Disciplinary at work with Doctors note.

[Sam Hayward]

So at my workplace as with many others we have strict trigger points for non attendance and absence. Which rightly I appreciate as it's to ensure employees aren't going sick for a hangover or to go to a do or whatever. But nowhere is there any lenience for an employee who has genuinely been ill. Since I began working at my workplace I have had a lot of sickness(Possibly brought on by work in the 16 months) all backed up with medication and antibiotics I had proven I'd been given and in 2 cases now a doctors unfit to work form. Yet my employer doesn't see this as a reason to be off... I even had other colleagues asking me after I had returned to work having handed in my sick note, why I had time off when I wasn't ill and this has come from a managers mouth to the employees. Is this allowed, is a manager allowed to say on a presumption that when I had called in originally that I wasn't ill and throwing a 'sicky'?

 

But carrying on with the current matter. I have just returned to work after having 8 days off and that being 6 working days due to having a bad chest infection that rendered me unable to do anything as I had severe trouble breathing and was coughing up blood, so respectively my doctor signed me off for a week. I have returned to be told by 1 manager that another manager is going to have a word with me tomorrow informing me that a letter will be sent home for a disciplinary hearing again. As said, I've been ill before and have had this meeting and I was shocked that they could do this, not knowing if this is allowed as I was legally signed off as unfit for work. If they do give me a disciplinary whether it's informal, written, verbal warning perhaps even dismissal as that's what this company is like (Our staff turnover is around 50%).

 

What is the procedures over this kind of action I recently read up on ACAS's rules for disciplinary ect, and I found it interesting that to any disciplinary we have a right to appeal, which as of yet from 2 separate meetings was never told I could, I was never informed I can appeal to a disciplinary, is that grounds of which I can appeal to them now? or is a tribune more valid now?

 

Let me know what you think guys as I'm sure somehow they 48Hour relief period between letter being delivered and the meeting occurring as standard policy will go out the window and they'll try and get my in either tonight on shift or tomorrow.

 

Sam -

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I expect the forum guys will be along over the course of the day with advice for you, please bear with us until they're able to get here.

 

My best, HB

[assisted blonde]

In the 16months you have been employed how much time have you had off (with or without a fit note?) and what exactly is the companies policy on sickness (how much time off before you hit a trigger point)

[Sam Hayward]

Uhmm the exact number I would guess will be around 50 days? as I had 4 weeks off due to a broken thumb which as well was signed off along other sicknesses. And it's 3 sicknesses in 12 weeks, 4 occasions in 52 weeks or 2 seperate occasions in 14 days, and I have hit the 4 occasions I am aware but it seems they don;t believe I have had genuine excuses?, and I'm currently awaiting a date back from the hospital to confirm a day to go in and have tests done as I can't explain why I have been so ill soo often since I started, so they understand I'm having these tests to ensure there are no underlying health issues.

 

And even then the 50 days wouldn't always be working days as my schedual changes week by week so I probably only missed 30 days work. I understnad it's alot I'm trying my hardest to solve it but I just don't see how it's fair that I can face disciplinary action when I've always got a legitimate reason, and or note from the doctor. I feel as if they think I got my own pad at home ready to sign myself off whenever I want. And this goes along with the slander I'm hearing that someone and it has to have been a manager as they're the only people that were informed of my illness that I was faking it. And alot of staff and non staff were probing me with the question so surely thats defamation aswell?

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Sam -

[Emmzzi]

Are you aware attendance procedure does cover genuine illnesses? Doctors notes etc are no protection. You have indeed had a huge amount of time off.

 

Is this your first formal meeting? Do you have any warnings on file?

[becky2585]

Hi OP

 

I would suggest you look at this from your employer's point of view. Ballpark figures, but of around 300 working days, on average there will have been around 35 of those taken as annual leave, meaning you have had 50 out of 265 days off sick, which is almost one day per week on average. Regardless of the reason for the absence, they are most likely justified in taking action against you.

 

That said, they should have offered the right of appeal against the staged warnings. If they continue to fail to do so, the flaws in process may render any future dismissal unfair, although I suspect there will be an element or contributory fault for the amount of time you have had off.

