PHILIPS won't accept repayment proposal

[jaytb]

Hi,

 

I had a debt of £328 old council tax bill or something from 2003 that came back to haunt me.

 

Philips got hold of it, put their fees on and said they wanted £110 a month.

I told them that was impossible, I just couldn't afford it and offered them £50, they refused.

I paid £100 after scrambling money together, but it was late, and hence they sent another bailiff round, and added on another £200!

 

So I have kicked off and told them I just can't afford £100 every month, now they are saying I have to pay £240 a month, or £60 a week.

I have written back asking where is the logic in doubling a payment plan that I couldn't afford in the first place.

 

Can anyone help, they are saying if I want to pay £50 a month I can, but they'll still send bailiffs round and every time thats another £200 right?

 

It seems crazy.

 

Cheers

 

Jay

[wonkeydonkey]

Pay the Council direct with what you can afford on a regular basis, this is old CT and not classed as a priority debt.

 

Ring the Council and ask

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

Then write to Phillips for a breakdown of their fees. If they have not been in your home to make a levy then the only fees you will owe are 1st and 2nd visit total £42.50. There is no law that says you have to deal with them so make your payments as suggested above and budget for legitimate fees as given.

WD

[Conniff]

Listen to what wd is saying above jaytb, and do exactly has he says.

[brassnecked]

Do as WD says, and keep the bailiff out, no law says you have to deal with them, and if they can't levy, and a is levy opening up the door to more fees for them, they will likely refuse to allow installments. Pay council direct at a rate you can regularly afford, say £10 every week on a wednesday, and tell them you are doing this as the bailiffs refused your affordable repayments.

[jaytb]

Hi Wonkeydonkey,

 

Many many thanks for the reply.

I have just looked at the original paperwork again and its a HMRC debt to Stockton Borough Council, I think it's Rates (from when I ran a pub in 2003).

The original debt was 328.23

I've made payments totalling £200

I have asked for a breakdown of the costs from Philips which they have sent, in it are-

a £85 admin fee and a £215 attendance fee, they never gained access to my home.

so now the debt is 428.23, just crazy.

I have been back to the fines, HMRC people are they said now they have passed the debt on they see no reason why I shouldn't deal with Philips and refuse to take any payment from me.

I was getting the debt paid from my benefits, but they stopped.

I have no other liability orders against me.

 

Cheers

[jaytb]

Many thanks for the info Brass, I'm afraid I slightly cocked up the initial info, and have amended it accordingly.

[Conniff]

Ah, that changes everything but you still don't have to deal with the bailiffs.

[hallowitch]

I have asked for a Breakdown of the costs from Philips which they have sent, in it are-

a £85 admin fee and a £215 attendance fee,

 

the fees quoted are for the enforcement of court fines not council tax

[brassnecked]

I have asked for a Breakdown of the costs from Philips which they have sent, in it are-

a £85 admin fee and a £215 attendance fee,

 

the fees quoted are for the enforcement of court fines not council tax

 

Don't think HMRC debts can be treated as court fines, but others will know more.

[hallowitch]

Don't think HMRC debts can be treated as court fines, but others will know more.

 

 

no i dont think so either so why is Philips fees scale the same as court fine fees

[sgtbush]

i found this info-- from a quick read non payment of buisness rates can have a warrant of distress used so the fees charges are set by the court -- 215 pounds and 85 admin

 

 

• What happens if I don't pay or can't pay my Business Rates?
  
• I've received a summons.
  
• A bailiff has visited my premises.
  
• What goods can the bailiff remove?
  
• I have received a bankruptcy/liquidation demand.
  
• Committal to Prison.
  
• Warrant of Arrest.
  
• How you can help.
  

What happens if I don't pay or can't pay my Business Rates?

 

If you are experiencing financial difficulties and cannot afford to pay your Business Rates, you should contact the Enforcement Section immediately.

If you do not contact us, and continue to not make payment, action will be taken to recover any money outstanding. This will involve the issue of a Magistrates' Court summons, and could result in bailiff action, insolvency or even committal to prison.

I've received a summons.

