Natwest and Moorcroft DCA

[Mjm0164]

Hi all,

 

Looking for a bit of advice. My partner has banked with Natwest for several years and had a £400 overdraft on her current account.

 

About 18 months ago her house was broken into and documentation / ID was taken.

 

Several months later she started to get letters from Natwest saying she owed them over £1000.

 

She has disputed this and the Natwest fraud team said they could not prove it was fraudulent and she would have to pay up.

 

She refused to pay and the debt was passed to Moorcroft debt recovery limited.

 

Following threatening letters she had accepted that she would just have to pay the debt even though it wasn't hers

so started paying Moorcroft an agreed payment of £50 a month.

 

Since she has told me about this I have told her to stop payments to Moorcroft and I have sent a SAR to Natwest.

 

Firstly can anybody provide a template to send to the DCA to explain the dispute and stop letters of home visits, court action etc.

 

When I receive the SAR back from Natwest I hope to find some information that will give us an idea of were the debt has come from and a way of proving it is fraudulent.

 

In the meantime should we pay the DCA the £400 that is actually her debt? (Minus the 3 x £50 payments she has made)

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Mike

[dx100uk]

what??

 

if it was fraud

 

it was not HER DEBT

 

stop all payments

 

and stop all comms by whatever method

 

have you still got the police incident number?

 

dx

[Bazooka Boo]

Good for you.

 

STOP ALL payments.

 

Ignore the DCA, they have no legal powers, the letters they send out are simply printed off by a computer, they have no human input whatsoever.

 

DCA's are NOT bailiffs, nor will they ever be, only the bank can instigate legal proceedings, which in this case they will never do so.

 

Enter Cr@pwests complaints procedure & exhaust it until you can escalate it further.

 

Did the police give a crime reference number? That is all Cr@pwest need to be told.

 

Also vote with your feet and bank elsewhere, these clowns are idiotic.

[Mjm0164]

It was fraudulent, she has a crime reference number for the burglary not for the fraud thought, this was mentioned to the dealing officer after the incident and it was added to the burglary case.

 

Her part of the debt is a £400 overdraft that was legitimately on the account before any of the other debt.

[Bazooka Boo]

Then £400 is all she owes cr@pwest.

 

How much of that O/D is fees and charges?

Thought about reclaiming them?

 

She needs to open a seperate bank account with a different banking group, kick these clowns into touch.

[dx100uk]

never ever pay a dca.

 

if its only 18mts old

 

she should be able to download the statements from natwest webportal.

 

if not sar them.

 

as BB says, if the £400 OD is mostly charges

then they'll go nowhere near a court

 

what does her cra file say?

 

dx

[Mjm0164]

Her credit file shows a balance of £1170 with Natwest.

 

Until we get the SAR back I wont know what the total value of charges / fees are but will certainly try to claim them back.

 

She has so far paid £150 to the DCA is this money lost or can we deduct this from the £400 she owes Natwest?

[dx100uk]

if it shows as with natwest

then that £150 MUST go to them.

 

ENSURE IT HAS.

 

p'haps a quick call to natwest in the morning to confirm they HAVE gone off the balance

 

the quicker you strike on moorcrap as to WHERE the money IS if THEY have pocketted it - the better.

 

if moorcarp have ANY CARD NUMBERS

 

phone that bank and CANCEL THE CARD [its security has been compromised]

 

whilst on the phone

 

tELL THEM not to honour anymore requests for money from MOORCRAP

 

then follow it up with a LETTER denying them the right to honour payments

 

dx

[citizenB]

I dont think you should be paying anything other than what you genuinely owe until it has been established if your wife has been the victim of ID fraud.

 

You should certainly make an official complaint to the bank.

[citizenB]

Do you have home insurance ? Can you claim on that ?

[Mike_hawk]

Could I ask whether this was a written response, if so....... from who and from which address?

 

'She has disputed this and the Natwest fraud team said they could not prove it was fraudulent and she would have to pay up.'

[Bazooka Boo]

Cr@pwest are a law unto themselves lately, why anyone banks with them is beyond me, and Lloyds, and Halifax, and Barclays.

 

Close the account, vote with your feet.

 

Open a new account with a separate banking group.

[Mjm0164]

Could I ask whether this was a written response, if so....... from who and from which address?

 

'She has disputed this and the Natwest fraud team said they could not prove it was fraudulent and she would have to pay up.'

 

I believe it was during a telephone conversation. We are still waiting for the SAR to come back.

[Mjm0164]

The SAR letter I sent was:

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Ref: Subject Access Request

Account number(s): Unknown

 

I am writing to request that you forward me a copy of all data held by your organisation about me for both current and closed accounts. This should include, but not be limited to:

 

1.The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with Natwest.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

 

In addition to my current address, previous addresses that may have been attached to this account include:

 

XXXXXXXX

 

XXXXXXXX

 

This request should include any data held for more than 6 years as under the Data Protection Act there is no time limit for information requested. If you do not hold data for a period longer than 6 years I also request confirmation of this in writing along with your methods used for disposal of such information to comply with the Data Protection Act stating the name and contact information of your registered Data Controller and Code Compliance Officer.

