UK Debts / Living In Nz / Returning to UK.

[thedtb]

Hey All,

 

So, as per the title, myself and my wife have unsecured debts (Loans, Overdrafts & CC's) in the UK, but we live in NZ and have done for 3 years.

 

Our house in the UK never sold and so is currently rented out and just about covers itself. It runs at a loss of circa £25 per month. We have never missed a mortgage repayment.

 

For the first 18mths or so after coming to NZ we successfully kept up with UK debt repayments, but then I lost my job and we weren't able to maintain those payments anymore - any of them.

 

I spent quite some time repeatedly writing to the various companies advising them that we were in NZ (up and until that point we had our UK mail redirected out here), requesting freezes of interest and repayment holidays for up to 6 months, initially. Some of them complied without fuss and others either ignored my letters or point-blank refused to help.

 

6mths came and went and with me still out of work (and I remain so still) I was unable to offer any of of them any form of offer of repayment and with little in the way of help/support from those companies, I simply started sticking my head in the sand, "confident" (to an extent) that being in NZ meant we were somewhat untouchable.

 

The debts have since been sold on to a range of DCA's and apart from perhaps two-or-three letters per month (and one recent phone call to my wife's place of work from an American company on behalf of one of the companies we both owe money to) we don't really hear very much from them. The letters range from offering us discounted settlements, to threatening to pass the debt on to a local firm to pursue us for it.

 

I should though point out that some of the companies that my wife owes money to, continued to refuse to acknowledge we (she) are not in the UK and with them no longer writing to us I'm a little concerned that they're still working with our UK house address.

 

An employment opportunity has now been presented to me/us, that would, if we go with it, involve us moving back to the UK.

 

It's a great opportunity, given that it would get us back to both having a salary (we've been surviving on just my wife's salary alone for the past 18 mths or so and it's been far from easy, particularly with three kids under 7yrs.)...

 

We're very concerned though that if we do this, what would happen once the companies that are chasing us, become aware that we're back in the UK? E.g. we don't want to move back to the UK to accept this job(s) and everything else that such a move would entail, only to then find that the companies we owe money force us in to bankruptcy and we lose the house etc.

 

I figure my options (rightly or wrongly) are:

 

• Forgo this opportunity, stay in NZ and continue to ignore everything that comes through from the DCA's, whilst continuing to seek out employment here etc.
  
• Move back to the UK, but leave these companies with our NZ PO Box address that they're already writing to. But run the risk of being discovered and incur their wrath as a result.
  
• Move back to the UK, attempt to come to an arrangement with each of these companies over a nominal monthly repayment until such time as we can offer something more substantial.
  

Either way, as exciting as this opportunity is, I can't help thinking that moving back to the UK would open the flood-gates to a whole heap of trouble!

 

I can't really see the woods for the trees right now, does anyone fancy trying to shed some light on the pitfalls of us returning to the UK?

 

PS. combined, our mutual debts (prior to whatever charges and interest have been added on since we were no longer able to service them) came to around £45k, split roughly equal between us.

 

[citizenB]

I know of a couple of people who have been unable to secure work in New Zealand and are now looking to Australia. In fact one of these did telephone me this morning to say that he has secured employment over there.

 

However that doesnt help you.

 

Questions

 

Are any of these debts secured on your UK property.

 

What type of debts are they.

 

Do you know if there are any default charges applied to any of the debts.

 

Did you have Payment Protection Insurance on and of the accounts - which could possibly have mis sold and is reclaimable.

 

I am sure the tenants of your property would have adivsed if any court papers had arrived so it would appear that no attempt has been made to obtain a County Court Judgment with a charge on the property.

 

Although you might want to check - it will cost you £4.00

 

http://www.trustonline.org.uk/

 

 

Almost certainly if you were to move back to the UK and pop yourself on the electoral roll you will likely be traced.

 

Which company are refusing to acknowledge you are in New Zealand ?

 

I will flag your thread for some more expert advice for you.

[citizenB]

Fyi

 

whilst they are in nz they are pretty much untouchable but as soon as they're back in the uk the goal-posts will have moved & their creditors/dcas will act as they normally do here.

[thedtb]

Are any of these debts secured on your UK property.

 

None of them.

 

What type of debts are they.

 

Overdrafts, Credit Cards, Personal Loans.

 

Do you know if there are any default charges applied to any of the debts.

 

Off the top of my head I don't recall, but I can look through the statements and check. Why do you ask?