 

15. I`ve received a summons. What happens now?

This leaflet tells you what happens if you receive a summons because your Business Rates are overdue and is available for you to read and download.

A bailiff has visited my premises.

 

The Council may decide to send a bailiff to your business if you owe Business Rates.

On the first visit the bailiff may either:

 

• List and levy distress to take possession of your goods, or
  
• Obtain a walking possession agreement allowing possession to take place at some later date, or
  
• Agree a payment arrangement which would clear the outstanding debt.
  

If the bailiff believes that your goods could be sold at auction to pay off the debt in full, he may decide to levy distress. This means the goods you own will be listed and you will be given 5 days to pay the outstanding amount, otherwise the goods will be removed. Usually, goods sold at auction will not raise the amount of money you may have paid for them, which may mean there will still be an outstanding balance to pay. Additional costs will be charged and will include the auctioneer’s fees.

Walking possession is an agreement that you must sign. This will then allow you to keep the goods the bailiff has listed on the Walking Possession Agreement providing you keep to the agreed payment arrangement. If you fail to keep to the arrangement the bailiff will call again to take possession (remove) of the goods listed on the agreement. On this occasion the bailiff has the right to force entry to the premises and charge further costs. The bailiff may accept payment in full from you. If the bailiff calls and you are not in he will leave a contact letter and charge you for the visit. You should either pay your bill in full, or contact the Enforcement Section, who will rearrange a further visit. You will also be able to discuss a payment arrangement with the Enforcement Section. If the bailiff has put his name and telephone number on the letter, you should contact him direct. Each time a bailiff visits, costs will be added to your account.

What goods can the bailiff remove?

 

The bailiffs can take any goods that you own other than any clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and food you need for your basic domestic needs or those of your family.

If you pay your debt, including all costs, before any goods are taken or sold, the seizure or sale will be stopped.

If you are leasing something or buying it on hire purchase you should provide proof to the bailiff and he will not list the items.

The bailiff should only list enough items that, when sold at auction, cover the amount of the debt and charges. However, your goods will not be worth as much as when you first bought them, which means the bailiff may take more than you would expect.

I have received a bankruptcy/liquidation demand.

 

If you owe debts amounting to over £750 to the Council and have failed to agree a payment plan we may start proceedings to make you bankrupt, or in the case of a Company, to force compulsory liquidation.

First we will send a statutory demand, if you do not pay in full within 21 days of the date of the demand the Council will present a petition for bankruptcy/liquidation in the County Court.

The Official Receiver is appointed to administer the insolvency, investigate financial affairs, freeze bank accounts and oversee the sale of assets. If you are a sole trader this could include the sale of your home and any other property you own & your business will close. As an undischarged bankrupt you will not be allowed be a Director of a Limited Company.

The costs inolved with such action are significant. You will no longer have control over your assets, you may be subject to a number of restrictions and the bankruptcy will stay on your credit file for at least 6 years, making it very difficult to obtain credit in the future.

Any documents you receive should not be ignored, as it will lead to a bankruptcy/liquidation petition and considerable costs. Your assets are at immediate risk if this happens.

To avoid bankruptcy/liquidation action you should contact the Enforcement Section.

Comprehensive advice of all matters of bankruptcy and liquidation can be obtained direct from the Insolvency Service, from the link to their website below

www.insolvency.gov.uk

Committal to Prison.

 

We will try to recover the outstanding debt by any of the means available to us but if we do not do so, we may decide to summons you to the Magistrates Court for a second time. This time we will ask the Magistrates to commit you to prison for non- payment.

Magistrates will conduct an enquiry into your means at the time the debt became due. You will be required to tell the Court of your income and how that income was spent. If the Courts find you guilty of wilful refusal to pay or culpable neglect then they may commit you to prison for up to 90 days.

If you do not appear at the Magistrates Court for this hearing we will obtain a warrant for your arrest which will incur substantial costs.

Warrant of Arrest.

 

If you have previously been summonsed to Court to answer the Council's application for your committal to prison for non-payment of rates and you fail to attend, the Magistrates may issue a Warrant for your arrest.

An authorised officer will be instructed to execute this Warrant of Arrest and will bail you to attend Court on a given date.

