Barclaycard and 1st Cedit LTD

[1159skunk]

Good Afternoon,

 

In 2007 i started a dispute against barclaycard for misold PPi, and charges.

 

This was at the time that everyone was chasing bank charges so it took them longer to reply to everything.

 

Well eventually they wrote back stating they was putting all claims on hold until the big court hearing and that they would get back to me when the final outcome was known.

 

I accepted this and awaited and never got no reply,

 

in the meantime they passed on to a recoveries agency,

i wrote to them and sent all documents etc

 

i had sent to barclay card outlining the dispute,

they actually appologised and sent the account back to barclays.

 

At this point i wrote to barclays again, computer screen printouts sent to me recently from barclays confirm that despite

the dispute being acknowledged by barclaycard,

3 days later they sold it to 1st credit.

 

1st credit hounded me so copy of dispute sent to them.

They stopped hounding me but continue to mark on credit files every month for nearly 5 years as default,

and every christmas send me a statement of account.

 

Barclays meanwhile despite sending all documents, spreadsheets etc continue to ignore the dispute,

saying they need statements etc to process, although they had been sent them over 6 times with the follow up letters etc,

 

now Barclays admit they was in wrong, and agreed to pay 872.00 in PPi back which includes interest at rate charged and also 8% interest,

( although don't match with my interest added the amount is only 100 quid off )

 

they have also already agreed to pay back £8.00 for every £20.00 late payment charge etc.

 

When i get that final amount in it is more than the £1125 debt they unlawfully sold.

 

So although i am happy they have 6 years later finally nearly resolved my dispute,

i still have a default every month for the last 5 1/2 years for the amount which i didn't owe.

 

Is it best to refuse the ppi and charges offered and tke it to court so that i can get the defaults deleted from my records

or accept the offers ( I'm not signing their acceptance forms, will write my own )

or accept the offers and then try get them removed afterwards,

 

so far 1st credit have refused to pass the account back, refused to delete the default notices

and refused to stop further recording of default notices etc.

 

any suggestions would be appreciated

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I doubt you will get much more from court apart from hastle.

 

So I would recommend a formal complaint to Barclaycard,

Accept the PPI offer and seek redress for the damage to your credit file over 5 years + and removal of all credit file entries I have handled a few matters like this and it's proved very successfull, a judge will expect you to have exhausted the creditors complaints procedure before starting litigation.

 

I can draft a letter for you if needed.

[1159skunk]

Thanks for the offer Brigadier but i think my letter to them this time did the trick, got a reply which included these 3 sentences in

 

We consider the interest of Debt Recovery a legitimate interest and 1st Credit Ltd being the 3rd party to whom data has been disclosed.

 

As a result your data will remain on our system and will continue to be processed lawfully.

We do not believe we require your permission to process your data in relation to this matter.

 

In view of the contents of the communication we have recently received we have reverted to Barclays for their comments.

In addition we have taken the decision to remove our entry relating to this account from your credit file.

 

In the interim the account is on hold and we will contact you in due course.

 

So i am assuming this to mean they will process my data internally but will remove themselves from my credit file completely.

 

Am checking daily on Equifax, and will check noddle in 11 days when new report is out, they may however wait until i write back and accept barclays offer.

[dx100uk]

those offer seem very low for a card of that age.

 

post your soc's up

 

dx

[1159skunk]

This is my workings out total claim for ppi £998 = 341.07 actual charges and 657.76 interest

 

CLAIM DATE: 9-Jan-2013

 

INTEREST RATE:24.90%

DAILY INTEREST RATE IN PENCE: 68.14

341.07 657.7

Charge Reason Charge Amount Charge Date Interest

3.93 28-Aug-2002 10.15

 

3.95 26-Sep-2002 10.13

 

3.95 25-Oct-2002 10.05

 

3.95 27-Nov-2002 9.96

 

3.71 30-Dec-2002 9.27

 

3.95 28-Jan-2003 9.79

 

3.50 27-Feb-2003 8.61

 

3.77 27-Mar-2003 9.20

 

3.75 29-Apr-2003 9.06

 

3.87 29-May-2003 9.27

 

3.95 26-Jun-2003 9.39

 

3.77 25-Jul-2003 8.89

 

2.92 28-Aug-2003 6.82

 

1.57 25-Sep-2003 3.64

 

3.95 27-Oct-2003 9.06

 

2.88 27-Nov-2003 6.54

 

3.25 29-Dec-2003 7.31

 

3.08 28-Jan-2004 6.87

 

7.03 26-Feb-2004 15.54

 

6.30 25-Mar-2004 13.80

 

7.01 29-Apr-2004 15.19

 

