Who to claim compensation from?

[Feebee_71]

I travelled to Wales by train last weekend on tickets booked through Virgin trains - the journey went like this..........

 

Home to London Waterloo - South West Trains

Waterloo to Euston - Northern Line

Euston to Birmingham New Street - Virgin Trains (fixed time departure - ticket only valid on train with reservation in numbered seat)

Birmingham New Street to final destination - Arriva Trains Wales (fixed time departure - ticket only valid on train with reserved seating but no numbered seat)

 

Coming back the planned journey was.............

 

Wales to Birmingham International - Arriva Trains Wales (fixed time departure - only valid on train with reserved seating but no numbered seat)

Birmingham International to Euston - Virgin Trains (fixed time departure - only valid on train with reservation in numbered seat)

Euston to Waterloo - London Underground

Waterloo to home - South West Trains

 

What actually happened on the journey home was this..............

 

Wales to Wolverhampton - Arriva Trains Wales. station is unmanned at weekends so no-one to ask why train is stopping at Wolverhampton and not going on to Birmingham International as it was supposed to be. On train guard very unhelpful and told me I'd have to get off at Wolverhampton and ask the startion staff there for help. When I asked if he knew why the trains weren't going through he said he had no idea and I'd have to ask the staff at Wolverhampton - he seemed very unwilling to be of any assistance.

 

This guard left the train at Shrewsbury and was replaced by another one who also didn't know what was happening.

 

At Wolverhampton I was told by a member of station staff that no trains were going from there to Birmingham International and that I should get the next train (Cross Country) to Birmingham New Street and continue my journey onward from there. I confirmed with them that this was possible given the type of train ticket I had and was told that this wouldn't be a problem. The train I was told to get was delayed by approximately 20 minutes and, by the time I arrived at Birmingham New Street, I had about 5 minutes to get from that station to Birmingham International where my train was due to leave for London.

 

I was advised to go to the travel centre where they should be able to help me. Thankfully they were able to get my ticket transferred to allow me to travel on the next train, which left Birmingham New Street at 19.34. We reached Birmingham International around 8:05pm so were running at least an hour late compared on what should have been my departure time from Birmingham International Station.

 

When I eventually got back to Euston it was approximately 9:40pm and my arrival time should have been somewhere around 8:20pm meaning I was more than 75 minutes late arriving.

 

What I want to know is who do I approach for compensation for the dalays to my journey? I believe the delay was as a direct result of Arriva Trains Wales terminating a service at Wolverhampton instead of going through to Birmingham International. There was no information on their website regarding the change of journey or that there were engineering works or problems on the line - in fact no-one seemed able to give any information whatsoever. From what I understand the train I was due to catch at Birmingham International left at the appointed time and so Virgin did not fail to provide their train so I don't believe the responsibility lies with them.

 

However, my ticket was bought through Virgin trains so I think I may have to claim through them.

 

Finally, if I claim through Virgin, the level of compensation is 25% of the fare and for Arriva Trains Wales the level of compensation for the same level of delay is 100% of the fare.

 

All advice welcome please,

 

Feebee_71

[Old-CodJA]

Any initial claim should be directed to the company to whom you paid your fare.

[Feebee_71]

Thanks Old-Codja,

 

Will prepare a letter to Virgin Trains and see what they say. What about sending tickets/copies of tickets? Is it ok to send copies?

[Old-CodJA]

Initially I would say 'Yes', but obviously you will need to hang on to the originals as they may request them if there are any issues.

[Feebee_71]

No problems - my concern was if I sent originals and only kept copies then it could prove problematic if it took more than one letter or if I had to write to the other TOC.

