Viewing PCN images online

[adamr0we]

Hi,

I just wanted to share a link to a website that I have created, which is basically a database of links to Local Authorities that allow online access to PCN images and footage. You can search by the authority name or PCN prefix and I have also tried to list postal and email addresses as well as phone numbers for the authority parking teams.

 

http://pcnportal.co.uk

 

I thought some on these forums might find it useful if they needed to get hold of contravention images quickly, or where the original notice wasn't available or to hand. Currently there are approx. 85 Local Authorities and private parking companies in the database, and I am constantly searching for more. If an authority isn't listed it will currently show a 'not found' message although I hope to add contact details for all of them eventually.

 

Feedback or ideas/suggestions are very much appreciated.

[MaisyMouse]

Now, if you could include video footage on your site, that would be fantastic.

 

I've wasted virtually a whole day travelling into London to view eight seconds of slow moving traffic because the local authority that ticketed me has refused to offer portal details to view the alleged offence.

 

By doing so you would be helping out the environment as well.

[adamr0we]

Now, if you could include video footage on your site, that would be fantastic.

 

I've wasted virtually a whole day travelling into London to view eight seconds of slow moving traffic because the local authority that ticketed me has refused to offer portal details to view the alleged offence.

 

By doing so you would be helping out the environment as well.

 

Some of the sites do offer video footage but it depends on the alleged offence and what system they are using. That might make a good article for the site actually, as there are only about 4-5 different systems in use nationwide. The system used by Reading for example almost always offers video if it exists.

[MaisyMouse]

Some of the sites do offer video footage but it depends on the alleged offence and what system they are using. That might make a good article for the site actually, as there are only about 4-5 different systems in use nationwide. The system used by Reading for example almost always offers video if it exists.

 

Some do of course, but not Hammersmith and Fulham. They actually prevent you from taking a copy during the appointment to view it. It's then very difficult to seek legal advice (or go to PATAS) to challenge on the possibility the stills don't show the whole picture, but amazingly convenient for the local authority.

 

They also refused to tell me what leve of experience or qualifications the camera operator holds that allows him to decide on issuing a PCN for a traffic violation.

[green_and_mean]

They also refused to tell me what leve of experience or qualifications the camera operator holds that allows him to decide on issuing a PCN for a traffic violation.

 

Why would that matter, you either contravened the restriction or you didn't, the life story of the person filming you hasn't really got much to do with it.

[MaisyMouse]

Why would that matter, you either contravened the restriction or you didn't, the life story of the person filming you hasn't really got much to do with it.

 

The suggestion that somebody spending time achieving an NVQ2 qualification in Controlled Parking is no more worthy than a captive monkey pressing buttons to receive food isn't one I'd considered.

[adamr0we]

My understanding is that any authority should always provide the option of having a CD or DVD of the recording posted to you, as they would have to provide the same to PATAS should an appeal go ahead. You may have even been able to appeal to them on the basis that you were not provided the evidence and therefore the contravention couldn't be proved to have happened.

 

You also have a point about camera operators as well, take this from the PATAS annual report 2010-11:

 

CCTV Enforcement

Brown v Westminster PATAS 2100432814 (2010); Bolton v Westminster PATAS

2100431447 (2010); Gershfieldd v Westminster PATAS 2100362264 (2010);

Mould v Westminster PATAS 2100287861 (2010): The issue in these cases was

whether the Appellant was entitled to the benefit of the exemption for picking up

passengers. In each case the Adjudicator was concerned that at the moment a

passenger boarded the vehicle the camera panned away. Concern was also

expressed that there was excessive time spent on observing the vehicle’s licence

number plate, which obscured any view of possible passenger pick up or exempt

activity. In the case of Bolton, during an observation period of less than three

minutes, there was observation in excess of one minute focusing entirely on the

vehicle licence number plate.