6.92 28-May-2004 14.86

 

7.35 25-Jun-2004 15.64

 

6.82 27-Jul-2004 14.37

 

7.17 26-Aug-2004 14.96

 

6.84 27-Sep-2004 14.12

 

7.44 27-Oct-2004 15.21

 

7.95 25-Nov-2004 16.09

 

7.86 29-Dec-2004 15.73

 

7.03 28-Jan-2005 13.92

7.53 25-Feb-2005 14.77

 

7.81 29-Mar-2005 15.15

 

7.72 27-Apr-2005 14.82

 

7.85 27-May-2005 14.91

 

7.48 27-Jun-2005 14.05

 

7.00 27-Jul-2005 13.00

 

7.49 25-Aug-2005 13.77

 

6.96 27-Sep-2005 12.63

 

6.84 27-Oct-2005 12.28

 

6.86 25-Nov-2005 12.18

 

6.25 29-Dec-2005 10.95

 

6.81 27-Jan-2006 11.80

 

6.17 27-Feb-2006 10.56

 

7.37 27-Mar-2006 12.47

 

5.66 28-Apr-2006 9.45

 

5.01 26-May-2006 8.27

 

6.86 27-Jun-2006 11.18

 

6.77 27-Jul-2006 10.89

 

7.44 25-Aug-2006 11.82

 

7.84 27-Sep-2006 12.28

 

8.25 26-Oct-2006 12.76

 

8.67 27-Nov-2006 13.22

 

6.41 29-Dec-2006 9.63

 

6.69 26-Jan-2007 9.93

 

6.97 27-Feb-2007 10.19

 

7.28 27-Mar-2007 10.50

 

7.66 30-Apr-2007 10.87

 

8.07 29-May-2007 11.30

 

8.48 27-Jun-2007 11.70

 

8.82 26-Jul-2007 12.00

 

There working out is £366.83 actual charges - 238.84 refund of interest charged on ppi. and 266.50 8% simple interest. To be honest i'm applying for a mortgage soon, just want out of way and report deleted so nothing bad on credit file.

 

[slick132]

Hi 1159,

 

Re penalty charges, their offer to repay only £8 (being the excess over the OFT's £12 ceiling) is poor.

 

You can and should reclaim the full amount of every charge and claim interest in restitution at 24.9%. BC will refuse this and you will have to start court action to recover what you're owed. If you do this, you may also be able to have a CRA marker by BC or 1st Credit removed.

 

Use this spready and let us know approx what figures you get for interest and for chgs - http://www.shweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/interestcalcs.xls

 

Also read here about interest - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?757-Interest-Tutorial-and-Spreadsheets

 

[dx100uk]

yep those figure cannot be right

example..

3.93 28-8-2002 = 3808 days = £56.28!!

 

dx

[1159skunk]

Well i was going to accept it,

but barclaycard have gone back on a previous letter regarding charges

stating they would pay back £8.00 plus interest on ALL 20.00 charges when card statements are provided.

 

So will be filing one claim with MCOL later on today hopefully,

for the PPi and the charges in full.

 

Really shocked that they have acted like this

when i have it in writting from them that they would pay back all charges from start of account in 2001.

 

Now they say only the last 6 years despite providing the proof of when i originally began the dispute 6 years ago.

 

I assume it is perfectly acceptable to try reclaim both ppi and charges in one claim?

[1159skunk]

Also when i do the claim online, do i tick the box to send additional detailed particulars to the defendant, and resend the spreadsheets to barclaycard etc

[slick132]

Hi Skunk,

 

Don't rush into this too quickly or you'll make errors that may hamper reclaiming penalty charges, PPI or both.

 

Reclaiming the PPI by court action may not be the best option and using one court claim to cover both issues may be unwise.

 

Start a thread in the PPI forums for advice on reclaiming this. The FOS may be a better option than court action for various reasons, if the bank is unwilling to repay PPI as you want.

 

I suggest you deal with the penalty charges issue with court action if you are properly prepared. We suggest you do NOT use MCOL but start off using the CCMCC which will lead to a local hearing. You can use the compound interest spreadsheet with a rate of 24.9% (see post #6 above).

 

Using that spreadsheet, roughly what figures do you get for penalties and for charges.

 

[1159skunk]

I wasn't aware of that place,

i'm not going to rush this,

it's taken almost 6 years to get this far,

 

1st credit have already completely deleted the entry from my credit files, for now at least,

so thats not an issue any more, but i do on their records owe £1124.70 however

Barclaycard owes me more.