[RPI]

Did your journey involve two seperate tickets? i.e. did you have one single from Wales-Birmingham Intl then another ticket from Birmingham Intl-London or was it a through ticket? Either way the first port of call is with the operator who delayed you (Arriva)

[Old-CodJA]

Did your journey involve two seperate tickets? i.e. did you have one single from Wales-Birmingham Intl then another ticket from Birmingham Intl-London or was it a through ticket? Either way the first port of call is with the operator who delayed you (Arriva)

 

I'll be happy to be proved wrong on this one, if RPI has direct involvement & expertise in multi-TOC refunds as my primary expertise is with revenue protection & prosecution of offenders.

 

RPI may well be right, my gut instinct says the initial claim should be with the company to whom you paid, but as I say, I'll be very happy to learn otherwise.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[Feebee_71]

Hi RPI,

 

My ticket was from Newtown (Powys) to home station continuously. Printed tickets were one for entire journey labelled as such, one for Newtown - Birmingham International and the second from Birmingham International to London Euston. For the across London portion and the Waterloo - home portion I had to use the ticket labelled with the full journey.

 

The full journey was booked through Virgin but it was definitely not them who let me down.

 

Perhaps I will bite the bullet and send a copy of the same letter to both TOC's

 

Feebee_71

[RPI]

so you had a ticket from Newtown to your final destination? don't get reservations confused with the tickets, you would have one ticket which is for the journey then reservations for each leg of the journey, I think i'm right in saying that you should take up your claim with Arriva as they delayed you so i should write to them, as your complaint is with that operator. (although i may be wrong Old Codger) but i am 90% sure that is correct.

[Feebee_71]

Thanks for that RPI,

 

Yes, I had a ticket from Newtown to final destination, others were stating which trains they were valid on and contained details of my seat reservations (where applicable).

 

Feebee_71

[Old-CodJA]

Perhaps I will bite the bullet and send a copy of the same letter to both TOC'sFeebee_71

 

That cannot do any harm, good luck

[Feebee_71]

Thanks, will update when I hear anything back from either TOC!!

[sailor sam]

I used to live in Wolverhampton. I can tell you that all Wolverhampton to London Euston trains normally go via B-ham international. Not sure that a train from Wales goes further than B-ham New Street so surely you should of changed at either Wolverhampton or B-ham New Street. I cannot understand how B-ham International even figures in your journey.

[Feebee_71]

The train was definitely supposed to go to Birmingham International, even the guard agreed but didn't offer any reason why it was terminating at Wolverhampton. The reservation definitely says International as the arrival station!!

 

There was something going on around the Birmingham tracks as they took a completely different route from Wolverhampton to New Street than they had 2 days earlier. I didn't have an option of travelling via New Street on my way home other than by paying about 4 times what I did for my fare.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Feebee_71

[sailor sam]

The train was definitely supposed to go to Birmingham International, even the guard agreed but didn't offer any reason why it was terminating at Wolverhampton. The reservation definitely says International as the arrival station!!

 

I'm not saying it doesn't. What I am saying it is very unusual as most if not all trains between Wolverhampton and London Euston go via both B-ham New street and B-ham International. New Street is a main interchange where as B-ham International isn't. It is also quite a frequent service.

 

There was something going on around the Birmingham tracks as they took a completely different route from Wolverhampton to New Street than they had 2 days earlier. I didn't have an option of travelling via New Street on my way home other than by paying about 4 times what I did for my fare.

 

In your original post you said there was no engineering work etc which should of affected the journey. Even if it took a different route between W-ton and B-ham New Street (via Bescot no doubt), it would still stop at New Street and B-ham International.

 

Something has gone wrong here.

[RPI]

All of the trains from Abeystwyth (which call at Newtown) go through to Birmingham international, likewise quite a few of the Euston services start/terminate at Birmingham New Street, they don't all go to Wolves, the reason why the ticket would advise to change at International is to make life easier for the customer as there are less platforms to find etc, it's the same if you book tickets from say Taunton to Nottingham, most of the time you are advised to change at Cheltenham so that you a) avoid having to change at New Street b) it's the same platform. It also reduces the congestion at New Street.

