Battleaxe does MBNA

[rosierose]

Hi BA

 

The concealment really sounds a bit underhanded, but what I can't my head around is whether by purporting to be someone else they have either broken the law or the terms of the contract ... The CCA doesn't seem to define assignment (if that is what MBNA have done in taking over the card). And consequently, I can't really see much in it which would preclude what they are doing, but it does seem very wrong to me. There must be some other bit of legislation I haven't read yet. Can you enlighten me? I obviously need to read up a bit...

 

So little time and so many statutes, eh?

[Guest Battleaxe]

RosieRose,

Deep breath. MBNA never notified us that they had taken over the card. A & L never notified us that they had sold the card business to MBNA. So for nine years we thought we were dealing with A & L

Surely somewhere there is something that they have to let the carholder know the business had been sold. MBNA never gave a hint that they owned the card, all statements and letters are on A & L letterhead, until I started digging and then it came to light. A & L sold the business three years ago.

 

To me, now this is where I could be barking up the wrong tree, I would have thought that MBNA should have let us know, A& L sold our details to another party without our permission or knowledge. Now this party has sent our details offshore to India, again without our permission.

 

I honestly don't know the right or wrongs of this, but surely there is moral obligation for disclosure and as such it is us who have the right to decide if we want to continue doing business with whatever company, or not doing business with a company if we so choose. A & L took this right away from us and MBNA never gave us the choice.

 

Hope this helps you understand the way we feel about the concealment issue. We signed an agreement with A & L. We never signed an agreement with MBNA. We always believed we were dealing with A & L. We were never told otherwise.

[tamadus]

Hi Battleaxe,

 

Rosie asked me to take a look at your thread, so here I am for better or worse, thanks Rosie, this is almost identical to a battle I am having on behalf of my ex wife.

 

She also had an account with A&L and a credit card through them. She has reclaimed charges to her bank account and we have now turned our attention to the credit card.

 

An SAR was sent to A&L who cashed the check, 1 week before the 40 day deadline expired she got a letter from MBNA saying they had recieved details of it from A&L but needed identity verification and payment of £10 lmao.

 

Letters have gone to both companies informing them that the SAR time limit has expired and that they had better get their collective fingers out and satisfy it. Nothing has been heard since. In addition A&L should have supplied the data anyway under the initial SAR for the bank account.

 

Like you she was never notified of the change in account holder. This is not unusual but they should at the very least notify the account holder about the change.

 

It looks to me like we are both following similar routes with this crowd but I am not posting details until it's resolved as I don't want the Men In Black to have advance notice of my plans. Suffice it to say that they are about to recieve more than they have bargained for

 

Battleaxe if you want to PM me and we can discuss tactics in private.

[Guest Battleaxe]

MODS,

 

One for the litagation section received from the Court today.

 

Claim Number 6HN01496

Defendants MBNA Europe Bank Ltd

Non Compliance of Data Protection Act

Amount £589.75

[Guest Battleaxe]

 

Went down to the Mail Depot this afternoon and picked this up as it had to be signed for i was nearly going to refuse delivery of it, but thought better of it. There information from 2000-2003 is useless, there is missing documentation, so a copy of this goes to the Information Commissioner and the OFT

[CromDubh]

letter arrived from Global Vantedge acting for A & L/MBNA CC. yep chasing us for £149.54.

 

I took a deep breath and phoned Global Vantedge, surprise, surprise, heavily accented voice at other end, sounded like an undersea cable, says his name is Jonathon.

 

We went through the usual crap of identification,

 

Told Jonathion in no uncertain terms this account is in dispute, we will neot be dealing with his company regarding this and already OFT and Informayion Commissioner is involved, so stick everything where the sun don't shine, then hung up.

 

The letter really doesn't contain any threats we weren't expecting. I love the bit about visiting MOTH at his place of work. oh yeah, they have to gain entry to a secure defence establishment and of course the usual guff about adverse credit ratings.

 

Guess where the letter came from 77-B, Sector 16, IFFCO Road, Gurgaon-122015, INDIA

 

Regd office A-16/9 Vasant Viliar, New Delhi-110057.

 

yep MBNA are sending our details offshore for collection.

 

Loved the bit about visiting MOTH, reminds me of trying to get car insurance while being stationed at RAF Aldergrove....Her: Do you have any protective measures for your vehicle? Me: You mean beyond the Armed Guards, Barbed Wire fences and Guard Dogs? Not a smart place to try to climb over the fence to steal a car.....