 

I'm not satisfied with the information provided by my Sar request as statements missing,

when they should have kept all statements due to the ongoing dispute,

 

So might write again to demand everything, AGAIN, surely everything would mean they'd have to also send me copies of all the dispute letters i have sent to them and their replies.

 

I can't remeber what speadsheet i used before and still use think its one of Vamps if my memory is correct

it has been like 6 years since i originally did it and just keep amending the date rather than redo it all.

 

Will look at the above calculator and get back with some figures on both PPi and Charges,

surely though aswell if they got the figures to be able to work out the PPi charges then surely they have copies of the missing statements?

 

I also didn't think courts were entertaining claims for Unfair charges due to the ruling which is why i was going to claim both on one form.

[slick132]

Come back with your penalty charges and interest figures when you've put them on the spreadsheet.

 

BC are not likely to supply any data older than 6 years unless you take specific court action to force disclosure. You have to decide if the time, trouble and delays in doing this would be worthwhile in view of any additional amounts you could possibly reclaim.

 

These are still being reclaimed from BC and CAGgers are claiming the full charge amount plus compound interest in restitution, because the charges are unlawful penalties.

 

It was the general reclaiming of bank a/c default charges that was knocked on the head by the High Court test case of Carey v HSBC ruled on by HHJ Waksman.

 

[1159skunk]

Ok going to work on it tonight and tomorrow,

not sure what type of interest i was using on my spreadsheets, but i like this one better

 

so my first charge of £7.01 on 29th April 2004 at an interest rate of 24.9% = £43.04 so total £50.05p for 1 charge.

 

Can i really get that much back per charge,

 

and do they usually pay before court or more than likely go all the way now

[dx100uk]

they normally cough

 

This second spreadsheet is a compound interest calculator and can be used both for PPI claims and Charges Reclaims on Revolving Credit Accounts such as credit cards. Compound interest is not an award that fos will give in respect of PPI claims but it can be used in PPI cases that are pursued through the courts. It is the standard sheet that is also used for charges reclaims both on credit cards and loan accounts where interest in restitution is claimed.

 

CISheet v101.xls

[1159skunk]

Claim Date 1-Mar-2013

Interest Rate (%APR) 24.90% 0.06093% % per day

TOTAL CLAIM: 2,299.74

TOTAL AMOUNTS 400.00

1,899.74

Charge Reason Charge Amount Charge Date Days Interest

Notes

20.00 26-Aug-2004 3110 112.98

20.00 27-Oct-2004 3049 108.13

20.00 25-Nov-2004 3021 105.96

20.00 25-Nov-2004 3021 105.96

20.00 29-Dec-2004 2987 103.38

20.00 29-Dec-2004 2987 103.38

20.00 25-Feb-2005 2926 98.88

20.00 25-Feb-2005 2926 98.88

20.00 29-Mar-2005 2892 96.45

20.00 29-Mar-2005 2892 96.45

20.00 27-Apr-2005 2864 94.48

20.00 27-Apr-2005 2864 94.48

20.00 27-May-2005 2834 92.40

20.00 27-May-2005 2834 92.40

20.00 27-Jun-2005 2804 90.37

20.00 27-Jun-2005 2804 90.37

20.00 25-Aug-2005 2746 86.54

20.00 25-Aug-2005 2746 86.54

20.00 27-Mar-2006 2529 73.34

20.00 27-Jun-2006 2439 68.36

[1159skunk]

Took quicker than i thought,

 

so these are the figures and the spread sheet to send with my case.

 

Damn all the spreadsheets i been sending them were nowhere near that,

and was only for the £8.00 difference,

 

could have lost out big if they had just done what i asked them to before.

 

Hopefulyy their loss for messing me about for so long

[dx100uk]

attach the spready

 

dx

[slick132]

Hi Skunk,

 

I assume the figures shown in post #15 above are just a limited section of the spready listing.

 

So is it Charges - £400 and Interest - £1,900

 

That looks more like it !

 

Read some of the BC **WON with Compound Interest** threads here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?97-Barclays-BCard-and-Woolwich-successes

 

Acquaint yourself with the process so you're prepared to send off your new Prelim Claim letter for the penalty charges. When that fails to secure the refund, you'll send the LBA followed by court action through CCMCC 14 days later.

 

BC will argue against repaying and they respond by defending when you file the court claim. But experience so far shows they'll settle before the court hearing date.

 

And, if you're lucky, they'll agree to settle before you have to print of the hundreds of pages required for your court bundle. However, you WILL have to put the bundle together in readiness for printing and sending off to the court and Barclays Bank PLC t/a Barclaycard (which is who you'll sue). You can prepare for this by getting all the info ready on your PC, in case it's needed.