 

I've seen a few cases over the years where CCTV operators have obscured footage or have cherry picked still images for a PCN which give the impression a contravention happened when the full footage showed something else entirely. It may be rare in the grand scheme of things, but not unheard of.

 

You did give me another idea about my site, and whether I should have a summary of what options each authority provide (images, video etc...) but it would be a fairly large task so I might keep that as an idea to use if the site becomes popular.

[green_and_mean]

The suggestion that somebody spending time achieving an NVQ2 qualification in Controlled Parking is no more worthy than a captive monkey pressing buttons to receive food isn't one I'd considered.

 

Sorry still cannot see the relevance? So you are saying if a monkey filmed you stopping in a box junction rather than someone with a degree in parking studies it would somehow make you less guilty??

[Kiki1]

So you are saying if a monkey filmed you stopping in a box junction rather than someone with a degree in parking studies it would somehow make you less guilty??

 

A degree ? Monsieur Mean, now you are really spoiling us.

 

The following equivalences are used by the London School of Economics's Research Lab[1]

• NVQ 1 = foundation GNVQ, three to four GCSEs at grades D-E.
  
• NVQ 2 = four or five GCSEs at grades A*-C.
  

[green_and_mean]

A degree ? Monsieur Mean, now you are really spoiling us.

 

The following equivalences are used by the London School of Economics's Research Lab[1]

• NVQ 1 = foundation GNVQ, three to four GCSEs at grades D-E.
  
• NVQ 2 = four or five GCSEs at grades A*-C.
  

 

I don't need a lecture on qualification levels thank you, I stated degree for a reason as it is the opposite extreme to an unqualified monkey. The point being the evidence is that provided by the approved device and not the person using it, if you are filmed stopped in a box junction when prohibited why would it matter what educational background the operator has? If the person has acted incorrectly and alledged a contravention has taken place when it has not, then that will be apparent on the cctv footage regardless of it being a monkey or Stephen Hawkin using the camera and would be the basis of the appeal. If the person was required to be qualified by law then a failure to be qualified would be one of the grounds for appeal which it clearly isn't.

[Kiki1]

City & Guilds Level 2 Award for Parking Enforcement Officers (1950-02)

 

What subjects are covered?

• Current parking legislation

• CCTV equipment and how they operate

• Record images of contraventions

• Parking and traffic exemptions and their application

• Information for vehicle identification

• Issuing Penalty Charge Notices

• Safe and effective working practices

• Risk of violence in the parking work environment (conflict management)

• Behaviour that indicates an escalation towards violence (conflict management)

• Post incident support (conflict management)

http://www.camden.gov.uk/ccm/cms-service/download/asset?asset_id=2840213

If your argument were valid, there would be no need for any primate to take the course, and yet it exists. If you are unfit to use the device, regardless of how 'approved' it might be, none of the 'evidence' gained can be used to follow up with a collection of the PCN amount levied, based on the images obtained.

[jimmy2times]

I don't need a lecture on qualification levels thank you, I stated degree for a reason as it is the opposite extreme to an unqualified monkey. The point being the evidence is that provided by the approved device and not the person using it, if you are filmed stopped in a box junction when prohibited why would it matter what educational background the operator has? If the person has acted incorrectly and alledged a contravention has taken place when it has not, then that will be apparent on the cctv footage regardless of it being a monkey or Stephen Hawkin using the camera and would be the basis of the appeal. If the person was required to be qualified by law then a failure to be qualified would be one of the grounds for appeal which it clearly isn't.

 

Any monkey can get a degree, the opposite side of the spectrum would be a Phd.

[MaisyMouse]

Any monkey can get a degree, the opposite side of the spectrum would be a Phd.

 

Reminds me of the scene in 2001, where the apes have access to the bone, but only one (after gaining intellect from the obelisk) is qualified touse it.