 

Did you have Payment Protection Insurance on and of the accounts - which could possibly have mis sold and is reclaimable.

 

I don't believe so.

 

I am sure the tenants of your property would have adivsed if any court papers had arrived so it would appear that no attempt has been made to obtain a County Court Judgment with a charge on the property.

 

Although you might want to check - it will cost you £4.00

 

http://www.trustonline.org.uk/

 

Thanks for the link. I've just checked England & Wales Orders & Judgments for both myself and my wife and currently there's nothing registered.

 

Which company are refusing to acknowledge you are in New Zealand ?

 

I remember Egg initially refused to do so for me but they eventually relented. I can't find any record that they did the same for my wife though and we haven't received anything from them for ages!

[thedtb]

Fyi

 

whilst they are in nz they are pretty much untouchable but as soon as they're back in the uk the goal-posts will have moved & their creditors/dcas will act as they normally do here.

 

I guess it's the "...will act as they normally do here" bit that I'm trying to quantify.

 

What will we be subjected to if we land back in the UK? Is it likely that it would be too late to negotiate a repayment schedule (assuming my new employment meant I could afford to - which I expect it would) or would they (Creditors/DCA's etc) just go straight for the jugular and pursue the house?

[citizenB]

Default charges can be reclaimed - on loans and credit cards, not the overdraft.

 

Pity about the PPI - if mis sold, that might have made a hefty dent in anything owed.

 

I guess it's the "...will act as they normally do here" bit that I'm trying to quantify.

 

What will we be subjected to if we land back in the UK? Is it likely that it would be too late to negotiate a repayment schedule (assuming my new employment meant I could afford to - which I expect it would) or would they (Creditors/DCA's etc) just go straight for the jugular and pursue the house?

 

 

Thankfully they cannot simply go straight for the jugular and pursue the house.

 

They would need to first track you down - then they would have to follow a procedure of asking you nicely, asking you not so nicely, issuing a Default Notice, formal demand only after complying with the rules of defaulting are they then able to issue a claim.

 

You would probably be best advised on initial contact from either Creditor or DCA to immediately establish if they are the owner of the account - some of the debts might have been assigned/sold to the DCAs. Then you should immediately ask for a copy of the contract that exists or is claimed to exist, along with terms and conditions at inception and default. Whilst the company remains in default of what is called an s78 (CCA request) they are not permitted to take the final act of obtaining a judgment (indeed in theory they shouldnt even issue a claim until they can comply). This all buys you time in order to get yourself organised and settled.

 

How old are these debts apart from the overdraft.. if entered into prior to 2007 you have the full protection of the CCA1974 act. If after, then it was somewhat watered down a bit

 

If you were to decide to return to the UK - would you return as a family unit or would you return first to take up the new employment and find accommodation (assuming your UK property still has tenants).

[thedtb]

Default charges can be reclaimed - on loans and credit cards, not the overdraft.

 

Pity about the PPI - if mis sold, that might have made a hefty dent in anything owed.

 

I'll dig out the various statements and start searching for Default Charges and PPI.

 

Thankfully they cannot simply go straight for the jugular and pursue the house.

 

They would need to first track you down - then they would have to follow a procedure of asking you nicely, asking you not so nicely, issuing a Default Notice, formal demand only after complying with the rules of defaulting are they then able to issue a claim.

 

You would probably be best advised on initial contact from either Creditor or DCA to immediately establish if they are the owner of the account - some of the debts might have been assigned/sold to the DCAs. Then you should immediately ask for a copy of the contract that exists or is claimed to exist, along with terms and conditions at inception and default. Whilst the company remains in default of what is called an s78 (CCA request) they are not permitted to take the final act of obtaining a judgment (indeed in theory they shouldnt even issue a claim until they can comply). This all buys you time in order to get yourself organised and settled.

 

Seems like excellent advice to me - thank you so much for taking the time!

 

How old are these debts apart from the overdraft.. if entered into prior to 2007 you have the full protection of the CCA1974 act. If after, then it was somewhat watered down a bit

 

From memory, I'm fairly sure that with the exception of my Personal Loan, everything else are agreements incepted prior to 2007.

 

If you were to decide to return to the UK - would you return as a family unit or would you return first to take up the new employment and find accommodation (assuming your UK property still has tenants).

 

All 5 of us would return to the UK at the same time. There are a number of family members who'd be able and willing to put us up for up to a month whilst we find our feet.