 

Don't start the court process unless you're prepared to see it through to the end. This has happened in the past and the case gets heard before a judge. However, with BC cases, it is rare.

 

[slick132]

You should mention in your POC's the cases of Sempra Metals v Inland Revenue Commissioners and Kleinwort Benson v Lincoln City Council.

 

Here's a current case that's in the later stages, with a hearing set for next month - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?364605-BARCLAYCARD-S.A.R-Confusing!!!

 

Read it through.

 

[1159skunk]

i have gone through all the charges again from the statements that i do have,

(2 years missing sar failed first time, more info sent 2nd time

but still missing statements for 2001-2004 but will proceed with charges reclaim with what i have)

 

ready to send this out on Monday by special delivery,

although it says xxx what you charged me in interest,

that is not what they actually charged me that is what my reclaim interest is to date.

 

Account number

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Following media reports, and an investigation into credit card charges by the Office of Fair Trading, which I have recently been made aware of,I now understand, that the regime of fees which you applied to my account in relation to late fees, and over limit charges, are unlawful at CommonLaw,Statute and Consumer regulations, in that they did not, represent a genuine pre-estimate of your actual costs.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that this account was opened. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law, and in consideration of fair business practices and good faith.

 

It is my contention, that you failed to operate my account in a manner conducive to the above, and have demonstrated a lack of fiduciary duty.

 

I calculate that you have taken £616 plus £2568.18 which you have charged me in

interest which total £3184.18.

 

In recent years, Courts have been happy to accept claims for bank charges that exceed The 6 years whilst having regards to the precedent set between KLEINWORT BENSON -v- LINCOLN CITY COUNCIL under section 32 © of the Limitation Act 1980. Should County Court Action be needed I will be seeking to rely on this.

 

 

Therefore this letter requests a refund of all charges indicated including interest 14 days from the date of this letter.

I request that payment is made directly to me, by cheque, and that any refund in whole or part should not be allocated to any set off or third parties.

Should this occur, my claim will be deemed as unsettled and I will proceed to the Courts for recovery.

 

 

You now have 14 days to respond positively,and in the absence of this,I will put you on notice with a further 14 days letter before action.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

Can't get attachments to work so can't attach spreadsheet

[1159skunk]

oh and forgot to say

i have got the charge dates and amounts for the missing statements

just no way to prove the dates as no statements given for that period only 3 charges.

Have put the dates and amounts on a different speadsheet and it comes to an additional £695.36

[dx100uk]

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

[1159skunk]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42100[/ATTACH]

 

Have given charge reasons on final spread sheet,

so hopefully everything right this time,

if this works then BC are going to regret being so unreasonable

when i had been quite happy to accept the £8.00 difference with interest as they said they would do,

before they changed their minds when i sent everything in they'd asked for.

[slick132]

Hi Skunk,

 

Are there any amounts that Barclays or BC are likely to Set Off to 3rd party debt owners. In any event, you don't need to include reference to this in the Prelim Claim letter or the LBA.

 

I've redrafted the letter to omit unnecessary content and to refer to interest in restitution instead of interest charged by BC :-

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Account number xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

 

Following media reports and an investigation into credit card charges by the Office of Fair Trading which I have recently been made aware of, I now understand that the regime of fees which you applied to my account in relation to late fees and over limit charges are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and Consumer Regulations, in that they did not represent a genuine pre-estimate of your actual costs.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that this account was opened. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law, and in consideration of fair business practices and good faith.

 

It is my contention that you failed to operate my account in a manner conducive to the above and have demonstrated a lack of fiduciary duty.

 

I calculate that you have charged me £616 in unlawful penalties. I also seek restitutionary interest of £2568.18 and enclose a Schedule of Charges showing the total of £3184.18 which I require to be repaid.

 

I will rely on the precedent set in the case of Kleinwort Benson v Lincoln City Council regarding charges older than 6 years and s.32(1)© of the Limitation Act 1980. Further, I will rely on the case of Sempra Metals v Inland Revenue Commissioners regarding my claim to restitutionary interest.

 

I now require that you refund the charges and interest totaling £3184.18 within 14 days.

 

If you fail to respond positively within 14 days, I will send you a Letter Before Action giving a final 14 days, after which I will proceed with court action without further notice.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Edited September 2, 2013 by slick132
corrected to read s.32(1)(c)

[1159skunk]

sent the first letter later than intended,

however 14 days passed and no reply,

 

letter before action sent,

another 14 days since receiving has passed,

 

so time to do a bit more reading and start court proceedings.

 

Need to figure it all out ASAP cos don't want this dragging on again longer than necessary

 

going to check out some successful claims and what to do next.