[Feebee_71]

Hi Sam,

 

I think I said that when I asked why the vicio wasn't going to Birmingham as expected that the guard had no idea and I'd have to ask the staff at Wolverhampton; the staff at Wolverhampton could only tell me the no trains were going to Birmingham International station and I would have to go via New Street. I was not expecting to change trains at Wolverhampton merely to pass through it on my way to Birmingham International.

 

The train, although supposed to go to Birmingham International, didn't even in as far as New Street, it terminated at Wolverhampton.

 

I noticed the stations we went through between the 2 Birmingham stations included Perry Barr which it hadn't on the Saturday hence my comment about something going on as we used a different line.

 

Feebee_71

[Feebee_71]

Thanks again RPI, that is exactly the route I was on. Was concerned on my way up about being at the right point of the station as the train left from platform Xb and was due to split partway to Aberystwyth and 2 coaches continue to Aberystwyth and the other 2 to go North to Prestatyn. The last time I took one of those trains it split at Shrewsbury so I was already concerned that I would find myself in the wrong coach.

 

I thought going through International on the way back was the better station to travel through - in my non public transport user mind I thought it was/is the more substantial station around that city!!

 

Next time I may end up driving to Wales!!

 

Feebee_71

[sailor sam]

This sounds like a classic case of why de-regulating the railways was a disaster as far as Joe public was concerned. If different staff from different TOC's don't know whats going on further down the system, how is the public supposed to know? I travel the route between Wolves and the South Coast frequently so I know what it's like. In the OPs case, there must of been engineering works of some kind between Wolves and B-ham International which obviously the Aviva crew knew nothing about.

[Feebee_71]

Thought I'd update this thread...........

 

Received replies from both Virgin Trains and Arriva Trains Wales as follows.......

 

Virgin (who I had booked the tickets through) stated that, although my journey was booked through them, they were not the operators of the train that caused the disruption so therefore could not be held responsible for the delay to my journey and therefore were not responsible for providing me with any form of compensation. They went on to say they had passed my complaint on to the relevent operators for them to look into and provided me with the relevent contact details for Arriva Trains Wales customer service dept.

 

Arriva Trains Wales (who operated the train that I was travelling on and which terminated early causing my delay and disruptions to the journey) sent a letter that arrived yesterday and they apologised for the delay and that I had cause to contact them. Further they said they had investigated the cause of the problem and it lay with an earlier train suffering technical problems which led to a knock on effect for later trains on the same route.

 

They have agreed that, in line with their passenger charter, I am entitled to compensation for the delays and as a result they sent me national rail vouchers for the full cost of the single journey and wished that I would travel with them again in future and that, if I choose Arriva Trains Wales again, they hope my experience is a more pleasant one!!

 

I am happy with this outcome and am looking forward to the journey I will choose to take to use the voucher!!!

 

Feebee_71

[Grotesque]

LOL well done!!! What a palava though. At least ATW seem to have kept their sense of humour eh. As, indeed, have you! Which is not always possible in the BYZANTINE world of ATOC

[sailor sam]

Good result but i can't help thinking that Virgin were passing the buck. I think from a legal point of view, your contract was with them so legally despite what they say, they would of been the people you would of taken legal action against if necessary.

[Feebee_71]

Thanks Guys,

 

I was glad that I wrote to both the train operator of the train I was travelling on as well as the train operator I bought my ticket from - in some respects I'm glad it was Arriva Trains Wales who accepted liability to refund me because they offer compensation at 100% of fare price for delays totally 60 minutes or longer whereas Virgin Trains only offer 25% of fare price for the same delays!!

 

I am satisfied with the outcome and hope to travel to visit my friends again later in the year so will put the vouchers towards the cost of the fares!!

 

Feebee_71

[Old-CodJA]

Good result but i can't help thinking that Virgin were passing the buck. I think from a legal point of view, your contract was with them so legally despite what they say, they would of been the people you would of taken legal action against if necessary.

 

Yes I agree, but more importantly in this case, I am really pleased that you got the result you were looking for, well done.