 

In terms of our house, it's a difficult one because we have been very fortunate to find ourselves with fantastic tenants. We'd have to choose between giving them notice and moving back in to that house ourselves (though it was starting to get a little small for us and two kids when we left the UK in '09 - now we've got 3 kids!), or allowing them to stay whilst we find somewhere else to rent. However I'm assuming that if we apply to rent anywhere we're going to be credit-checked and that may well mean that we have no choice but to go back to our old house.

[citizenB]

Yes, almost certainly you would find yourself credit checked if you were to rent somewhere.

 

Then of course you will need to set up bank accounts - best there would probably be to have a basic bank account - I think credit checks are minimal with those although it will mean you would unlikely have any overdraft facility or cheque books available.

 

You would certainly need to obtain your credit files from the 3 main agencies in order to see what type of adverse reporting has been going on.

 

Although this might be a little tricky for you. What address will be on your files ? Will they have a Gone away Notice on them in which case you would be alerting Creditors to you new address.

 

It might be worth thinking a little more on that one. I will try and find someone who knows about these things to advise on that point.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, just catching up on your thread as requested.

 

It would seem that if you stay in NZ any ignore the contact from the UK make no payments to any debt, you would have to wait for the defaulted credit accounts to be removed on the expiry of the defaults so not a good idea.

If you return to the UK you will need to go on the electoral roll, pay council tax etc., as Citizen be said tracing you will happen and probably pretty quickly letting agent will

make credit checks,.

 

As to the property you own is this properly registered at the Land Registry in your names? Is the property ''managed'' for you?

 

My opinion is that you Must check your credit files asap it will not immediately if at all alert any creditors to your doing so, I suggest checking Equifax and Experian first as these two usually have the most up to date records.

 

If there is GAIN information on your file it is a certainty that you will be found sooner than later as this is checked by letting agencies/estate agents.

 

I'm sorry not to be able to offer an immediate solution for you, this I believe will be a trial and error situation you will it seems be better off employed in the UK rather the UE in NZ, will you be able to fund the move back, the deposit, 2 months rent on your return, can you get a reference and a guarantor for instance which can aleviate some of the problems of renting.

[thedtb]

As to the property you own is this properly registered at the Land Registry in your names? Is the property ''managed'' for you?

 

Yes (or at least to my knowledge) the property is registered at the Land Registry in both of our names - it's certainly mortgaged in both of our names!

 

Yes, the property is also managed for us by an Estate Agent.

 

My opinion is that you Must check your credit files asap it will not immediately if at all alert any creditors to your doing so, I suggest checking Equifax and Experian first as these two usually have the most up to date records.

 

If there is GAIN information on your file it is a certainty that you will be found sooner than later as this is checked by letting agencies/estate agents.

 

Up and until a about 6mths ago I used to subscribe to Equifax and I'd get alerted to changes on my/our credit file. I did successfully fend off one attempt at a "Gone Away" notice, because the CC Company claimed we hadn't been in touch with them, but I was able to supply correspondance that I'd sent to them advising them that we'd moved to NZ - prior to this they'd refused to acknowledge my NZ Address. The "Gone Away" entry was permanently removed. However I haven't been able to afford to maintain the subscription.

 

I'll be sure to check our Credit Files and see what's been going on since.

 

I'm sorry not to be able to offer an immediate solution for you, this I believe will be a trial and error situation you will it seems be better off employed in the UK rather the UE in NZ, will you be able to fund the move back, the deposit, 2 months rent on your return, can you get a reference and a guarantor for instance which can aleviate some of the problems of renting.

 

It's a long story, but we're receiving an unexpected lump sum of money in a few months that will be enough (should we choose to use it as such) to cover the costs of returning home, or we can use it as a deposit to buy a house out here - but we favour coming home.

 

We should be able to raise a rental deposit and, through staying with family for the first month or two (whilst working), it's probable we could easily get 2 months rent together. A reference shouldn't be an issue because we've rented 3 houses in our time in NZ - all without issue. A Guarantor shouldn't be too hard either.

 

At the moment I'm torn between landing in the UK and getting straight in touch with the various DCA's to offer repayment plans, or just sitting tight until they find us and then negotiating.

 

The wife is very concerned though about people turning up on the door-step wanting to repossess stuff... given that the only secured borrowing we had/have is the mortgage, what are the chances of bailiffs coming knocking?

