paternity while working notice period

[maxpdaddy]

Hi All,

 

I have a fairly urgent problem with my current employer and my paternity rights.

 

I am working the second of 4 weeks notice after resigning to move to a new career, my partner gave birth to our son late on Friday night after 3 days of labor which i was present for, the birth was finally by Cesarean Section which had complications meaning while she is now home she is quite incapacitated for the next week or two and requires my help to shower, get up take care of baby etc. I rang my boss this morning to tell him that my child was born and i would be taking the rest of this week for sure and will see about next week.

 

He told me that he can not accept this and he needs me back in towards the later part of this week as the company is very busy and "it is my responsibility to make sure everything i do is handed over to someone else before i finish my employment" he then said that paternity is not a holiday it is a period of 10 working days (2 weeks) to take when i need it over the course of 2 years for parental duties etc... i stated that there is no way i can leave her or our baby at the moment as she will struggle to care for him and herself. There were then a series of lectures on how i could get someone to care for her,( theres no one we know and she would rather it was me considering the personal nature of the care needed). he also gave me his opinions on how women are sent home far too early after birth these days and how if she had stayed in hospital this wouldn't be a problem.

 

i am concerned that i never actually gave written notice that i was taking paternity. My boss preferring to do things verbally.. but i have been advised that if i was not asked for written notice, then verbal notice was good enough (this was given pretty much when we knew she was pregnant).

i also believe i read somewhere that i had to confirm weather i was taking 1 or 2 weeks notice which never happened.

 

so questions...

 

1. can he control how much paternity i take

 

2. how much does the written notice and length requested matter ?? can this be verbal only

 

3. does any terms written in the contract or handbook over rule my statutory rights to 2 weeks leave?

 

4. does working my notice affect this in any way??

 

5. i really dont want to work at this company anymore once i finish my paternity time i will have a week left to work can i request garden leave or just not bother going ??

 

 

I think that's all the info, any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you in advance

 

Regards

 

Mark

[Emmzzi]

Here's the official guidelines, and the notice does need to be in writing. Note it also has to be a block of 2 weeks, not odd days.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Moneyandworkentitlements/WorkAndFamilies/Paternityrightsintheworkplace/DG_10029398

[becky2585]

How long did you work there before your child was born?

 

There are circumstances, like a partner giving birth prematurely, which may allow you to take it without notice, but check emmzzis link as I'm not 100% sure whether you had to give written notice of an intended date before trying to alter it. It's a tricky one, but practically, you're entitled to unpaid emergency dependent leave anyway so I fail to see how they'll stop you!

[maxpdaddy]

Thank you for the replies.

 

I have been working for this company 1½ years, i spoke to my boss a long time ago and asked how i go about giving notice for the paternity whether there was a standard form, do it by email or signed dated letter etc.. his response was that it was not needed and "we can just play it by ear" i am starting to believe that he does not intend to give me actual paternity, just hope that he can convince me to have as few days as possible and just cover them himself... i dont know if there are any financial or 'less paperwork' reasons he would do this, he does not seem to enjoy going to the tax / HMRC people as i remember he once told me there was no point sorting the emergency / month 1 tax code id been on even though he'd been contacted with my correct code.. because there was only 4 months of the tax year to go.

 

The guidelines state that you can give short notice for paternity with a good reason... well i think telling me not to bother is a fairly good reason... any opinions though ?

 

Regards

 

Mark

[Emmzzi]

Ignorance of the law is not a good reason especially when google tells you the answers in under a minute.

 

You have no valid reason for not telling him in writing. According to directgov you therefore lose your entitlement.

[maxpdaddy]

Ignorance of the law is not a good reason especially when google tells you the answers in under a minute.

 

You have no valid reason for not telling him in writing. According to directgov you therefore lose your entitlement.

blunt and to the point... how about a smile with some of these replies??

 

yes i admit i was ignorant of the law... that's why i asked my employer what my rights are and how to go about setting up my paternity, surely they should be somewhat aware of the processes since they most likely have X amount of employees who have gone through this... and im doing this for the first time...why should i need to google it ? but instead of giving me the information i needed they have mislead me and are now trying to make me come back in to work after a couple of days... they tell me that i am on paternity but its not to be taken all at once.. this is wrong i am entitled to 2 weeks continuous leave so clearly they are talking rubbish.

 

please dont preach to me about Google either, i am a embedded computer systems designer & programmer and live my life on computers i probably use Google more times a day then you.. i dont use the automated tills in the supermarkets i go to the humanoid ones because its nice to disconnect for 5 minutes and have a chat with a friendly face from my local area... well same thing here... was it wrong of me to expect that some percentage of the population could and should still be able to answer my questions and concerns without using a keyboard?

 

having read other posts on here you appear to be very much for the employer and not the employee... well here's a news flash... employees make mistake yes... but employers make mistakes and can also be quite difficult and unfair.. my boss made it clear in the conversation that he can not allow me my full paternity leave as they are just too busy well that is not my problem... and i dont think this would have been any different whether i gave correct notice or not... the fact remains that my partner and newborn son require care, i have to give her injections daily at a time when i would be working... i have to help her in and out of the shower and to get changed and then do all the care for a newborn baby... she is very upset at having to load this all onto me and the reaction from my employer has made this a million times worse. but having seen the level of your compassion on this site i wouldn't expect you to understand... i agree that sometimes people need telling factual information clearly and to the point... but if you cant advise in a non biased and friendly way... please dont bother...

