Gov't Changing Appeals Process?

[Guest]

Sorry if this is in wrong place or is somewhere else and I haven't seen it.

 

I have just heard that the government is changing the appeal system soon, and that the new system will make it harder to appeal. Is this true or just rumour?

[Nystagmite]

I heard it too. But I can't remember what the changes were. There is also something about the changes to legal aid. Again, I can't quite remember what.

[Guest]

Yes I heard about legal aid not being so easily available in general, which I think is already happening , due to so many litigant in person cases, especially in the family courts.

 

Surely wherever there is reason to there should always be an appeal route, or is that my simple logic talking which means nothing to the atossers and dwp

[antone]

Changes will be taking place from April 2013 for UC and PIP, and then from October 2013 for all other DWP benefits. The right to appeal will still exist, but the process will be different and more difficult.

 

At present, a claimant wishing to appeal submits the request to the DWP office that made the decision in question. That office carries out an internal reconsideration to see if the decision can be changed in the claimant's favour, thus avoiding the need for a formal appeal to tribunal. If the decision can't be revised, the office forwards the papers to the relevant HM Courts Tribunals Service (HMCTS) office and the appeal process begins.

 

Once the changes take place, claimants will have to make a request to the DWP for a reconsideration. They will then have to await notification of the result of that. If it's unfavourable, the claimant will then need to submit the formal appeal directly to HMCTS.

 

This will surely take more time. The other potential pitfall could affect ESA claimants, who are currently paid at the assessment once an appeal is received. As far as I know, it has not been decided whether ESA will be paid during the mandatory reconsideration process, nor whether there will be a time limit for DMs doing these reconsiderations.

[Guest]

sorry if I am being thick here.........I get most of that, its the last bit am not getting. So if a claimant appeals, they may not get any money ? I know nothing of ESA as I am still on IB after a successful tribunal hearing in 2011.

 

I was paid IS on reduced payment throughout the process until after the hearing when my claim was reopened for IB.

[sadone]

Yes no money unless you sign onto JSA whilst you wait which imo which will clash with the fact people are actually too ill to work, but then imo It's just another evil way to stop people appealing by staving them off.

[Guest]

how can you sign on for jsa which states your fit and ready for work, when your appealing a decision of fitness to work due to illness. given that genuinely ill people get found fit to work regardless. I guess this is where evidence is going to be crucial, and form filling and recordings equally so.

[sadone]

It's not meant to be fair, It's just more ways to shove people off benefits sadly.

[Guest]

oh well it would be fun for them with me on jsa, and finding anyone to employ me, its obviously more about reducing the benefits, as jsa is about £30 a week less than IB, then with council tax etc, and no doubt housing benefit will follow, all us sick will be homeless or suicidal. bright future under this government.

[Nystagmite]

Going on to JSA won't affect your appeal. But many won't get JSA due to being unfit for work.

[sadone]

To be honest I agree with my friend who used to work for the CAB who when this government first started to show their hand saw it as some kind of massive social experiment. A way of reorganizing the UK's population and wiping out/driving away large sections of those the Tories find to be 'undesirable'.

 

In the history of the world we've seen this sort of thing before of course.....

 

May this government burn in Hell.

[Guest]

that's my point exactly Nystagmite

[antone]

Yes no money unless you sign onto JSA whilst you wait which imo which will clash with the fact people are actually too ill to work, but then imo It's just another evil way to stop people appealing by staving them off.

 

That's not quite right - as far as I know the proposal allows for payment once the reconsideration is complete and the claimant has appealed to HMCTS. It's payment while the recon is being done at the DWP that is in question.

[Guest]

ohhhh I see antone, and of course they could take their time knowing full well your getting no money.....I guess its a time limit battle on that then.

[sadone]

That's not quite right - as far as I know the proposal allows for payment once the reconsideration is complete and the claimant has appealed to HMCTS. It's payment while the recon is being done at the DWP that is in question.

 

 

And as we can already guess they'll string that out for as long as possible. It's a nightmare waiting to happen and I'm sure many people won't even know whats awaiting them come April.

[Guest]

surely if they plan to leave people without money for this recon period there will have to be a time limit, or maybe they will decide to pay something but very little and impossible to live on, given the council tax situation ......beginning to remember the furore of the old poll tax days, doesn't seem like anything changes under the tories

[speedfreek]

What we have are alignment regulations designed to be implemented in UC.

 

The question should not be what will they pay me whilst appealing ESA?

 

The question should be under UC what will the conditionality status of the claimant be under reconsideration?

 

Or to put it bluntly since you now say I'm 2 hops away from work whilst I appeal will I have the same conditionality as JSA claimants until that is decided.

 

The aligning of both sanction regimes under a single payment with premiums would suggest somebody needs to ask this question!.

[speedfreek]

Just read back that post above and will clarify it a bit.

 

Under UC all income based claims will be made under a unified UC payment for all benefits. So both JSA and ESA Income Related cease to exist and qualification for what was ESA will then become premium payment on top of the base UC payment.

 

In this scenario you will not receive the premium whilst appealing but should still receive the base UC sum until it is decided. That is why I raised the conditionality question as it's not been clarified if the exception to it will remain or what that conditionality will be.

 

We then have the other issue of people who are claim contribution based as these will be dealt with outside of UC initially. The fear here is that payments will stop but no decision as yet has been forth coming.

 

There's actually 2 distinct issues that need addressed if I'm right? Both are important but only 1 (the non payment) seams to be being raised/recognised atm which is worrying.

 

DLA v's PIP neither will be/is paid until a final decision is made after an appeal/reconsideration so it's no change here and it's pointless and a bit strange people are including them in this issue.

[Guest]

I wasn't including DLA, my question was about the situation of the new appeals system with regard to ESA and any payment for that during the appeals process. I don't get or have ever claimed DLA, not worth the stress.

 

It concerns me that people are being fast tracked to JSA and then ending up with no money as are unfit to work but declared fit by those who should know better, ignore the evidence and effectively bully the sick and disabled, and these claimants cant do anything due to the 6month rule unless their condtion changes.

 

It seems this abuse will get worse if there is no money paid whilst an unlimited reconsideration could be played out forever and a day by those with the power to do so.

 

And this from a government who states they will always look after the sick...........really?