[citizenB]

They CANNOT simply turn up on your doorstep and starting clearing out your home. They MUST follow the rules laid down in the CCA 1974 in order to default you, issue formal demands, issue claims, etc. Then they have to be awarded judgment against you and you then fail to pay the judgment debt.

 

So no secured borrowing other than the mortgage - which is being serviced correctly - so you have no problem from that

 

What type of borrowing is left.. credit cards - unsecured loans - catalogues ?

 

When were these accounts opened ? pre 2007 ?

 

Who are they with ?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi again, CB is exactly right you are a long way from bailiffs turning up,and I would suggest getting as settled back in the UK as you can before contacting the DCAs.

[thedtb]

OK people so we're now back in the UK, have been since December.

 

We've not moved back to the house we own, but instead are renting a house that's more suitable (1 extra bedroom) than our own house, since we had an extra child whilst out of the UK.

 

Not heard a peep from any of the companies we owe money to (of course they all still have our address in NZ) until approx 1 month ago when the first letters arrived from R0binson W4y (only the one) and also Low3ll Financial (three in total), both of whom claim to have noticed the "new" address on my credit file and have seemingly speculatively written to me here. They each represent a different company that we owe money to (Lloyds TSB and Marbles).

 

Things are still very close to the bone financially and we live very much to our limits (which really aren't very extravagant at all) so if I was to squeeze out a regular monthly repayment as they each are asking for, I'd only realistically be able to manage a somewhat nominal amount.

 

I'm looking for advice as to whether "the game is up" (for want of a much better phrase) and if the time has come when I don't really have a choice other than to start making at least some kind of repayment. Or, is it an option, if these letters are simply speculative and any further action is unlikely if I should either just write back with a "Unknown at this address" or "you need to write to [NZ ADDRESS]" or, whether it's a realistic option to keep my head in the sand and just play ignorant.

 

Any advice/guidance would be very much appreciated.

[renegadeimp]

Until something solid comes through, treat it as a phishing exercise and dont bite.

[unclebulgaria67]

You have to be a bit careful with any debts that are not statute barred, if you own any assets such as house. DCA's are increasingly using bankruptcy to enforce the debts. Lowell for example appear to make 30-40 a month bankrupt and people have got into silly situations, with there homes being sold, for smallish debts. You must keep an eye on all correspondence and deal with it, when you need to. Before they can go for bankrupty they should issue a statutory demand to the address shown on record. This can be posted or hand served.

 

If there are any charges or PPI that can be reclaimed from the original creditors, this is something that you should look into. If you can get some of the money back or taken off the debt amount, then it might be helpful.

[citizenB]

Not heard a peep from any of the companies we owe money to (of course they all still have our address in NZ) until approx 1 month ago when the first letters arrived from R0binson W4y (only the one) and also Low3ll Financial (three in total), both of whom claim to have noticed the "new" address on my credit file and have seemingly speculatively written to me here. They each represent a different company that we owe money to (Lloyds TSB and Marbles).

 

Sorry are you saying that more than one company is chasing the SAME debt ?

[citizenB]

Whilst they see that you are living at a new address - they will be able to check with Land Registry that you do indeed still own a property. As already advised, Lowells issue stat demands (precursor to bankruptcy) for the smallest of debts that are over the £750.00 BR thresh hold.

 

As these debts have obviously been assigned (sold) then you should be able to send Subject Access Requests to the Original Creditor without any concerns about prodding a hornets nest.

 

With the information you receive via the SAR, you will be able to establish when the last payments were made, if there is any Payment Protection Insurance or default/ Penalty charges.

 

From the communication logs, you will be able to establish what letters were sent to you prior to assignment - whether they issued Default Notices correctly.

[thedtb]

Until something solid comes through, treat it as a phishing exercise and dont bite.

 

Can you define "solid"?

 

The one letter from R0binson W4y, just says that they'll be handing the account over to their solicitors to deal with.

 

The three letters from Low3ll Financial started with one advising that they'd detected the new address on my credit file and requesting confirmation that I am that same person, to the final one which is seemingly not much more than a "polite" request for me to come to an arrangement with them.

 

... Before they can go for bankrupty they should issue a statutory demand to the address shown on record. This can be posted or hand served.

 

If there are any charges or PPI that can be reclaimed from the original creditors, this is something that you should look into. If you can get some of the money back or taken off the debt amount, then it might be helpful.

 

I'm not aware of any PPI, but there's almost certainly charges that arose from me not being able to service the accounts anymore, would they count?

