FLM quick - please help!!

[calmbeforestorm]

I obtained a £500 loan in September 2009 with FLM quick

only to discover to my horror that I have actually paid £1800!!

 

I am not working at present and I cannot afford the monthly interest charge and I don't want to cause bad feeling between myself and the guarantor as we are family friends.

 

Is there anything that I can do??

 

This company are threatening court action if the payments aren't made,

any advice?

 

£518 still owed, the mind boggles....

[renegadeimp]

Youve paid more than 4 times the original loan and theyre still demanding more?

 

If so, theres a few things you can do. Remember, they would be very hard pressed to enforce it through court. Infact, if you can gain a breakdown of the debt, you could probably issue a reclaim for all the bogus interest/penalty fees.

 

Whats happened is that theyve found a cash cow and are milking it for all its worth.

[calmbeforestorm]

Thank you for your reply, i accessed my online documents and I found the information below. I am unsure of how to approach them but one thing is for sure they won't be getting another penny. i just need to speak to my guarantor as she is the kind of person that would pay them for a quiet life!!

 

The Credit Limit is £500.00

 

We may vary the credit limit to such amount as we may from time to time determine and, on each occasion

 

when we do so, we will tell you the new credit limit.

How and when credit will be provided

We will provide credit by paying the amounts you draw down under this agreement from time to time into

 

your guarantor's bank account.

Rate of interest

Interest will be charged on the balance outstanding under this agreement on a day to day basis at the rate

 

of 9.56% per month, which is equivalent to the rate of 199% per year (see clause 5 of the Terms).

 

We may vary the rate of interest at our discretion. We will tell you before we vary the rate of interest and, if

 

the rate is to be increased, we will tell you at least 30 days before it is increased (see clause 6 of the

 

Terms).

 

If you were to draw the whole credit limit in one amount the interest you would pay in the first month would

 

be £48.70. Thereafter the amount of interest payable will depend on the amount you choose to repay each

 

month to reduce your outstanding balance.

Total Amount Payable and APR

We are required to provide you with an example of the total amount you would pay if you were to have a

 

credit limit of and borrow £500.00 and repay that amount, together with interest, over the period of one year

 

by 12 equal monthly payments, assuming there was no change to the interest rate during that period. On

 

these assumptions the total amount payable would be £861.65 (that is 12 monthly payments of £71.80) and

 

the annual percentage rate of charge would be 199%APR. The actual amount you will pay under this

 

agreement will depend on how long you take to repay the Initial transaction, the amounts you draw down

 

under this agreement in future and how long you take to repay those drawdowns.

Timing and Amount of Repayments

You will have to make minimum monthly payments each month. These will be the greater of the sum of 1%

 

of the total outstanding balance, plus interest added to your Account in the last Statement Period (see

 

clause 4 of the Terms) or £51.26. If your outstanding balance is less than £51.26, your repayment will be

 

your remaining balance. Any payment you make will be applied to repay what you owe in the following

 

order:

 

1. Interest owed by you;

 

2. The balance outstanding under this agreement;

If you only pay the minimum amount each month you will not reduce the amount you borrowed

 

significantly so you will pay more interest and it will take longer to repay. Periodically we will

 

prompt you to make payments which are higher than the minimum payments set out above to

 

ensure that the agreement is repaid within a reasonable timescale.

 

Guarantee

The guarantor

"Guarantor" you have provided is to give us a guarantee and indemnity which will secure

this agreement.

Right of withdrawal

You have the right to withdraw from this agreement, without giving any reason. This right begins when you

 

sign the agreement and ends at the end of the period of 14 days beginning on the day after the day on

 

which we inform you that the agreement has been executed. You can notify us of your intention to withdraw

 

in writing or orally by contacting the team manager at Walton House, 56-58 Richmond Hill, Bournemouth,

 

BH2 6EX. If you withdraw from the Agreement you must repay us the amount of any credit that we have

 

provided plus daily interest from the date when the credit was provided until payment. You must pay us

 

without delay and, in any event, no later than 30 days after giving notice of withdrawal. You can pay us by

 

cheque, direct credit or bank transfer to Account No 28372794, Sort Code 56-00-35. If you ask us, we will

 

inform you, without delay, of the amount of interest payable per day.

Missing Payment warning

Missing payments could have severe consequences and make obtaining credit in future more difficult. We

 

may take action to recover what you owe including: asking your Guarantor to make payment on your

 

behalf, reporting non-payment to credit reference agencies, taking legal action against you and your

 

Guarantor, seeking an attachment of earnings order or warrant of execution.