[Guest Battleaxe]

CromDubh,

 

We also have a similar conversation when we organise our insurance. I mention the CCTV on the gate into the housing area and it being hooked up to the RAF police building and also mentin the RAF Police regular patrols nd the Police helicopter over the back fence. I wouldn't like to be a stupid car thief in this area.

[Guest Battleaxe]

it gets interesting by the day.

 

I have just spoken to a Julie hartley who in charge of the Compliance Team at MBNA.

 

Looks like MBNA bought the A & L credit card business back in 2001. I have asked for a letter confirming the date.

 

A & L transferred all data by microfiche. This is so hard to follow as the printouts are all over the place and trying to find the charges is not easy.

 

There is a fourth credit reference agency MoversData Ltd, 4 Main Road, Radcliffe-On-Trent, Nottingham NG12 2FH.

 

5th December 2006

Case Reference Number RFAxxxxxxxx

Dear Mrs Smith

Thank you for your correspondence dated 14th November 2006 regarding MBNA. It has been added to the complaint file regarding Alliance and Leicester.

The 40 days for complying with the subject access request made to MBNA which was posted 13th October 2006 will not expire until 24th November 2006 assuming the request was received on the 14th October, or 26th November assuming the request was not received until Monday 16th October 2006.

If you have not received the information requested and wish to make a complaint please complete our complaint form.

Yours sincerely

Sharon Boot

Case Reception Unit

The Information Commissioner's Office

Whatever the date the packet got posted for delivery they missed the ICO deadline and also my extended of the 29th November.

The package arrived in Huntingdon at the same time I was filing in court for non-compliance.

I asked about the transferring of our data by A & L to a third party with out our consent and of course she was unable to answer that.

They use the A & L credit card stuff when sending out as it the brand now owned by MBNA.

I also asked about tracing the so called letter that we were notified that MBNA now owned the card, but she isn't sure she can locate that. She was specific that ALL A & L customers were notified of the sale.

It was no use me getting upset with her, when it is the other departments. Her department is the meat in the sandwich.

She says their packages leave them secure and what happens is on the way is not their fault.

[CromDubh]

CromDubh,

 

We also have a similar conversation when we organise our insurance. I mention the CCTV on the gate into the housing area and it being hooked up to the RAF police building and also mentin the RAF Police regular patrols nd the Police helicopter over the back fence. I wouldn't like to be a stupid car thief in this area.

 

think the silliest had to be when I was at Stanbridge...bought a motorbike..and if I kept it on base, behind the fences and armed guards...the insurance was half as much again than if I kept it in the garages on Married Quarters, which were broken into on a weekly basis....Poxy Insurance agents...dumber than a bucket of bricks..

[Guest Battleaxe]

I am ready to get my charges back on the infamous credit card.

 

I should know the answers but I want to check.

 

1. I discovered Payment Protection Plan being charged for about 12 months, I checked the Credit agreement and guess what, the copy clearly shows no tick in the box for payment protection. Suddenly it stopped, so a few punds there the claim back.

 

2. Other interest, being charged, apart from retail interest and cash . I am assuming this is the interest they have charged when we have exceeded the limit. Tranasaction Code 47, but no explanation what that is.

 

3. We got a copy of the comms log, oh boy they have been ringing a telephone number we had two years ago, it shows dead air, yet they know the correct telephone number. They must have rung the old number about 30 times in the space of a week. What better evidence of harassment?

 

They also have been ringing the HO of kent's employment and being told that no such person there.

 

The log shows the date and time I told them the account is in dispute.

 

Oh they also have given us £110.00 goodwill hahahahahaha

 

I also want to charge for the extra costs regarding our BTphone bill, letters, postage etc. Guess this will have to wait until they make an offer so I can get all the other charges back

 

Questions,

 

Can I put the Payment protection charges on the spreadsheet?

 

Can I include the other Interest transaction code 47 on the spreadsheet?

 

I want to get this finished today and get the Prelim letter in the post tomorrow.

[Guest Battleaxe]

I am just rechecking the paperwork from MBNA regarding the A & L Credit card and checking the signature blocks, yes kent and my signatures are there but nothing for Alliance & Leicester, also found an X in the box for PPI, yest we ticked for Card protection payment.

 

Would this agreement be binding?

[rosierose]

As an unexecuted agreement it is unenforceable without an order of the court as it stands BA.

