hung up on the council too.

 

Can anyone confirm where I stand with paying the council online? Can they choose where to credit the amount (I'm sure I've seen things before which says payments are always applied to the oldest debt first), and what happens to the warrant itself once the debt is paid? I will happily pay the £42.50 to Rossendales and am willing to argue the toss over their £170 in charges, but do they still have a valid warrant if the debt itself is paid and only their fees are left outstanding? I'm up for the fight with them but I can't be dealing with months of parking my car in another town and checking the door before opening it in order to prevent them gaining a levy whilst this is being sorted.

[renegadeimp]

Pay the COUNCIL. NOT the bailiff. Use the reference for the old bill. They would be very silly to deduct it against this years.

[ploddertom]

Did you get the name of the person refusing payment. If so you can amke a formal complaint against them to the Council CEO. It is your choice when you make payment as to which year you are paying to - obviously if you say nothing it will be allocated to the present. As the Bailiff has not gained access to your home or otherwise made a levy I doubt whether he will call if he knows you are going to pay. However being forwarned over his fees I would send off for a breakdown and see what work of fiction comes back Send something similar to this initially via email followed by a copy in the post.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

[chris223b]

I have a first name for the person at the council who answered my call, followed by the first name of the 'team leader' who told me not to bother paying online as it would only get credited to this year.

 

Looks like online payment wouldn't be a wise move if I have no guarantees as to where the council would apply the payment.

 

I am planning a visit in person to the council on Friday to see if that yields better results.

[renegadeimp]

There should be a reference box when you pay online, or a place to add notes.

[chris223b]

So, this saga continues. I did pay the council tax debt in full and in person at the council, who finally accepted payment after much arguing when I asked her if she was authorised by the council to refuse payment of council tax owed to the council, and if so would she be prepared to put that in writing so that I could make a formal complaint to the CEO. She then decided that she would accept payment after all but stated on about 5 occasions that the council could not be held responsible if the bailiffs continue to pursue me.

 

Rossendales never replied to my request for a breakdown of fees, and the matter went quiet...until today.

 

I've just come home to the same hand delivered form I got back in may, this time claiming that I owe '£0.00 plus costs', this is still claimed to be under the authority of the warrant issued to the council for the council tax debt, rather than the bailiffs claiming by themselves.

 

Rossendales main number refused to do anything other than supply the mobile number of the bailiff. I've not called him but I have checked online and Rossendales are still claiming £172.50 in fees for this account (but have updated it to show £0 debt), which they have failed to supply a break down of.

 

I still have £42.50 to hand to cover the 1st+2nd visit fees but that's all I'm willing to pay them, and even then how can they pursue me under the Council's warrant when that warrant has been satisfied, would they not need their own warrant?

[unclebulgaria67]

Just pay them the £42.50 visit fees, as that is all they are entitled to. Once the liability order is satisfied, the warrant is no longer relevant. It would be up to Rossendales to issue a court claim against you for the fees, if they could justify them in court.