 

I look forward to your response within 40 days, as Natwest is obliged to reply within this time under the Data Protection Act. If not I shall seek remedy from the Information Commissioner. I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

This letter was signed for on 17th August. We have only this week received a reply:

 

We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience that we have caused by not responding to your subject access request under section 7 of the data protection act within the 40 day timescale.

 

We are currently in the process of dealing with your subject access request but, unfortunately, our search is not yet complete. As a result, we are not in a position to release the documentation at this time.

 

Once we have exhausted our search, all information will be sent to you by TNT Express. Again, I apologise for this situation.

 

Additionally, were you require transcripts of recorded telephone conversations we would need further details of the call, such as: the dates, times, telephone numbers, names of who was spoken to and the department involved. However please be aware that not every telephone call is recorded, therefore it may not be possible to locate your call.

 

 

Firstly what should be my next step? They have had nearly 80 days to produce the data.

 

My partner is still getting pestered by letters from DCA, can we demand to Natwest that they stop all proceedings until they produce the required information?

 

Finally, are they correct in what the say about us needing to provide details of phone calls?

 

Thanks again!!

 

Mike

[Mike_hawk]

Not exactly [re: timings of telephone calls] but you'll have a hard time proving they exist if you didn't keep a record.... DPA can't be used for a fishing trip if you're not sure.

 

Personally I'd throw it a 14 day LBA then sue now you have an admission of non compliance

[Mjm0164]

Thanks for the advice Mike_hawk, I intend to send:

 

As acknowledged in your letter dated 31st October 2012 you have failed to comply with my data protection act subject access request dated 15th August 2012.

 

If you do not comply within the next 7 days I shall seek a Court order obliging you to do so together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without any further notice.

 

Am I able to include a demand to call off DCA until they comply?

[Mike_hawk]

Sounds reasonable to me, you could compound the complaint by referring to DPA s.35 and BCOB in your correspondence

 

35 Disclosures required by law or made in connection with legal proceedings etc.

 

(1)Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is required by or under any enactment, by any rule of law or by the order of a court.

(2)Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is necessary—

(a)for the purpose of, or in connection with, any legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings), or

(b)for the purpose of obtaining legal advice, or is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights

 

BCOB......Rule 5.1.1 R states “A firm must provide a service in relation to a retail banking service which is prompt, efficient and fair to a banking customer and which has regard to any communications or financial promotion made by the firm to the banking customer from time to time.”

[Mjm0164]

Thanks again Mike_hawk!!!!

 

How does this sound:

 

As acknowledged in your letter dated 31st October 2012 you have failed to comply with my data protection act Subject access request dated 15th August 2012.

 

If you do not comply within the next 7 days I shall seek a Court order obliging you to do so together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without any further notice.

 

Further to the above I demand that you with immediate effect halt any proceedings you are currently pursuing with Moorecroft and/or any other debt collection agencies until the subject access request has been completed. If you fail to do this I will pursue a complaint of harassment.

 

May I refer you to Data Protection Act Section 35:

(1)personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is required by or under any enactment, by any rule of law or by the order of a court.

(2)personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is necessary

(a)for the purpose of, or in connection with, any legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings), or

(b)for the purpose of obtaining legal advice, or is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights

 

Finally I feel you are in non compliance of the Banking: Conduct of Business Regulations, specifically Rule 5.1.1 R states “A firm must provide a service in relation to a retail banking service which is prompt, efficient and fair to a banking customer and which has regard to any communications or financial promotion made by the firm to the banking customer from time to time.”

 

[Mike_hawk]

Sounds fine to me

[Mjm0164]

Update

 

We have since received some information from Natwest.

Mainly bank statements and details of interaction with Moorecroft.

A letter providing a summary of phone calls with Natwest, one does mention the possible fraudulent credit card.

 

There is no copy of the default notice.

 

Looking at the bank statements, there was a £500 overdraft on the account, bank charges took this into an unauthorised overdraft which then spiralled upto £1200. The unauthorised overdraft was made up solely of charges.

 

What would you recommend the next plan of attack to:

a) minimise the debt

b) have default removed.

 

I believe the key is that my partner was told in branch that she had a credit card with Natwest, which she didnt. It now seems that there never was a fraudulent credit card and seems to be some mistake on the banks part.

[Bazooka Boo]

What a mess!

 

Please tell me your not still banking with these clowns?

 

BCOBS should be used here I think, if the OD charges took you over the agreed OD and this then spiraled to 1200 this is unfair and can be reclaimed.

[Mjm0164]

Thanks Bazooka

 

No defiantly not, although Im not too sure Halifax are any better.

 

Dont suppose you have got a link to a template stating the BCOBS have you?

 

Thanks

[Bazooka Boo]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?826-Re-Fairness-work-in-progress