Hello NMAG goodbye CAG

[heliosuk]

Rather odd????

 

I seem to remember looking in earlier and there was a message to G &M from Bankfodder. Now it's disappeared.

 

Whilst it was quite innocuous it does sort of suggest or send the wrong signals that an undemocratic organisation has taken over this section of the forum as a whole.

 

And I agree with post 25.

 

CAG has enough power to deal with the issues that NMAG have. CAG is already a known and respected force.

 

NMAG adds no value, has a contentious history and frankly will bring the site into disrepute.

 

Get rid of before Private Eye get on the case.

[tomtubby]

Green & Mean.

 

I had not seen this thread until this morning and felt that I really ought to comment.

 

Firstly, the CAG forum has most certainly NOT been "taken over" by a defunct LMAG. As you may know I post mainly on the bailiff part of the site and I remember very well only last year getting into a rather heated "discussion" and like you....I also decided to stop posting.

 

A few days later I realised that in the past 4 years or so I have provided assistance on the forum to over 4,000 people. In your case, you started posting on the forum quite some time before I did and you have helped over 7,000 individuals. To be thruthful...you can be grumpy and blunt but this in no way take away from the fact that your advise is excellent !!

 

There are probably only a handful of contributors who have continued posting for such a long period of time and your advise in the past...and hopefully in the future is invaluable.

 

It would seem that you have something of a "personal" issue with those behind NMAG but even so, surely providing assistance to people on the forums is more important.

 

S.

[green_and_mean]

It would seem that you have something of a "personal" issue with those behind NMAG but even so, surely providing assistance to people on the forums is more important.

 

S.

 

I have no personal issues with anyone the issues I have is logging on only to find out that the site has suddenly become the forum of NMAG a group that seemingly appeared overnight and has connections with several failed forums in the past. I have suspicions that one of the people involved is being less than honest about his true identity but that is not the issue. My issue is that as yet no one from the site team has answered as to why a clearly commercial enterprise is being touted on CAG and of what benefit is it to anyone landing on the CAG forum to be directed to the NMAG site? These commercial sites are no better than the hoards of PPI reclaiming companies that spam my inbox everyday and CAG should not have in my view jumped into bed with them without consulting present members.

[tomtubby]

Thank you Green & Mean for your response.

 

The fact still remains, there are members of the public that require assistance and your contribution ( and maybe mine to a much lesser degree) are urgently required. Surely that must be the most important point.

[heliosuk]

I have no personal issues with anyone the issues I have is logging on only to find out that the site has suddenly become the forum of NMAG a group that seemingly appeared overnight and has connections with several failed forums in the past. I have suspicions that one of the people involved is being less than honest about his true identity but that is not the issue. My issue is that as yet no one from the site team has answered as to why a clearly commercial enterprise is being touted on CAG and of what benefit is it to anyone landing on the CAG forum to be directed to the NMAG site? These commercial sites are no better than the hoards of PPI reclaiming companies that spam my inbox everyday and CAG should not have in my view jumped into bed with them without consulting present members.

 

This is exactly my issue G&M. The site team are conspicuously absent with comment as to the reason why which suggests some sort of skulduggery going on. What G&M has also subsequently highlighted would nomally mean any organisation suspending the affiliation straight away subject to an investigation and consultation with members. However this has not happened.

 

It's not a case of members giving advice, it's a case of another questionable organisation piggy backing off the back of CAG for commercial advantage of which the beneficiarries appear to be private individuals.

 

If affiliation is to be considered a good option then one would expect a similar track record, with a similar forum and similar standing which NMAG clearly does not have.

 

I personally think the site team have put the whole of GAG at risk here and to allay fears ought to publish what the due dilligence process they went through.

[GuidoT]

A decision to link up with NMAG has been made and CAG will see how that goes.

 

Any change sees some people upset and users leave and that is their own personal choice, but CAG still continues.

 

Personally I would prefer neither heliosUK or grean_and_mean leave as they post valuable contributions and help many people.

 

As tomtubby says the most important point is that we help members of the public.

 

You can rest assured that if NMAG act contrary to CAG's ethos overall, then any links with NMAG will have to be reconsidered.

 

There is no conspicuous absence, we just choose not to take part in these discussions as the decision has been made (but like many things is subject to review) and the site team have many other things to do. It is a big old forum and the site team give there time for free and you can rest assured that I would be out of here if I thought something untoward was going on.

 

I doubt this post will allay all the concerns, but we cannot please everyone all the time. I only posted as I do not want helpful users to think they are being ignored and go some way to responding to the conjecture.

[tomtubby]

Guido T

 

Thank you for making the position clear.

 

Green & Mean has provided excellent assistance on the forum and I would sincerely hope that he continues to do so.

