Probate help

[Bav3333]

Hi,

 

I am posting this on behalf of my Mum as my Dad passed away 2 weeks ago and she is just starting the requirements for probate etc. However, I have been helping her and come across something I need advice on.

 

My Dad was previously married but they divorced, with this they jointly owned a house with a mortgage and endowment policy.

 

As I understand that regardless of the will that states my Mum is sole beneficarcy his ex wife would inherit his half of the house. Though my question is the endownment policy had a death payment sum should either my dad or his ex wife die, who would be recipient of that or is it standard for the joint tenant be the named beneficiary.

 

Finally, whilst going through the paperwork, it would appear that my Dad's ex wife has borrowed more money on the mortgage without informing him as he would have said no at the time, is this an act of fraud and could it affect the probate as his estate would be jointly and severally liable for the debt, when it was increase without his knowledge or permission.

 

Thanks in advance

Edited May 10, 2013 by citizenB
formatting

[citizenB]

Righto..

 

As far as I understand it the Endowment policy will go to the mortgage provider to settle any outstanding mortgage. As for the rest, I wouldn't have thought the ex could have taken a loan without your Father's knowledge, especially if it were to be secured against the property. But I simply don't know for sure.

 

I will flag your thread for those on the site team who might know the answer to this. I am sure they will look in over the weekend.

[citizenB]

I wonder, is it possible for you to obtain more information in respect of the loan the ex took out. It seems to be a general consensus of opinion that your Father would have needed to sign the paperwork for the loan to be provided. You might be able to obtain this information from the mortgage company.

[Bav3333]

At this very second no, as we have notified the mortgage provider yesterday and won't hear back from their bereavement team until next week.

They did provide us with a set of figures that appear to be the original mortgage amount, arrears owe and an extra £5000 with fees on top.

This is not the first time his ex wife has done something similar and I am concerned that the signature on the paperwork will be false as my Dad would have said no. Yet his estate would be liable for a debt he did not want or incur.

[citizenB]

I would think if there was a fraudulent signature involved then I cant see the estate being made liable for the debt. But best wait for any paperwork in order to confirm this.

[slick132]

Hi Bav,

 

Ideally, matters relating to all joint assets and liabilities would have been resolved as part of the divorce settlement between the divorcing parties.

 

I assume this may not have happened for whatever reason, but please confirm what you know about this. In particular, are you certain YF was still named on the old mortgage and the property deeds as joint borrower and owner.

 

Any Endowment policy relating to the old matrimonial mortgage would usually pay direct to the mortgage company, to partially or fully settle the amount owed on the mortgage.

 

If you allege fraud may have been involved in any further advances after YF separated from his ex, this may be difficult to prove now although the dates of any further advance should be helpful in determining what YF knew about or was jointly responsible for.

 

[raydetinu]

As Slick says you may have to research the divorce and the finacial settlement that followed to see what the court agreed to regarding this property.

check the court papers or consult the the solicitor that handled the divorce.

It is normal to have a clean break with no remaining ties,particularly with insurances policies/pensions etc.

Who paid this mortgage and the insurance premiums?

[Bav3333]

I shall check the divorce settlement, however, as I understand at the moment there was nothing in any of the settlement paperwork in respect of the jointly owned property.

My father paid for the mortgage interest and premiums for 12 years when he split with ex wife to make sure that his children had a home to live in and then his ex wife paid the premiums and mortgage interest for the last 13 years as she was living in the house on her own.

[slick132]

Hi Bav,

 

Of all the subjects dealt with in a divorce settlement, the matrimonial home would surely be a priority. If the divorce was dealt with by solicitors, I'm sure the property would have been addressed.

 

However if, as you suggest, no mention was made of the property and the mortgage was paid by YF to ensure his children had a roof over their heads, this may simply have been an informal arrangement.

 

If YF took no action about the ppty during the 13 years when his ex wife paid the mortgage, it sounds like he basically gave up all rights or claim to it but WITHOUT formalising arrangements properly with solicitors, Land Registry, the mortgage company, etc.

 

I don't think YM is entitled to benefit in any way from the ppty that YF's ex wife lived in.

 

Similarly, if YF's ex wife took additional loans on the mortgage, that would be HER responsibility.

 

If YF failed to address these issues properly and legally at the time, I think you may have to take legal advice to get them resolved now.

 

[raydetinu]

absolutely, check with land registry ( you can do it on line) to see if any deed or note has been placed in respect of any bodies interest etc. that may have to be met if property sold.

and indeed if she is the sole owner or YF still has any equity in it.

did the will mention property speciffically?

Normally in a divorce the spouse cannot be a beneficiary of any insurance or pension unless specically written into the settlement i.e. the ex wife takes on the payments and is sole beneficiary.

If YF is still on the deeds then he still retains his share and it becomes an asset to his heirs.

You may need legal advice on this.

If further loans were taken out using the property as security and YF was on the deeds then he would have to agree to them in writing!

Edited May 15, 2013 by raydetinu

[Bav3333]

Thank you for all the help so far,

 

I have been through the divorce paperwork and there was no financial settlement as his ex wife refused to acknowledge the solicitors letters in respect of financial matters.

 

However, I have another problem with the endowment policy. My mum contacted Legal and General in respect of the documents/claim form etc who have refused to provide them, further Legal and General have said they would pay the money out to his ex wife despite the mortgage company or the will.

 

Now as I understand that as Executor of the estate she would need to see those documents as any money would have to be declared to HMRC for inheritance tax.

 

I am truly at a loss and now looking at solicitors to instruct to act on my mums behalf but wondered if anyone had any advice.

Edited May 21, 2013 by slick132
paragraphs !

[slick132]

Hi Bav,

 

Without knowing the terms of the endowment policy, we can't advise properly on what we think L&G should do with the policy proceeds.

 

If the policy is related to the mortgage loan, one would expect the proceeds to reduce the outstanding mgge balance. However, if the L&G pay the ex wife direct, this could leave YF's Estate owing more on the mgge than is fair.

 

In my opinion, it was inevitable that you'd have to involve a sol'r to sort this out. You should do this quickly to ensure that L&G direct the policy funds appropriately.

 

In the meantime, perhaps write to L&G saying there's a dispute and they should hold off making any payment under the insurance policy until your sol'r contacts them regarding YF's Estate and the outstanding mgge.

Edited May 21, 2013 by slick132
typo

[assisted blonde]

You can deal with a will and probate if its realativley simple however if there is an exwife and property involved you really need a solicitor