natwest KEEP letting CFO drain my A/C using an OLD DEBIT CARD - SHAME ON THEM!!!

[caledfwlch]

hello, quick bit of advice.

 

Some old creditor has somehow managed to access my bank account over the weekend and emptied it, whilst I was away.

 

any debit card debit details they held were only on the understanding of being for "ID verification" not repayment, and I have had several new cards since then.

 

However, Natwest are telling me that it is their "policy" that loan companies pretty much have open access to your account if you have ever dealt with them, ie, Natwest will refuse to honour the reverse unauthorised payments Visa debit card scheme if the person emptying your account is a loans company. Point blank refusal and increasing nastyness from their call centre in fact.

 

The fact that one may no longer have a business relationship with said creditor, say you have actually paid all you owe, does not matter - because its a Loan Company, then it is not Natwest's policy to extend any protection to your account. It is up to you to chase the company, and if they refuse to repay, then "tough" natwest will not assist you - the guy on the phone even told me, that if someone has fraudulently taken an account with a loan company in your name, Natwest will still refuse to honour and perform a reversal! You must then chase the loan company to try and get your money back thats been taken by a fraudster.

 

Is any of this right, is it even a lawful policy? I was under the stupid idea, that my money was my money, and if I don't authorise a transaction then under the new guarantees, that transaction should be reversed?

 

Otherwise, let this stand as a warning to caggers. They actually took 3 payments of varying amounts at the exact same time on friday night, so its pretty clearly not a normal authorised transaction too.

 

I would love some advice if Natwest are acting wrongly here, because I am diabetic with serious neuropathy problems and my entire ESA payment for the next 2 months has been taken by the old creditor.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, I have alerted the others to see what we can do.

 

Who is rge creditor and how old is the debt, when

did you last make any payments?

[Ell-enn]

You should ask to be put through to the fraud team. A colleague of mine who banks with Natwest had some amounts taken from her account and when she advised the fraud team she had not given her card details to the company who took the payments, they had the money back in her account within hours.

[renegadeimp]

Sounds like you got a front desk monkey in the call centre. The bank saying that simply because the merchant is a loan company, so the transaction cant be reversed is simply laughable.

[caledfwlch]

You should ask to be put through to the fraud team. A colleague of mine who banks with Natwest had some amounts taken from her account and when she advised the fraud team she had not given her card details to the company who took the payments, they had the money back in her account within hours.

 

I am not sure if fraud is the correct route - I DO have arrears with the company, it's just like I say, the original card details were given as ID verification.

 

It may be I will just have to chalk this one to experience and try and survive the next 2 weeks since Natwest are being so stubborn?

[caledfwlch]

Sounds like you got a front desk monkey in the call centre. The bank saying that simply because the merchant is a loan company, so the transaction cant be reversed is simply laughable.

 

It is a "new policy" of Natwest apparantly, according to the monkey anyway, all specific and shiny for any company they have marked down as a loans company. A payday loans company no less.

[dx100uk]

We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companie

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works!

 

banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers !

This fsa guide has now been updated:

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/consumer_...ghts_guide.pdf

 

Here's the text:

 

Cancelling a regular

card payment:

 

When you give your credit or debit card

details to a company and authorise

them to take regular payments from

your account, such as for a gym

membership or magazine subscription,

it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’

or ‘continuous payment authority’.

These are often confused with direct

debits, but do not offer the same

guarantee if the amount or date of the

payment changes.

In most cases, regular payments can

be cancelled by telling the company

taking the payments. However, you

have the right to cancel them directly

with your bank or card issuer by telling

it that you have stopped permission for

the payments. Your bank or card issuer

must then stop them – it has no right to

insist that you agree this first with the

company taking the payments.

Be aware, though, that you will still be

responsible for paying any money that

you owe.

see: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336569-How-to-remove-a-lender-s-continuous-payment-authority(2-Viewing)-nbsp

dx

[unclebulgaria67]

If you did not authorise the payment, then the bank have to refund it.

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumerinformation/product_news/banking/know_your_rights/solving/index.shtml

[renegadeimp]

It's a new policy because the monkey didnt want to press the buttons or put the time in to do his job right. The law overrides any made up policy that they decide they want to create.