[green_and_mean]

NMAG operations ltd of Swains Lane N6 has the same trading address listed at companies house as Neil Herron Consultancy ltd in Sunderland another commercial company that charges large companies for advice on parking. The whole thing stinks and as Guido has kindly pointed out anyone is free to leave and I will rather than have my advice used to further the commercial companies that have taken over the forum.

Its rather amusing that the people behind this scheme are using the same technique as the private parking companies who use a group of different companies (enforcers, solicitors, debt collectors etc) to give the impression of legitimacy whilst at NMAG we have Neil Herron using the money given by donors to the Motorists Legal Challenge fund to fight cases in the High Court whilst at the same time charging companies for parking appeals all under the guise of a 'campaign group' which most people would assume was non profit making. At the same time he is advising people to use Penaltychargenotice site for 'paid for' advice knowing full well the person behind it is also a part of the NMAG group. I actually work as a consultant myself so I don't think I will be giving my advice free whilst a select few who are now behind this forum earn off my advice.

[tomtubby]

Green & Mean.

 

Your advice on the forum is needed and you must surely know this.

 

Please put personal issues to one side and instead, consider the many members of the public who are so desperate for your help.

[Bandit127]

I am a new member on this forum.

 

So far, my ability to help others in a similar situation to me with knowledge gained from other posters (and experts) here and bitter experience has not diminished.

 

I find it sad that members of much greater standing and expertise than me are thinking of leaving on a point of principle. To do so would deprive the next generation of people, some in serious trouble, of the expert advice they deserve.

 

It is those experts that truly make CAG work. And will continue to make CAG work.

 

Association with a site of debatable quality really doesn't mean much IMO. People who really need our help will still Google and find CAG. And still need the help of the experts. Google is unlikely to deprecate CAG.

 

As above, the advice given by the experts like G&M (and most of the site team actually) are really what makes CAG what it is.

 

IMO.

[crem]

You can rest assured that if NMAG act contrary to CAG's ethos overall, then any links with NMAG will have to be reconsidered.

 

but what no one from the site team seems to have touched on at all, is what is CAG supposed to be benefitting from with this link up? Have CAG received funds? (been bought out?) or what?

 

If there is no financial or reputational benefit to CAG, then the association seems pointless.

[tomtubby]

Bandit. Excellent post.

 

Crem: This forum is PRIVATELY owned and whatever (if any) financial benefit will be enjoyed is frankly of nobody's business and it is very worrying indeed that members of the public are trying to make it their business.

 

There are MANY forums on the web covering a huge range of subjects from veterinary advice, household repairs, gardening queries, motoring and parking issues etc and large multi advice sites such as Money Saving Expert. In order to cover overheads, so many of these forums have commercial links. That is surely the site owners business.

 

What we should all be pleased with is that a site such as this exists and most importantly.....that we have "experts" including "Green & Mean" who are willing to share their expertise with others who needs help. Long may it continue.....

[crem]

Crem: This forum is PRIVATELY owned and whatever (if any) financial benefit will be enjoyed is frankly of nobody's business and it is very worrying indeed that members of the public are trying to make it their business.

 

What we should all be pleased with is that a site such as this exists and most importantly.....that we have "experts" including "Green & Mean" who are willing to share their expertise with others who needs help. Long may it continue.....

 

I don't think it is worrying at all that members are expressing a concern that the advise that they freely give on this site may be being used to promote a financially driven (profit making?) associate site.

[green_and_mean]

I don't think it is worrying at all that members are expressing a concern that the advise that they freely give on this site may be being used to promote a financially driven (profit making?) associate site.

 

Exactly my point with this web of private companies and pseudo campaign groups why should we give free advice? There are already stories on several of the sites linked to NMAG ltd of cases originally posted on CAG where the 'public' are led to believe it was the advice given by the site upon which it was posted that led to the final result rather than the advice given by CAG members. If someone posts of CAG that they got a Bus lane PCN in Timbuktoo and I advise them thats its wrong, I do not wish to see 'Timbuktoo bus lane PCNs invalid - register at penalty charge appeals website to see further details' a few days later.

Since NMAG openly states it is willing to recommend affiliate companies to give 'paid for' advice, what guard is there that these companies are not going to approach members through PM and either hijack the case to promote their business or give paid for advice?

It should be made clear on the NMAG site what connection there is between all these 'affiliate' companies and NMAG. If I was recommended NH consulting ltd to give my company professional parking advice by NMAG I wouldn't be that amused to later find out they were financially conected!

The CAG line is this is a powerful campaign group that will add credibility to CAG, on what basis is this claim made?

NMAG is a new ltd company with no track record of anything?

LMAG the previous company disapeared without trace, yet share the same address and company secretary

The Motorists legal challenge fund bankrolled a failed case in the High Court and has done little else despite a lot of financial support.