Early Repayment

You have the right, at any time, to pay early, either in full or in part, by making the payment you wish to

 

make to us.

Ombudsman Scheme

If you have a complaint you should write to us in the first instance and allow us to resolve the issue. Should

 

you be unhappy with our Final response you have the right to complain to the Financial Ombudsman

 

Service.

Contractual Terms & Conditions

This agreement consists of the terms, statements of rights and information on this page and the Terms.

 

You should read these carefully and make sure that you understand the agreement before you sign it.

Supervisory Authority

The Office of Fair Trading, Fleetbank House, 2-6 Salisbury Square, London, EC4Y 8JX is the supervisory

 

authority under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

[renegadeimp]

Can i ask what repayment period your original loan was for?

 

Basically, just for the sake of clarification, can you post:

 

The original loan amount plus interest

The original repayment period.

The total amount of money you have repaid so far.

The amount they claim you still owe.

Have you contacted them before to notify them that you cant make repayments. If so, do you have the dates you send them notices?

 

 

If you want, you can supply the reason for not paying it back, but its not necessary.

[calmbeforestorm]

Also ....

 

Date Description Amount Balance

26/08/2012 Interest 26/07/2012 - Today -£51.28 £520.28

 

21/08/2012 Card Payment - Guarantor - (Monthly payment) £31.26 £469.00

 

20/08/2012 Card Payment - Borrower (5995) - (Balance payment) £20.00 £500.26

 

26/07/2012 Interest 26/06/2012 - 25/07/2012 -£45.41 £520.26

 

29/06/2012 Card Payment - Borrower (5995) £68.73 £474.85

 

26/06/2012 Interest 15/05/2012 - 25/06/2012 -£63.93 £543.58

 

18/05/2012 Card Payment - Borrower (5995) £55.68 £479.65

 

17/05/2012 Card Payment - Borrower (5995) £18.00 £535.33

 

15/05/2012 Interest 31/03/2012 - 14/05/2012 -£68.83 £553.33

 

02/04/2012 Card Payment - Borrower (5995) £52.76 £484.50

 

31/03/2012 Interest 29/02/2012 - 30/03/2012 -£47.87 £537.26

 

01/03/2012 Card Payment - Borrower (2543) £5.00 £489.39

 

01/03/2012 Card Payment - Borrower (5995) £60.00 £494.39

 

29/02/2012 Interest 22/01/2012 - 28/02/2012 -£59.59 £554.39

 

25/01/2012 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £40.16 £494.80

 

24/01/2012 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £13.39 £534.96

 

23/01/2012 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £17.85 £548.35

 

22/01/2012 Interest 11/12/2011 - 21/01/2012 -£66.40 £566.20

 

14/12/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £45.75 £499.80

 

12/12/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £5.00 £545.55

 

11/12/2011 Interest 11/11/2011 - 10/12/2011 -£45.70 £550.55

 

11/11/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £49.17 £504.85

 

11/11/2011 Interest 11/10/2011 - 10/11/2011 -£49.17 £554.02

 

11/10/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £47.59 £504.85

 

11/10/2011 Interest 11/09/2011 - 10/10/2011 -£47.59 £552.44

 

11/09/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £49.17 £504.85

 

11/09/2011 Interest 11/08/2011 - 10/09/2011 -£49.17 £554.02

 

11/08/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £49.32 £504.85

 

11/08/2011 Interest 11/07/2011 - 10/08/2011 -£49.32 £554.17

 

12/07/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £47.89 £504.85

 

11/07/2011 Interest 11/06/2011 - 10/07/2011 -£47.89 £552.74

 

13/06/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £49.17 £504.85

 

11/06/2011 Interest 11/05/2011 - 10/06/2011 -£49.17 £554.02

 

11/05/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £47.59 £504.85

 

11/05/2011 Interest 11/04/2011 - 10/05/2011 -£47.59 £552.44

 

11/04/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £49.17 £504.85

 

11/04/2011 Interest 11/03/2011 - 10/04/2011 -£49.17 £554.02

 

11/03/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £44.41 £504.85

 

11/03/2011 Interest 11/02/2011 - 10/03/2011 -£44.41 £549.26

 

11/02/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £49.17 £504.85

 

11/02/2011 Interest 11/01/2011 - 10/02/2011 -£49.17 £554.02

 

11/01/2011 Interest 11/12/2010 - 10/01/2011 -£49.85 £559.85

 