[Emmzzi]

I can flannel you, or I can tell you the truth from an employer's and legal perspective.

 

Only one of these things is going to be useful. I'd rather be useful than fluffy. The employer's perspective is what most posters here do not have an understanding of, because they don't work for employer's HR department or spend much time dealing with lawyers.

 

If I'm taking 5 mins out of my lunchbreak, no, you don't get smileys. I smile when people are paying for my time. You think I'm bad, wait til you speak to opposing counsel.

[honeybee13]

Hello maxpdaddy.

 

I'm sure we all feel for you with what you're going through, it must be tough. Try not to take it personally, that isn't how it's meant.

 

Emmzzi may not have time to sugarcoat what she says, but from reading what she says on the forum, she knows her stuff. I would venture to say that the guys on this forum just want to help caggers to achieve a good outcome for themselves wherever possible. And they give good information.

 

We're here to help.

 

My best, HB

[maxpdaddy]

You make some fair points there and I'm sorry about getting stroppy... Newborn sleepless nights and all that. it's just I know what my boss can be like this appears to be typical of him and with hindsight I should maybe have done the research myself but i went straight to him because as is me I like to think people are better then that.

[maxpdaddy]

To be clear emmzzi I do apologise for the outburst...

[honeybee13]

We have a sorry smiley. I suspect Emmzzi can handle it.

 

How's the baby doing now?

 

HB

[Emmzzi]

No worries maxpaddy. Exhaustion is not easy.

 

Your next issue I suspect is going to be when he attempts not to pay you for time off. Make sure you get a very detailed payslip for that, with a full breakdown and come back. (while crossing fingers he shows some decency.)

[freakyleaky]

Hello Maxpaddy.

Just letting you know that I can only agree with what has been said above by Honeybee.

Emmzzi says it as it is without any frills. The easyjet of the forums if you like.

 

There are plenty on here who could simply sympathise and agree and tell you what you want to hear but that is not what you need.

 

I suggest you keep Emmzzi as your friend as she really does know her stuff.

 

If you want morale support and tons of smilies then start a thread in the bear garden.:-)

[honeybee13]

No worries maxpaddy. Exhaustion is not easy.

 

Your next issue I suspect is going to be when he attempts not to pay you for time off. Make sure you get a very detailed payslip for that, with a full breakdown and come back. (while crossing fingers he shows some decency.)

 

That's big of you, Emmzzi. Group hug?

[Emmzzi]

heh. Today the board is a happy relief from the day job (budgeting spreadsheets argh!!)

[honeybee13]

I'll leave you to play nicely then. I have to go away from the board for a while now.

[maxpdaddy]

Hi All,

 

sorry to drag up an older thread but i didn't want to type this all again...

 

so after a chat with the CAB, ACAS and some other legal bods... i sent my employer an email last week stating that i had come to him regarding my paternity leave and that i had taken what he told me to be true, but under advice from others i had checked the government guidelines and found what he'd told me to be a load of rubbish.... therefore i believed that i had fulfilled my obligations by approaching him in the first instance well before the 15 week notice deadline and any failure on my part was down to the information he supplied...therefore i would be taking my 2 weeks paternity. i also mentioned that he had caused quite severe distress and tension to both myself and more importantly my partner who had undergone major surgery with complications. and this whole incident had over shadowed what should have been a happy few days bonding with our newborn son and relaxing.

 

his reply to this email was that he totally agreed with me and that he was sorry for the upset caused etc... do you think this is an admission of guilt on his part ?

 

my first question is what could i do about this ? could i take legal action regarding this? not that im going to... im happy to just let it go but i want to know how serious it was and what power i might have... namely because of my next question.

 

I am in my four weeks notice after resigning to start a new job... next week is my last week and this week is the end of my paternity... i really really really dont want to go back for 5 days, this incident had really upset me and my partner... it had caused me physical illness in the form of stress induced anxiety and i've been having chest pains , panic attacks and been breathless all week. I'm even more anxious about the thought of going back and im hoping to see the doctor tomorrow (if i can ever get an appointment)

Not only am i angry to the point i might actually lose my temper and do or say something i regret especially if he starts trying to make excuses for why he gave me mis-information. Im also the only one of 3 computer engineers who knows how certain systems work, who knows the programming for software we develop and who some of the clients only like to work with. i know that if i go back for 1 week i am going to be harassed and drilled about work to be completed and information passed over... there is more then 1 weeks work to be completed and i shall be under immense pressure to get this done which wont help my previously mentioned temper and anxiety... you can clearly see there will be no benefit to me or the company if i go into work.

 

Sorry this is getting a bit long... so questions

 

Could i write to my boss and say that its not worth me coming in due to the bad feeling.. but i would be willing to work from home finishing off notes and updating documentation etc... if he wants i would finish my notice as of this week and take next week as a break between jobs unpaid etc but im still willing to pass on the information to the other engineers via private email.

 

Should i approach my doctor and ask to be signed off for the week in fear for my health.. however could this somehow impact on my new job ?

 

Can i use rights to time off to care for dependants as my partner is still quite poorly.

 

Or any other ideas anyone might have...

 

Any opinions are greatly appreciated..

 

Regards

 

Mark

Edited October 4, 2012 by maxpdaddy
make it sound better

[Emmzzi]

Here's a radical thoguht. The last conversation went well - he overlooked the lack of notice in writing. If he were a swine he wouldn't have.

 

Have a conversation? I mean it - park all the legalese and have a conversation.