 

But, this is from the OFT guidance on the matter:

 

APPLICATION TO THE COURT FOR AN ENFORCEMENT ORDER

 

A non-cancellable credit agreement will be improperly executed unless all the requirements as to form and content and copies to be given to the customer are strictly complied with. A trader can, however, apply to the court for an order that an improperly executed agreement can be enforced.

 

The court can dismiss an application only if it considers that to do so would be just, having regard to the extent to which the customer (or anyone else) has been prejudiced by the breach (or breaches) of the requirements, and the extent to which the trader was to blame for the breach. In granting an enforcement order the court can also suspend the operation of any term of the agreement and/or reduce or discharge any sum payable by the customer under the agreement.

 

The court cannot order enforcement where an agreement – even one in the proper form – was not signed by the customer. However, provided that the customer has signed some sort of document containing details of the amount of credit (or of the credit limit), the rate of interest (if appropriate) and of the repayments, enforcement can be allowed, in some circumstances. If the court makes an order regarding such an agreement, it can direct that any term not included in that document shall have no effect. In short, a faulty document can, in some circumstances, be enforceable, but an unwritten agreement can never be enforceable under the Act.

 

I think we might have to search out some case law. Tam? are you listening??

[Guest Battleaxe]

Thanks for this Rosie. We are not trying to get out of the debt and would willing epay the principle, but this lot have made our so miserable the last couple of months, I want them to sit back and realise that what pressure they are trying to bring to bear might not be viewed so favourably in Court if the Agreement has not been properly executed. It was only when I double checked the Agreement I noticed A & L had not signed their box, which says Office Use Only, for and on behalf of Alliance & leicester signature date and both are blank.

[tamadus]

Yes Rosie I am listening

 

Battleaxe I'll phone you tomorrow so PM if I dont. I have realised something new about PPI that might be interesting to you.

 

I'm trying to work out how to calculate it now

[Guest Battleaxe]

 

Since when does £131.x 2 = 313.74/ Oh I forgot they are trying to get me topay the charges as well in the payment. i think all my posts to them this week might give them some food for thought.

 

I also notice we have a new head of customer assistance, this must be the job title of the month this month.

 

I have sent for the SAR, served a section 10 Notice and also a ltter reminding them banking code para 13.6 registering a default while an account is in dispute. They might realise soon that I am serious about this.

 

Juggling two MBNA disputes is fun..they can't say we don't take an active interest in the banking activities of MBNA

[Guest Battleaxe]

 

16 December 2006

Mr Joe Sbriglia

Head of Customer Assistance

MBNA Europe Bank Limited

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9FB

Dear Sir,

Account

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

In reply to your letter dated 12 December 2006; by your actions you are now prepared to let me add damages for defamation to my claim for unlawful charges applied to this account.

You know full well this account has been dispute from the day you applied the first unlawful charge. My previous correspondence with your office will also support this.

You are aware I have already applied for all documentation held by you regarding this account. Subject Access request to Data Controller dated 7 December 2006 I request you would also provide the following: -

• Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist between myself and your organisation, including copies of any documents you hold in support of same.

• Details of the identity of any individuals or organisations who have provided you with my personal information together with copies of any letters of instruction provided by them, or any contracts entered into between yourselves and the third party, and the relevant dates to which those contracts related.

• Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.
  
• Full details and copies of any documents upon which you relied when you have provided my personal or financial information to any individual, organisation or third party.

• Full copies or transcripts of any computer logs or database records kept in relation to myself or in relation to my financial or personal information.

• Full copies of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to myself.

• Details of all systems you currently have in place to ensure my personal or financial information is kept securely, including details of those officers who currently have control of same, and at the time it was held or provided to a third party.

• Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

Full hard copy print outs of any of my personal or financial information held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices

In fairness to MBNA Bank Europe Ltd., I will be claiming the unlawful charges applied to the account, any interest applied associated with these unlawful charges and I will be claiming this at daily compound contractual rate from the day of the first unlawful charge applied to this account.

I will be claiming damages for harassment and for the criminal breaches of the Acts already made known to MBNA.

I will be claiming damages for defamation if you apply a default notice to this account while it is in dispute.

I will be claiming costs.

Terms and conditions do not make your course of action lawful; the analogy, if my terms and conditions state I am going to give you a punch in the eye if you do not comply, and I punch you in the eye, this does not make my action lawful.

I was hoping this matter could be settled amicably, but your office has prevented this by the aggressive and inflammatory demeanor in your retaliatory correspondence to me.