10/01/2011 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £55.00 £504.85

 

24/12/2010 Bank Refund -£20.00 £510.00

 

17/12/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £10.00 £490.00

 

17/12/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £56.19 £500.00

 

15/12/2010 Charge -£20.00 £556.19

 

11/12/2010 Interest 11/11/2010 - 10/12/2010 -£46.19 £536.19

 

11/11/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £10.00 £490.00

 

11/11/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £48.70 £500.00

 

11/11/2010 Interest 11/10/2010 - 10/11/2010 -£48.70 £548.70

 

11/10/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £70.69 £500.00

 

11/10/2010 Interest 27/08/2010 - 10/10/2010 -£70.69 £570.69

 

27/08/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £58.13 £500.00

 

27/08/2010 Interest 21/07/2010 - 26/08/2010 -£58.13 £558.13

 

21/07/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £47.13 £500.00

 

21/07/2010 Interest 21/06/2010 - 20/07/2010 -£47.13 £547.13

 

21/06/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £48.70 £500.00

Date Description Amount Balance

 

21/06/2010 Interest 21/05/2010 - 20/06/2010 -£48.70 £548.70

 

21/05/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £78.55 £500.00

 

21/05/2010 Interest 01/04/2010 - 20/05/2010 -£78.55 £578.55

 

01/04/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £48.98 £500.00

 

01/04/2010 Interest 01/03/2010 - 31/03/2010 -£48.98 £548.98

 

03/03/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £43.99 £500.00

 

01/03/2010 Interest 01/02/2010 - 28/02/2010 -£43.99 £543.99

 

01/02/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £49.16 £500.00

 

01/02/2010 Interest 01/01/2010 - 31/01/2010 -£49.16 £549.16

 

04/01/2010 Card Payment - Borrower (0878) £48.70 £500.00

 

01/01/2010 Interest 01/12/2009 - 31/12/2009 -£48.70 £548.70

 

01/12/2009 Card Payment - Borrower (4358) £47.28 £500.00

 

01/12/2009 Interest 01/11/2009 - 30/11/2009 -£47.28 £547.28

 

02/11/2009 Card Payment - Borrower (4358) £48.70 £500.00

 

01/11/2009 Interest 01/10/2009 - 31/10/2009 -£48.70 £548.70

 

01/10/2009 Card Payment - Borrower (4358) £32.99 £500.00

 

01/10/2009 Interest 10/09/2009 - 30/09/2009 -£32.99 £532.99

 

10/09/2009 CHAPS Fee -£30.00 £500.00

 

10/09/2009 Payout -£470.00 £470.00

 

FLM

 

[renegadeimp]

Also:

 

If you only pay the minimum amount each month you will not reduce the amount you borrowed

 

significantly so you will pay more interest and it will take longer to repay. Periodically we will

 

prompt you to make payments which are higher than the minimum payments set out above to

 

ensure that the agreement is repaid within a reasonable timescale.

 

Riiiiiiight. WOnder what the OFT would make of that. Plus theyre adding on contractual interest after the original contract has ended.

[calmbeforestorm]

the original loan was for £500, they say I owe £518 to date, this loan works like a payday loan. I am unemployed due to redudancy at the moment and I have made any offers yet to do with repayments, the loan is up to date.

[PDLVictim]

@Rene: The contract has not ended, the 12 months above are an "example" for illustration purposes. The contract ends January 2018 (after 100 months).

 

Hi calmbeforestorm,

 

FLM is not like a payday loan, but more like a standard loan, with two differences:

a) obviously the high interest rate of 199% (but which is still so much lower than the thousands percent charged for payday loans)

b) no fixed monthly repayment rate, only minimum payments (similar to credit cards)

 

So it is more a mixture of credit card and loan.

 

If you only make the minimum payments you would pay until January 2018.

 

Now looking at the terms and at your payment history, what surprises me is that you did not make the minimum payments, you only paid interest.

 

So I see only one possible way out, but I am not sure if it might work:

 

Per their terms you should have paid "he sum of 1%

 

of the total outstanding balance, plus interest added"

but you never paid the 1%, you only paid interest.

 

So actually you already defaulted on the loan from the beginning. So after 3 months they should have terminated the contract, put you on default and obtained the money owed in one sum from your guarantor, which they did not do.

 

If they would have done so they would have only been able to charge you 8% interest (if your guarantor would not have been paid), not 199%.