[filrobbo]

If you think it's the job that is making you ill then tell them , they my be able to help.

[Sam Hayward]

I understand I have had alot of time off and I agree I need to change it, I've explained to my workplace that I think perhaps work is contributing to my not so 'wellbeing' and they really didn't have anything to say of the matter. It's why I'm going to try and get tests done to see if there is anything underlying. It doesn't seem as if there is any leniance against actual illness vs 'Oh I just feel unwell' I've never called in for a sicky before it's against my work ethic I try my hardest every time I work and it seems as if they take me for granted. Alongside the defamation, if I can use that term.

 

And so far I've never been given the right to appeal. I didn't know I could and it was only when I read the ACAS guidelines. So I personally would have appealed agaisnt the last meeting as I had been sent home from work 1 shift from being violently sick with the Noro, and then they proceeded to give me a disciplinary over that as it hit a trigger although they had sent me home and told me not to come in.

 

Also do I have a case with the slander? like if it is to become any worse any slander/ libel and deformation is incorrect and un professional right? So can I question why this is and has happened? and what are my rights with this issue?

 

Sam-

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Why do you think it's slander, defamation or libel? I think I'm right in saying that they refer to something that's said or written about you that isn't true.

 

I agree it's unprofessional, but bringing a libel case is a rich man's game. I've seen a figure of £10k quoted here before.

 

Hopefully the guys will guide you on how to deal with the meeting, etc.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

Here's a link to wikipedia on defamation law in the UK.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law

 

HB

[becky2585]

There isn't any defamation here unless they invented your sick record, which you have already said is poor!

 

I think all you can do is aim to significantly improve your attendance - if you manage without any more sick days, the warnings will eventually drop off your record, so it shouldn't be a huge problem moving forward.

 

You could theoretically raise a formal grievance about the disciplinary process being poorly handled, if you were minded to do so. I would recommend checking your employers disciplinary policy and grievance policy when doing so.

[Sam Hayward]

The only defamation I thought that had occured was the fact someone had told staff and people who we see regularly at work that I was effectively throwing a sicky and like tried to imply that I'm as silly as it sounds not a man about it. They have undermined my reputation/ name by telling staff and others that I wasn't being a man about the situation and took any reason to go off ill (and apparantly no reason)l. Which when your first shift back you have a few people mocking you saying 'you woman' ect. you kinda get the jist of it, it has kind of felt rather pathetic and childish the more I think about it. That a manager could be so immature as to pass that message onto people. Then again I may be wrong it could be a colleague that heard the message / misheard it and passed it on. For all I know it could just be hearsay, I'm going to question it tonight as to why people are saying these things. And where they came from. As with attendance I'm going to resolve that with my tests at the hospital as they could tell me I have diabetes or any other kind of underlying health issue that if I'm not maintaining could be causing the illness.

 

As for procedures they are identical really but in employer terms to ACAS they run in the same manner ect. But I've never been told I can appeal. I mean for all I know this may all blow over as a simple verbal/ written again of which I can work through once I understand why my body seems to hate me.

 

Sam -

[assisted blonde]

are you saying that you had 4 weeks off with a broken thumb???? Employers can dismiss with a poor sickness record, and I don't think any real defamation has taken place, you don't like to hear it from mother people or managers but I have got to say it does indeed look as if you are throwing sickies for no apparent reason and that's is their opinion. Seriously I wouldn't go or attempt to go down the defamation route just get the sickness under control

[Sam Hayward]

I understand that kind of thats why I was asking I didn't know under what circumstances slander and deformation can have a role in my defence. As im frankly quite annoyed that someone could have the audacity to go about telling everyone im the reason their life at work will be harder as I wanted some un necessary time off. I was simply wondering if thats the parameters to it. Clearly its just someone being extremely un professional trying to get my colleagues to go against me as such as its my fault. I dont know. Hopefully once I have had my tests and gotten tje results we can come to a solution.

[assisted blonde]

Yes Its annoying but we arte all entitled to an opinion and if that's their opinion it is really leave the defamation alone it wont help you and makmes things all a bit silly and petty

[Emmzzi]

Once again I ask; have you had any actual warnings? With no warnings you have nothing to appeal. Please clarify.