[rebel11]

Hi Cal

 

It's against OFT Guidelines, page 30 onwards, I'd report it to the OFT and tell Nat West that they have to treat you 'fairly' under BCOBS, according to the OFT that's 'unfair' practice, I'd do it in writing :-

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT664Rev.pdf

 

Have a read of no.14 in my signature.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT664Rev.pdf

[Mike_hawk]

What makes it's [Ratsnest] position even more laughable is the info they post on group sites

 

http://www.natwest.com/personal/cred...x#tab-section2

 

http://www.rbs.co.uk/personal/credit...nsactions.ashx

[caledfwlch]

Just made another attempt with natwest. It's still "speak to the company and if you owe them money then tough, we wont be refunding, un-authorised or not"

[caledfwlch]

Hi Cal

 

It's against OFT Guidelines, page 30 onwards, I'd report it to the OFT and tell Nat West that they have to treat you 'fairly' under BCOBS, according to the OFT that's 'unfair' practice, I'd do it in writing :-

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT664Rev.pdf

 

Have a read of no.14 in my signature.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT664Rev.pdf

 

I have just read No 14 and the OFT stuff - but I cannot see anything that will help me with Natwest.

 

A creditor has emptied my account. Natwest are refusing to honour Charge Back as it's a loan company, a party completely unrelated to Natwest and if I owe that company money then its "tough" I cannot use chargeback is what they are claiming - I cannot see anything in those links that would assist?

[Mike_hawk]

There's a sticky in the PDL section, post #68 lists the relevant sections of the PSR 2009

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336569-How-to-remove-a-lender-s-continuous-payment-authority

[caledfwlch]

There's a sticky in the PDL section, post #68 lists the relevant sections of the PSR 2009

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336569-How-to-remove-a-lender-s-continuous-payment-authority

 

I am having a really dim day!

 

I can see how to stop this happening in the future, but does any of that allow me to get a refund of the money already taken this weekend?

[renegadeimp]

You are legally entitled to a full chargeback due to a fraudulant transaction. It doesnt matter what "new policy" your bank has made. The LAW says the opposite.

[rebel11]

Hi cal

 

When was the last payment made on this loan?

 

Get Nat West to send you the 'Terms and Conditions' of the account in question, also a letter confirming what they've said verbally. Request from them an exact date when the authority was set up.

[Mike_hawk]

I am having a really dim day!

 

I can see how to stop this happening in the future, but does any of that allow me to get a refund of the money already taken this weekend?

 

Regs below;

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/209/regulation/61/made

 

Regulation 61 makes it clear that where a payment was not authorised the “provider must immediately— (a) refund the amount of the unauthorised payment transaction to the payer;

And must also (b)… restore the debited payment account to the state it would have been in had the unauthorised payment transaction not taken place.”

[brokebutnotbeatn]

Put it in writing...

[BASFORDLAD2]

Yes ask them to state it in writing in full. Ask them if you reached deadlock and if so you will report the matter to the FOS which you just do and not just threaten to do.

 

Also change accounts so they can't take money from you again

[caledfwlch]

Well, News! And thanks for the help!

 

I spoke to a very nice lady though she did try and toe the "party line"

 

I quoted her the FSA, the OFT, and that I had taken "legal advice" in reality the brilliant advice from you wonderful people.

 

The payments are going to be refunded into my account by 6pm this evening.

She said that the Loan company will dispute these in the next few weeks and the money will be debited again from my account,

but I will be able to dispute their dispute, so I shall get another account open somewhere

- given this company (capital finance one's) reputation from googling,

 

I am not entirely sure that cancelling the continuous payment authority

(which I have not actually given! my debit card, was only used to verify identify, at least according to the gubbins) would help,

they seem extremely tenacious, and as I have mentioned since this loan was had,

 

I have lost my debit card twice, and thus 2 cards have been cancelled since!

So a new account in a diff bank seems eminently sensible, to stop CFO.

 

It is funny how quickly the call centres tune changes when you start quoting annoying things like the Law at them! I got it all in, the BCOBS, everything!

[Ell-enn]

Brilliant - make sure you get the money transferred to another account as soon as it's refunded. Also send a letter to your local branch by recorded delivery (or hand it in and get someone in the bank to sign a copy to prove they received it). You should state in the letter that "effective immediately, I instruct you not to make any payments in any form from my account NoXXXXXX to Capital Finance One". The bank have to follow your instructions.

[BASFORDLAD2]

Just a note,

 

dont be frightened when their collections department or internal collection agency call you

 

they will threaten to remove goods etc and will be coming tonight etc etc, but worry not this wont happen

[renegadeimp]

I never get that far unless i want to play with them basfordlad. I usually hang up when they want me to go through "security questions" ( these arent security questions at all. They are there so they can confirm you live at so and so address so they can bombard you with threat letters).

[rebel11]

Well Done Cal:-)