 

So I would write to them, stating that they missed to collect the minimum payments since 2009 from either you or your guarantor and that they missed to default you, terminated your contract and that you therefore would like to have a judge in court to decide this case, but alternatively offer them in full and final settlement and without prejudice to keep the money they already received from you (the 1800 GBP) and close the account.

Edited August 27, 2012 by PDLVictim
Sent to early

[calmbeforestorm]

I see what you mean, I paid what they asked for each month, I thought the monthly payment was interest and loan repayment rolled into one

[calmbeforestorm]

thank you so much! They will most likely try to continue to take the payments by using my debit card and the guarantor's card. Is there a way I can stop them?

[dx100uk]

yep you BOTH do this:

 

We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companie

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works!

 

banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers !

This fsa guide has now been updated:

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/consumer_...ghts_guide.pdf

 

Here's the text:

 

Cancelling a regular

card payment:

 

When you give your credit or debit card

details to a company and authorise

them to take regular payments from

your account, such as for a gym

membership or magazine subscription,

it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’

or ‘continuous payment authority’.

These are often confused with direct

debits, but do not offer the same

guarantee if the amount or date of the

payment changes.

In most cases, regular payments can

be cancelled by telling the company

taking the payments. However, you

have the right to cancel them directly

with your bank or card issuer by telling

it that you have stopped permission for

the payments. Your bank or card issuer

must then stop them – it has no right to

insist that you agree this first with the

company taking the payments.

Be aware, though, that you will still be

responsible for paying any money that

you owe.

see: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336569-How-to-remove-a-lender-s-continuous-payment-authority(2-Viewing)-nbsp

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumerinformation/product_news/banking/know_your_rights/solving/index.shtml

dx

[calmbeforestorm]

Thank you all for your replies, I wrote to them about this offering them the money that I paid as full and final and I received the following email:- any ideas?

 

Thank you for your recent email.

 

At FLM Quick, we do not want anyone entering an agreement without ensuring they are fully aware of the terms and conditions of the loan. Before we pay out a loan we ensure that both the applicant and the guarantor have signed the terms and conditions. All the information about how the interest and repayments works is contained in the agreement.

 

When we designed FLM Quick we wanted to make our loans simple and easy to understand loans in the world. We wanted to make something fairer and more flexible than normal loans. The rules around how we operate were created based on how we would want a loan that we took out to work:

 

1- The balance at the start of the loan is how much you've been paid out, no other fees

 

2- Interest is calculated daily and added onto the loan balance as it goes

 

3- Allow additional payments at anytime but FLM Quick will automatically debit the minimum payment monthly

 

4- Statements are available 24/7 online so everyone knows where they are.

 

5- No other fees or charges are ever added (as from 1 May 2012) and no early settlement fee is charged

 

We never want to financially burden our clients, which is why we debit the minimum payment monthly on the date agreed, but advise (as you will see on your statements and online) that additional payments are made to clear your loan faster. For example, if you choose to, a larger amount can be paid per month, resulting in the loan closing within a short amount of time and paying back much less. Or you can pay what you can afford to when you can. All this information is contained in the terms and conditions of the loan.

 

We have made a small change recently which means your loan will close in a set amount of time if the minimum payments are maintained. When we decided to make this change we sent out an email to you advising you of this. You would have received this notification around the end of May this year.

 

Should you need any further information please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Kind regards

 

Linda Bishop

[renegadeimp]

Their terms and agreements do not override statute law and your statutory rights. No matter what they might think.

 

From the letter you received, it really looks like a standard form letter. Similar to the useless drivel that minicredit and Toothfairy like to spread around.

[calmbeforestorm]

I am not sure where to go from here, do i write again explaining this, I am just a bit unsure of how to word things. thanks

[calmbeforestorm]

Anyone advise?

[renegadeimp]

What exactly do you want to achieve or say to them? Thats not condescending btw, but a legitimate question to help form a letter.

[calmbeforestorm]

I want to reply to the email above that they sent me, as I have paid nearly 4 times the initial loan back I feel it is about time that they call it quits, I am just a bit uncertain as to how I should word things. thank you so much

[calmbeforestorm]

After stating to FLM that their terms and agreements do not override statute law and statutory rights, I received this email this morning:- Any ideas of how I can end this loan as I have paid £1800 on a £500 loan?

 

I write in response to your recent email, the contents have been noted.

 

I would agree that our terms and conditions do not override your statutory rights or the law. What I can confirm is that the terms and conditions I mention in my previous email, form part of a legally binding contract for the agreement you entered into with FLM Quick.