What exactly is the point of this connection? All this is doing is making CAG look as dubious as the people its supposed to be fighting.

[green_and_mean]

Bandit. Excellent post.

 

Crem: This forum is PRIVATELY owned and whatever (if any) financial benefit will be enjoyed is frankly of nobody's business and it is very worrying indeed that members of the public are trying to make it their business.

 

There are MANY forums on the web covering a huge range of subjects from veterinary advice, household repairs, gardening queries, motoring and parking issues etc and large multi advice sites such as Money Saving Expert. In order to cover overheads, so many of these forums have commercial links. That is surely the site owners business.

 

What we should all be pleased with is that a site such as this exists and most importantly.....that we have "experts" including "Green & Mean" who are willing to share their expertise with others who needs help. Long may it continue.....

 

You are not 'affiliated' with this group by any chance are you??

[caro]

Exactly my point with this web of private companies and pseudo campaign groups why should we give free advice?

 

Because there are still people who can't afford to pay for help so resources like CAG (if there are any others like it) are essential for them.

 

There are already stories on several of the sites linked to NMAG ltd of cases originally posted on CAG where the 'public' are led to believe it was the advice given by the site upon which it was posted that led to the final result rather than the advice given by CAG members.

 

This has been happening ever since CAG started as a campaign site against bank charges and is very annoying. It is not the site that is the important thing though - it's that the word gets out there and people are empowered. Very often people will find the information out there on the web, and once they look further they find CAG and see how much we have here. By affiliating with NMAG more people will be directed to CAG from their forums. If they have the choice of paying or coming to CAG for free advice I think most will go for the free option.

 

If someone posts of CAG that they got a Bus lane PCN in Timbuktoo and I advise them thats its wrong, I do not wish to see 'Timbuktoo bus lane PCNs invalid - register at penalty charge appeals website to see further details' a few days later.

Since NMAG openly states it is willing to recommend affiliate companies to give 'paid for' advice, what guard is there that these companies are not going to approach it's members through PM and either hijack the case to promote their business or give paid for advice?

 

This is something that the site team would monitor, as we do on all areas of the site. CAG is free and touting for business is against the forum rules. If you or anyone else is aware of this happening then please hit the black triangle on the post in question to report it and the site team will investigate.

 

It should be made clear on the NMAG site what connection there is between all these 'affiliate' companies and NMAG. If I was recommended NH consulting ltd to give my company professional parking advice by NMAG I wouldn't be that amused to later find out they were financially conected!

The CAG line is this is a powerful campaign group that will add credibility to CAG, on what basis is this claim made?

NMAG is a new ltd company with no track record of anything?

LMAG the previous company disapeared without trace, yet share the same address and company secretary

The Motorists legal challenge fund bankrolled a failed case in the High Court and has done little else despite a lot of financial support.

What exactly is the point of this connection? All this is doing is making CAG look as dubious as the people its supposed to be fighting.

 

The point is to get the word out there and work together. CAG has often been attacked for removing links to other sites.

 

I don't pretend to know all the answers to your concerns, but I do think it's worth giving the affiliation a chance and let's see if we can all help each other.

[heliosuk]

Well Ok then.

 

Perhaps G&M and I should set up a National Motorists Advice Group with links to companies who can give advice for a fee and get an alleged refferal payment or benefit in kind. And the best bit is it seems, the site team at CAG will jump straight into bed and allow the National Motorists Advice Group to use CAG as their forum. Great stuff this!

 

I know, lets also start an action in the courts.

 

Mug punters will donate as they think it is wrong but the good thing is the time is paid for.

 

Now to realility.

 

NMAG serves no useful purpose to CAG. CAG has more influence than NMAG. By the site teams own limited replies they admit this is the case by constantly pointing out that engine searches will direct to CAG. This sort of contradicts the benefit they claim will be enjoyed by the affiliation with NMAG.

 

Because there are still people who can't afford to pay for help so resources like CAG (if there are any others like it) are essential for them.

Exactly so why does there need to be an affliation such as NMAG.

 

I've had yet another look tonight at NMAG and there is nothing there that cannot be found on CAG and as regards getting the word out about CAG well that's just rubbish. Cag already has major recognition even on radio stations.

 

No...........there is more to this and the abscence or controlled messages from the site team only fuels speculation.

 

If CAG wants to nuke this issue then it's pretty obvious.

 

Cut the affiliation and then carry out a due diligence process ( which they have fialed to declare went on so far) and then suggest an affiliation and ask for a vote.

 

NMAG might be an organisation to go with but so far the evidence suggests that it not a reputable organisation and has commercial links which is going against the rules of the site. The site team cannot have itone way and then the other.

 

Frankly this affiliation smells all around and it is a very bad smell.

[BankFodder]

Everyone has had their last word now and this thread is going round in circles.

I'm closing the thread.