 

Sorry are you saying that more than one company is chasing the SAME debt ?

 

No, they're both pursuing separate accounts. I'm not at home right now so I can't see the letters, but I think I'm right in saying that RW are representing Lloyds TSB and LF are representing Marbles. Between the two accounts we're talking about a figure >£7k

 

I'm not that familiar with a SAR... once I've read up on it/one, should I write to LLoyds TSB and Marbles with a SAR now or shall I wait until something more "solid" arrives (see above) and whilst we're on the subject shall I write to each other company I owe money too with a SAR too (these two aren't the only companies I owe money too, but they're the only ones writing to me currently) or shall I wait until they contact me.

 

If I am sending off SAR's to any entity now, would I suffer from writing from my current address?

[citizenB]

Hmm, almost certainly if you are writing to anyone, especially for SAR then you are going to have to provide your current address and they will question this. Once you have proved to them that you do live where you are, then they are going to update Credit records.. ouch.. damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

So yes, perhaps wait until someone contacts you with something more solid.

[renegadeimp]

'Solid' Meaning something of actual substance in writing, and not a begging letter which is pretty much what you have had so far.

[thedtb]

Now received a "statement" - I assume this doesn't count? ;-)

[thedtb]

Does receiving a letter from Dryd3nsfairfax Solicitors, asking for me to respond to R0binson W4y within 14 days count as something more 'solid' ?

[unclebulgaria67]

Does receiving a letter from Dryd3nsfairfax Solicitors, asking for me to respond to R0binson W4y within 14 days count as something more 'solid' ?

 

Standard letter.

 

Once you make contact with these people, you will have to deal with this as appropriate. They will ramp up their efforts following any contact, unless you are offering a good repayment plan.

 

If you have good reasons to dispute the debt, charges, PPI, lack of documents, then it might be worth raising such a dispute. I take it that you have made payments within the last 6 years, so it is not statute barred ? With a debt of £7k + that can still be enforced, you are risking some form of enforcement at some stage, if you don't deal with the debt. You could phone the debt charity Stepchange to ask for their advice about your debt situation. Perhaps you need a plan to deal with all debts that are not statute barred, which could bite your backside.

[thedtb]

Standard letter.

 

Once you make contact with these people, you will have to deal with this as appropriate. They will ramp up their efforts following any contact, unless you are offering a good repayment plan.

 

If you have good reasons to dispute the debt, charges, PPI, lack of documents, then it might be worth raising such a dispute. I take it that you have made payments within the last 6 years, so it is not statute barred ? With a debt of £7k + that can still be enforced, you are risking some form of enforcement at some stage, if you don't deal with the debt. You could phone the debt charity Stepchange to ask for their advice about your debt situation. Perhaps you need a plan to deal with all debts that are not statute barred, which could bite your backside.

 

So in terms of the letter, I just still continue to sit tight?

 

The debt in this case is not £7k to one company, but split between two. But yes, they're not statute barred. I do have other debts to other companies too, but the other companies all appear to have given up chasing me - I receive a monthly statement from one of them, sent to my address abroad, but hear nothing from the rest of them.

 

I don't know if there are grounds to dispute the debt as you suggest (charges, PPI etc) and I'm not sure how I would go about checking with them, without confirming where I live right now and therefore inviting further action from them... although it has occurred to me that I do still have an address in the country I've just moved back from, so in theory I could write to them "from" there. Or would this just be inviting trouble too?

 

Perhaps contacting one of the Debt charities is the way to go.

[unclebulgaria67]

If you are not back in the UK, you can apply to Experian or Equifax for a copy of your credit record to be posted to you. There is a fee for this and I presume you would need to send them some form of identity. Then at least you would known where the debts are at the moment. The credit record would be updated, if sold onto debt collectors. May also note any CCJ's.

 

Depending on what you find out, you could sit tight or look to be proactive. Perhaps, if you have a small sum of money available to pay debts, you can made a full & final (F&F) settlement offer to creditors. I suspect that the £7k debts with interest added will now be higher. You may be able to settle them for say 20% of their value. If they think you will be staying abroad, they may be willing to accept as an F&F and note your credit record as fully satisfied. Would make life moving back to the UK easier. You could then cheekily make enquiries with the original creditors about claiming back any excess charges or PPI. Just because you had a reduced F&F accepted, would not stop you doing this.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newreply.php?p=4346927&noquote=1

 

http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index.php/FAQ