 

Should you need any further information, please let me know.

 

Kind regards

 

Linda Bishop

Complaints Handler

FLM Quick

[renegadeimp]

They just dont get it do they.

[calmbeforestorm]

At my wits end with them

[Nao]

2. The balance outstanding under this agreement;

If you only pay the minimum amount each month you will not reduce the amount you borrowed

significantly so you will pay more interest and it will take longer to repay. Periodically we will

prompt you to make payments which are higher than the minimum payments set out above to

ensure that the agreement is repaid within a reasonable timescale.

 

The above quote is from FLMs terms & conditions, you could try to complain that they them self where not sticking to their own t&cs by not informing you about the impact of how much or little you paid earlier but rather letting it slip for so long which leads to:

 

a 1% minimum payment seems extremely low considering the high interest and limited time (24 month max according to their website), so that may well be a violation of guidelines, as the fsa puts it:

 

The overarching test of fairness is in Regulation 5 and provides that a term

will be unfair if: ‘contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a

significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations arising under the

contract, to the detriment of the consumer’12.

 

Quote taken from Page 9 here http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/other/good_practice.pdf

[calmbeforestorm]

Hi thanks for your reply, my guarantor paid the loan off which I did not want but FLM did send this email to me. It is a shame as they really did milk the two of us for £500 they received £2000, shameful!

 

I write in response to your recent email.

 

I appreciate your comments and would like to take this opportunity to give you some feedback in relation to the points you have made.

 

I note from our records that you have made use of the on-line facility in the past. As I am sure you know, your statement of account is available to you 24/7. The following information is contained on these statements:

 

Your account will automatically be debited monthly on the (relevant date) for the minimum monthly instalment. If the payment is not made on time we will be forced to attempt the payment from your guarantor.

Remember – By paying just the minimum each month you are extending the length of time you have your loan. You can make extra payments to clear the balance of your loan at any time.

If you want to clear the balance altogether, simply go to 'Borrowers and Guarantors login' online and pay the balance shown. You can pay by card, or use one of our other payment methods.

 

You mention a period of 24 months. As I stated in my previous correspondence, FLM Quick has recently made a change to ensure all FLM Quick loans will close in a set amount of time if the minimum payments are maintained as opposed to only asking for a minimum payment of the interest plus 1% of the balance each month. As responsible lenders we decided to make this change to ensure all of our clients' loans are settled within a reasonable timescale, while at the same time continuing to advise customers to make additional payments to further reduce the loan loan. Notification of this change was sent out in May 2012.

 

In view of the above, I cannot agree that FLM Quick has not made you aware of the need to make additional payments towards your loan in order to reduce the term and interest paid.

 

I can confirm that your loan has now been paid in full and the account has been closed.

 

Should you need any further information please just let me know.

 

Kind regards

 

Linda Bishop

[Nao]

In general terms, creditors should:

 

• not use misleading or oppressive behaviour when

advertising, selling, or seeking to enforce a credit

agreement

 

• make a reasonable assessment of whether a borrower

can afford to meet repayments in a sustainable manner

 

• explain the key features of the credit agreement to

enable the borrower to make an informed choice

 

• monitor the borrower's repayment record during the

course of the agreement, offering assistance where

borrowers appear to be experiencing difficulty and

 

• treat borrowers fairly and with forbearance if they

experience difficulties.

 

Quote is from OFT here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft1107.pdf

 

In my opinion it is a violation of the last two points, plus the previously treated FSA guideline.

[PDLVictim]

It seems that they ignored your first response and sent their standard text.

 

Do you still have the original terms and conditions somewhere (not the current online version)? If yes, look up if there is also mentioned that you have to repay as minimum the interest and 1% of the outstanding loan.

 

It can be that they (as they stated in their reply) changed the terms and conditions, which would mean their business model would be:

- Pay out 500 GBP

- Charge interest only over 2 years

- Then change terms and conditions to switch to a normal loan concept (charge interest and 1% repayment)

 

If this is the case here, then the only other option you would have is to report them to FOS and let FOS and also FLM know that it was not made clear to you that you would not repay anything towards the 500 GBP the first two years.

 

But if their original terms and conditions also stated interest + 1% repayment, then write them again that they never took the minimum repayment and you therefore already defaulted and they can therefore only have charged 8% interest since 2010, and you therefore already repaid the loan...

[Kelziepopz]

At my wits end with them

 

I was wondering if you ever made an agreement with them.? What happened next as I'm going through the same problem with them :-/ xx