If you fail to attend the hearing in accordance with your notice of bail then a further Warrant may be issued. This Warrant will not have bail conditions attached and if arrested you will be taken to the Court cells where you will be detained until your case is heard.

If Warrants are issued you will incur additional costs, and if you fail to attend a hearing following bail then you may also be fined by the Court.

How you can help.

 

You can help by paying your Business Rates account when it is due. If you are unable to pay due to your current circumstances you should contact the Enforcement Section. In the interests of confidentiality and data protection you should quote your Business Rate account number.

[jaytb]

Many thanks for that,

so am I right in thinking, that the original council will not accept direct payment, and the bailiff will not accept my payment proposal,

so no matter what I pay they will still continue to send a bailiff round and keep adding £215 every time they do?

[ploddertom]

has the Bailiff left you any paperwork, if so what?

[sgtbush]

the 215 is the cost of issuing the warrant of distress, i take it you have had notice of this, 85 is admin fee, they are only charges the once however attending visit fees can be applied 3 times i think

[jaytb]

Yes, a letter saying;

"As you have failed to clear your outstanding fine, the court may shortly be considering issuing a warrant for your arrest.....

Unless the full amount is paid within 7 days, we may return this distress warrant to the court......

A Court Enforement Officer may attend your premises and arrest you on sight....."

[sgtbush]

the only way you would get the council to deal with this is if you can prove that you are a vunerable case and they would tell bailiffs to cease action, alternativly you could just wait until the 6 months is up on the warrant is up, the bailiffs would return it to the council as un-enforcable and then the council makes a decision on what they want to do

 

can i point out that its the councils guidelines on what the repayment arrangement will be, not the bailiffs. the council set down how long they are prepared to wait for the full money owing to be collected

so it might sound as if the bailiff company are setting high repayment rates but they are only acting on what the council want

i hope you get it sorted

[sgtbush]

Yes, a letter saying;

"As you have failed to clear your outstanding fine, the court may shortly be considering issuing a warrant for your arrest.....

Unless the full amount is paid within 7 days, we may return this distress warrant to the court......

A Court Enforement Officer may attend your premises and arrest you on sight....."

 

you are pretty far down the legal road, you really need to start to make some form of payment - even under a voluantary payment of what you can afford and do it regulary like each week or fortnight

it will be passed back as unenforced but were able to claim xxx pounds off it, the council will look at this more favorably as you have at least paid something towards it

however it is then up to the council with what futher action they want to do

[ploddertom]

Yes, a letter saying;

"As you have failed to clear your outstanding fine, the court may shortly be considering issuing a warrant for your arrest.....

Unless the full amount is paid within 7 days, we may return this distress warrant to the court......

A Court Enforement Officer may attend your premises and arrest you on sight....."

 

What Court? How much was the fine? I don't think this is NNDR but more to do with a criminal fine - TV Licence, motoring etc.

[jaytb]

Cheers Sgtbush,

so, they can add a £215 charge upto 3 times then?

I get the feeling the council are fobbing me off to the bailiff, but I am going to write to them again and ask if I can pay £50 a month,

and ask why they cannot accept that, the bailiff is wanting £240 a month, just impossible.

[sgtbush]

i think so, but someone will post the excat figures they can charge up im sure

 

do you know excatly what the fine is for?

as posted above, has he had a magistrates court fine?

[jaytb]

Hi Sgtbush,

I have paid £200 off the original £328.23,

but then they added on a visit,

so now it's back over £400.

[Conniff]

I'm a bit lost here, you haven't said what this debt is. You have gone from council tax to HMRC to business rates. It really would help if you could say what the actual debt is for ??

[jaytb]

I'm a bit lost here, you haven't said what this debt is. You have gone from council tax to HMRC to business rates. It really would help if you could say what the actual debt is for ??

 

Hi Conniff,

 

I apologise, my head is fried at the moment,

It's so old I just am not sure,

I have just found a red letter, it is a fine (sorry for the confusion guys),

I have just rang the fines people and they say it is so old they do not have any

details on what the original fine was, it could take 4 days to find out

or they said they may not be able to find any info on it.

 

Hope that helps a bit more.