Yours sincerely

Phillipa Smith

Cc Cambridge Constabulary CC-xxxxxxxxxxx

Hertfordshire Constabulary (information)

Office of Fair Trading L/Complaint/32811

Information Commissioner’s Office (Data Protection Act)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

This means they have added another £182 to this account in 24 hours.

[iwannabedebtfree]

very very very good letter battleaxe, i am finding MBNA complete pains in the A** at the moment, and just want to drag them through the courts and let them explain to a judge why they are treating their customers so poorly!

[Guest Battleaxe]

I have to admit I plagerised some of that letter from another CAGer,asking for all the bits and pieces it worked on our other MBNA claim, we got what we asked for and it was an eye opener, so I thought I would repeat the process to keep them busy

[tamadus]

Just to let you know I have today recieved a reply from MBNA on A&L letterhead.

 

Basically they are sayingthey have no idea why A&L cashed the £10 cheque and that they are sending a copy of the agreement within the next 10 days lmao.

 

They have claimed charges on the account toal £174 and they are arranging to send a cheque for £104 as full settlement as they have already refunded £70. This is in order to resolve the matter. Sorry to both of them but interest is owed on any charges and I want the data to calculate the charges myself.

 

NO refund has been recieved whatsoever.

 

They also claim a letter was sent in March 2003 informing that MBNA were administering the account. Only trouble is no letter was recieved as the account had been closed by then.

 

It's obvious neither A&L or MBNA intend to satisfy the SAR so I am submitting a formal complaint to the ICO this weekend and sending a letter informing both A&L and MBNA. I'm also going to steal some of your bits about misleading info Battleaxe

[Guest Battleaxe]

Tamadus

 

I managed to get these bits from MBNA after talking to the Compliance Department Manager, she was very obliging, but cannot prove that we actually recieved this documentation when the change happened. We keep everything and if it had arrived we would have it filed.

 

[tamadus]

Thanks Battleaxe those are useful but my point isthis account was closed prior to MBNA taking it over, therefore the SAR was sent to the correct place. The person involved even had a telephone call yesterday saying the data was on its way and this letter arrived this morning lol.

 

In this letter they are point blank refusing to provide the data requested in the SAR. They expect the woman to accept their word over charges and to take the money paid.

 

They now have a problem as I am reporting this to the ICO as blatantly ignoring their obligations under the DPA and denying this person their legal rights.

[Guest Battleaxe]

I think I know the answer. A & L microfiched all the records prior to 2001 and handed them over to MBNA, but only those from 2001. MBNA had to get the 2000 records from A & L for our SAR and they are a real mess. it took me two days to make head or tail of the mess. I bet this is why they are not prepared to hand them over.

 

The ICO told me all the bank had to hand was hand them over, it was my job to try and understand the microfiched records. MBNA told me they could not reproduce in a format that was easy to follow, because in Court it could construed that they had tampered with the records. I have one month of six entries spread over three sheets of paper, but the strange thing is, I cannot pick up any charges on the microfiched records and I know there were charges during that time. There were also missing months, which I made MBNA chase up for me.

 

Tamadus, you are going to have your work cut out, if they don't co-operate. I am still waiting for my damges claim for non-compliance to be paid, they have until Thursday, to lodge a defence. No defemce on Friday morning I am applying for judgement by default.

[stan5131]

Ah... found your thread.

 

Regarding your unintelligible statments, part of the act specifies that they have to provide your data in an intelligible form.

 

With regards to MBNA and A&L. MBNA own several hundred credit cards inlcuding Abbey National, and many more. In the same way that Barclays own the Argos Card and Littlewoods amongsts others.

[Guest Battleaxe]

MBNA are pack of smarties, or they think they are. yesterday I got another letter regarding the loan account and they returned the £10.00 SAR fee, same as they did for the credit card, only this time they have left it too late, because by the time return the £10.00 with identification, going in thsis morning's post recorded delivery it will be Monday when they receive it which is the 8th and they have until 4pm on the 11th to have ALL the documentation in my hands. mI am going to prepare my N1 for non-compliance and be standing at the Court house door when the staff arrive, so it will be filed the same day. In the meantime I am preparing my spreadsheet for the credit card and getting my prelim letter off to them. Let's see how they like having all these balls up in the air with me. Good thing I can multi task.

 

Isn't it wonderful what these companies are letting us discover about their holdings. They dsay they are transparent, well my cat's bathwater is more transparent.

[livelylad]

Go get em Girl.