[green_and_mean]

There are city and guilds in hair dressing but is it illegal to cut hair without one? How about photography maybe since they are using a camera they should have a city and guilds in photography? You can carry on with your stupid argument but the fact remains, the evidence is that produced by the camera and then presented to PATAS the vocational qualifications of the person that uses the camera means absolutely nothing.

[MaisyMouse]

There are city and guilds in hair dressing but is it illegal to cut hair without one? .....

 

Funny you mention it

 

http://www.haircouncil.org.uk/pages/apply.php

 

the option to a qualificaton being confirmation with respect to the number of years in the business, in other words, competence in the trade.

 

As I posted, the authority refused to give an answer to the question over experience OR qualification. I woud gladly have paid the fine had I been advised the monkey - sorry - operative had been doing it for years, H and F raised the bar by their own inadmission.

[green_and_mean]

Funny you mention it

 

http://www.haircouncil.org.uk/pages/apply.php

 

the option to a qualificaton being confirmation with respect to the number of years in the business, in other words, competence in the trade.

 

As I posted, the authority refused to give an answer to the question over experience OR qualification. I woud gladly have paid the fine had I been advised the monkey - sorry - operative had been doing it for years, H and F raised the bar by their own inadmission.

 

Great next time I get a parking ticket I'll request the shoe size of the CEO and then appeal to PATAS if they don't tell me!

[tomtubby]

Green & Mean

 

You never fail to make me laugh.....

[kenwood]

I just received a PCN recorded on a camera and was given the option to view it here:

 

http://www.viewmypcn.co.uk

 

Now, if you could include video footage on your site, that would be fantastic.

 

I've wasted virtually a whole day travelling into London to view eight seconds of slow moving traffic because the local authority that ticketed me has refused to offer portal details to view the alleged offence.

 

By doing so you would be helping out the environment as well.

[ericsbrother]

The CCTV operator must be a competent or authorised person and EU legislation has things to say about that so it is relevant. PATAS adjudicators wont be happy with a LA if they dont hand over the footage by the time it gets to them. You can demand the footage if it exists via a DPA subject access request if the authority wont hand it over voluntarily.

[green_and_mean]

The CCTV operator must be a competent or authorised person and EU legislation has things to say about that so it is relevant.

 

What legislation would that be?

[Kiki1]

What legislation would that be?

 

The Diffley and Wallace publications give a lot of detail on this (PSDB 9.98 etc)

 

 

Opposable thumbs alone is no guarantee of competence.

[green_and_mean]

The Diffley and Wallace publications give a lot of detail on this (PSDB 9.98 etc)

 

 

Opposable thumbs alone is no guarantee of competence.

 

I didn't ask who gives detail, I asked what eu legislation states that a cctv operator must be qualified?

[Kiki1]

http://www.highfieldabc.com/

 

The HABC Level 2 Award in CCTV Operations (Public Space Surveillance) has been developed to meet the requirements of the Security Industry Authority (SIA).

 

Entry Guidance

It is advised that learners have a minimum of Level 1 in literacy or numeracy or equivalent.

 

I may have been a bit too generous with my earlier comment, the knuckles must have been off the ground at some point.

[green_and_mean]

http://www.highfieldabc.com/

 

The HABC Level 2 Award in CCTV Operations (Public Space Surveillance) has been developed to meet the requirements of the Security Industry Authority (SIA).

 

Entry Guidance

It is advised that learners have a minimum of Level 1 in literacy or numeracy or equivalent.

 

I may have been a bit too generous with my earlier comment, the knuckles must have been off the ground at some point.

 

I am confused you seem to have moved away from traffic enforcement and onto the SIA and public space surveillance and still not stated any EU legislation, I am beginning to think you haven't got a clue what you are talking about!

[Kiki1]

I am confused you seem to have moved away from traffic enforcement and onto the SIA and public space surveillance and still not stated any EU legislation, I am beginning to think you haven't got a clue what you are talking about!

 

Does traffic enforcement have a different working title of cctv operator ?